Are there two gospels or ONE?

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T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#21
Aug 3, 2018
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#21
Absolutely said:
Except you left out the doalog at the last supper,which,in conjunction with the verses you cite places it IN HEAVEN.
You are misreading that sir
Click to expand...
You and I are simply not going to agree. I believe all instances of the phrase "the kingdom of the heavens" refers to an earthly location (not "UP IN Heaven [singular]"). It parallels also Daniel 7:27 [25 for its TIMING], which states "the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole heaven" [following after the "time times and the dividing of time" period of v.25 (i.e. following the 2nd half of trib)]

[involves His presence]
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#22
Jul 23, 2018
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#22
John146 said:
It doesn't matter the audience. If you are to preach the gospel to any audience today, you better preach the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins. That's the gospel unto salvation. The disciples, as I have shown, were not preaching that message. The message of the cross was not fully revealed until Paul.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

The death, burial and resurrection was not made known until it was fully given to Paul.
Click to expand...
I hear you.
You are partially right.

But to the Jew,we preach the Messiah has come,and incorporate their familliar ot verses. Tabermacle,passover,priesthood,prophecy.
Your average gentile knows nothing of those things,nor is taught to look for the messiah who has never come.
Their message should be "your messiah has come,and now has become our high priest.one sacrifice.The passover lamb"

One gospel,Jesus,presented 2 entirely different ways.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#23
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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#23
TheDivineWatermark said:
You and I are simply not going to agree. I believe all instances of the phrase "the kingdom of the heavens" refers to an earthly location (not "UP IN Heaven [singular]"). It parallels also Daniel 7:27 [25 for its TIMING], which states "the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole heaven" [following after the "time times and the dividing of time" period of v.25 (i.e. following the 2nd half of trib)]

[involves His presence]
Click to expand...
Again,the last supper dialog.
No guess work.
IN HEAVEN,not the sky
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#24
Jul 23, 2018
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#24
See how incorrect eschatology skews the panaramic view of the word?
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#25
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#25
John146 said:
When Jesus sent them out preaching the gospel of the kingdom, what was the message? What were the disciples preaching? The good news of what?
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That jesus died and rose again! Why are you asking me this, dont you know?
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#26
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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#26
EDIT: forgot to add to my post (the below):
Absolutely said:
Except you left out the doalog at the last supper,which,in conjunction with the verses you cite places it IN HEAVEN.
You are misreading that sir
Click to expand...
TDW:
You and I are simply not going to agree. I believe all instances of the phrase "the kingdom of the heavens" refers to an earthly location (not "UP IN Heaven [singular]"). It parallels also Daniel 7:27 [25 for its TIMING], which states "the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole heaven" [following after the "time times and the dividing of time" period of v.25 (i.e. following the 2nd half of trib)]

[involves His presence]
Click to expand...
...the part about the last supper... where Jesus, in Luke 22:30,16,18 said [v.16], "I will not any more eat thereof [see v.15], UNTIL IT BE FULFILLED in the kingdom of God... I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, UNTIL the kingdom of God SHALL COME" (SEE ALSO Matthew 26:29, which states, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, UNTIL THAT DAY when I drink it NEW WITH [G3326 - meta - accompanying] YOU in My Father's kingdom." [see also what I'd said elsewhere re: Matt13 and their later Q re: this, in Matt24:3]. And then see Matthew 19:28 [parallel to Matt25:31-34's TIMING] which states [parallel to the Luke 22:30,16,18 passage], "[WHEN...]… ye also shall sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel" (this is an earthly-located 12 thrones!)]

And then note 1Cor11:26's words (to,for,about "the Church which is His body"/US), "For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew/PROCLAIM the Lord's DEATH TILL HE COME" (that is, till He come in the Rapture FOR US--not His "return" to the earth), AT WHICH TIME [Rapture] we (the Church which is His body) will be CORPORATELY proclaiming something ELSE! ;) (beyond His "DEATH")
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#27
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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#27
Lanolin said:
That jesus died and rose again! Why are you asking me this, dont you know?
Click to expand...
In Matthew 3:2 and Matthew 4:17, Jesus and His disciples were not [yet] speaking anything regarding "that Jesus died and rose again!" (for He hadn't even told them about His death yet!)
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#28
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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#28
EDIT: I think John146 (poster) was referring to these passages (and its parallel) rather than the later thing He said to them following His resurrection (as I understand John146/poster... however, I could be mistaken on his intent! :D )



