Are we in the end times ?

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ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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The Resurrection/Rapture is ONE event and the two phases are separated by nanoseconds.
Two things separated means two separate events.

The resurrection of the dead in Christ happens FIRST. It is completed before anyone is raptured. Yes, there's a small amount of time inbetween but it's still two very different events.
 

Hann57

Junior Member
Jan 2, 2018
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To answer in the simplest form: Jesus Christ - The Son of the Living God. However, the subject is far more complex. How does one KNOW that they are in Christ? What Jesus Christ do they believe in?

Most people, in this world know of the "historical" Christ. Through stories or movies about His life. Even the Muslims recognize the historical Christ but their knowledge of Him is flawed. Many religionist today, teach a simplified Christ. Just walk the aisle and confess his name and be baptized. Often this is not genuine faith in the Savior but a temporary exercise of the flesh.

To know Christ is to know the Jesus Christ of the Bible. His Person and Work. His Divinity and Impeccable Humanity. He is the Word, the Great I Am, the Covenant Lord of Israel and the Lord of the New Covenant, which is in His Blood. To know one is in Christ, is to except everything said about Christ in all of Holy Scripture. If one rejects any part of Scripture about His Holy Character or His Work, then that one is none of His. (Rom. 8:9) Therefore, to have great assurance that one is in Christ, that one must study to learn all there is to know about Him.

For instance - a few questions:

1) Did Christ have his beginning from the virgin birth or from all eternity?
2) Is Christ the incarnate second Person of the Godhead?
3) Is Christ God?
4) Is Christ the Creator of all things?
5) Is Christ both fully God and fully man?
6) Is Christ's Nature's impeccable or peccable?
7) Did Christ die for everyone or the Sheep?

How one answers these questions will show whether they know the Christ of the Bible or some manmade perversion of Christ.

As Romans 8:9 indicated, one cannot know Jesus Christ if they have not the Spirit of Christ. When Adam fell and we all fell in him, mankind became spiritually "dead" or depraved. Everyone of us come into the world at enmity with God. We are sinners and love sin because our fallen nature loves sin. We cannot please God and have NO DESIRE to have God in our lives. Therefore, we cannot come to Christ in our fallen state because it would be against our nature.

John_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John_6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


This being the case, every believer must be "Born Again". (John 3:1-10). In this new birth, a person is given a "new heart" (Ezek. 11:19; 36:26; Mat. 9:17), he becomes a "new man" (2 Cor. 5:17) and is given a God given "faith" (Eph. 2:8). This enables the person to move towards God and believe on Jesus Christ. (Thus, "given unto him of my Father", in John 6:44&65). This is the Sovereign Work of the Holy Spirit, who comes at the appointed time and dwells in the believer. Thus, having our nature changed, our will is changed towards the things of God and not away from them. Without these things, it is impossible to please God. (Rom. 8:8) Impossible to know God (Rom. 1:20-23; 1 Cor. 2:12, 14). Will not seek God. (Rom. 3:10-18)

Therefore, God - the Father - enables every single person, through the Holy Spirit, to come to the Biblical Christ and none other.

Having been "Regenerated", (New Birth), the believer begins his/her "Conversion" experience. With the aid of the Holy Spirit, who guides our thoughts and aids our prayers, we grow in Grace and knowledge of our Lord and day by day put on Christ and put off the "old man". We do battle with the flesh, which means we hate sin - especially our own sins. We fight for the Truth of the Gospel and all of God's revelation and will not tolerate any attempt to diminish the Person and Work of our dear Lord, Jesus Christ.

To many, today, want the benefits of Christ's Work in Salvation, or the power of the Spirit but they care not for the True Person of Jesus Christ. The Holy and Perfect, Impeccable God-Man. The Lamb of God, without Spot or Blemish.
For anyone to be saved they need to believe the gospel given to Paul by Christ.
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
This is the gospel you need to believe to be saved.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
The moment you believe this gospel you are saved and sealed, according to the scriptures.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
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London
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LOL, Laura, I have to say I love you in the Lord, and I welcome you to present our differences. I know where your heart is now, I know that we can discuss those things in the spirit of the Lord. No matter what differences we have, it really doesn't matter, we are both saved by grace through faith, and though we may differ, you are and always will be my Sister in Christ!

Already had my 5 cups of coffee, so I'm ready Sister, let the games begin, lol!

I don't know what is going to happen between now and the Lord coming, I'm pretty sure no one does.

If the authors of scripture knew they sure didn't tell us in scripture. Of course, they were not told either, that's why it's the grey area, we are all guessing when we say this or that will happen between now and the Lord's coming.

But I do know this, the scripture tells us time after time to believe and do the things that increase our faith, if not, the door is open for the Great Deceiver to do to us what he did to Adam.
Jesus makes it very clear what conditions will be like just prior to His return.

We will be hated by all for His name sake

The persecution will be so awful that children will deliver their parents up to death and parents their children, has there ever yet been such a persecution?, no.

People say that's for the Jews but it cannot be for if Jewish parents give up their children to death because they are Jews they will be delivering themselves up also, likewise the children, to give up their parents as Jews is to admit that they themselves are Jews.

No this is persecution of the church, we are told to flee persecution, but if we are hated by all men where will we flee to?

Jesus said this is the worst tribulation [persecution] since ever there was a nation and never will be again.

"In the world you will have tribulation" that is where tribulation comes from. It is not God's wrath.
 
Jun 12, 2021
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Jesus makes it very clear what conditions will be like just prior to His return.

We will be hated by all for His name sake

The persecution will be so awful that children will deliver their parents up to death and parents their children, has there ever yet been such a persecution?, no.

People say that's for the Jews but it cannot be for if Jewish parents give up their children to death because they are Jews they will be delivering themselves up also, likewise the children, to give up their parents as Jews is to admit that they themselves are Jews.

No this is persecution of the church, we are told to flee persecution, but if we are hated by all men where will we flee to?

Jesus said this is the worst tribulation [persecution] since ever there was a nation and never will be again.

"In the world you will have tribulation" that is where tribulation comes from. It is not God's wrath.
I pray this world will end faster. So