[CHRONOLOGY is at issue, here... which very often skews meaning/understanding]
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#29
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
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#29
TruthTalk said:
Hi John146, the gospel of Jesus Christ is clear. From the very beginning your gospel has gone fowl by bringing in all of your "additions" to the "True Gospel", You are preaching a counterfeit gospel and no more needs to said. Jesus Christ our Savior is the "True Gospel", and the "True Gospel" was preached by Jesus our Savior not the Apostle Paul. Your message is a counterfeit gospel through and through.

Matthew 4:14
From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near."
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So the gospel of grace in which Paul taught is a false gospel?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#30
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
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#30
Absolutely said:
Messiah is come.

No greater news could be forthcoming.
It was the good,no GREATEST, news ever
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The promised Messiah was prophesied to restore the earthy kingdom of David to the nation of Israel. That was good news to the Jews.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#31
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
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#31
Absolutely said:
I hear you.
You are partially right.

But to the Jew,we preach the Messiah has come,and incorporate their familliar ot verses. Tabermacle,passover,priesthood,prophecy.
Your average gentile knows nothing of those things,nor is taught to look for the messiah who has never come.
Their message should be "your messiah has come,and now has become our high priest.one sacrifice.The passover lamb"

One gospel,Jesus,presented 2 entirely different ways.
Click to expand...
The Jew today must trust the death, burial and resurrection of Christ for sins to be saved. The gospel message has to do with the preaching of words. We can not preach different words to different groups of people.
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#32
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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#32
EDIT (to add to my posts):

Romans 5:10 -

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by [means of] the death of his Son, much more, being [/having been] reconciled, we shall be saved by [en: in] his life.


2 Corinthians 5:18 -

And all things are of God, who hath [/having] reconciled us to himself by [means of] Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;


2 Corinthians 5:20 -

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#33
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
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#33
Lanolin said:
That jesus died and rose again! Why are you asking me this, dont you know?
Click to expand...
The disciples were preaching the death, burial and resurrection of Christ even though they didn’t know about it themselves? This is not the case.
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#35
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
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#35
John146 said:
It doesn't matter the audience. If you are to preach the gospel to any audience today, you better preach the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins. That's the gospel unto salvation. The disciples, as I have shown, were not preaching that message. The message of the cross was not fully revealed until Paul.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

The death, burial and resurrection was not made known until it was fully given to Paul.
Click to expand...
Obviously the audience mattered to God........He gave 4 gospel accounts with emphasis on what those audiences would best understand. To a Gentile audience a Jewish geneology would be meaningless and visa-versa. etc etc etc
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#36
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
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#36
GraceAndTruth said:
Obviously the audience mattered to God........He gave 4 gospel accounts with emphasis on what those audiences would best understand. To a Gentile audience a Jewish geneology would be meaningless and visa-versa. etc etc etc
Click to expand...
If you were witnessing to a Jew today, what is the message you would share with him?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#37
Jul 18, 2017
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#37
Hevosmies said:
Is the gospel of the kingdom different from the gospel of grace Paul preached?
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It is the same Gospel, since there is only one Gospel. The ultimate objective of the Gospel is to bring souls into the Kingdom of God. As long as the King-Messiah Jesus of Nazareth was on earth it was preached as the Gospel of the Kingdom. After that it was identified as the Gospel of God, and in several other ways, including *the everlasting Gospel*.

At present, the Kingdom is within you, but after the second coming of Christ, the Kingdom of God will be established on the earth and all the kingdoms of this world will be destroyed. At that point Christ will be King of kings and Lord of lords, and every knee will bow to Him.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#39
#39
There are 4 like the arms of the Milky Way.


Luke24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
 
Marcelo

Marcelo

Senior Member
#40
Feb 4, 2016
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#40
Hevosmies said:
Is the gospel of the kingdom different from the gospel of grace Paul preached?
Click to expand...
Yes, it is different:

Jesus says:

Matt.19 - [29] And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

Luke.14 - [28] For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?[33] So therefore, whoever of you does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple.

Paul says:

Rom.6 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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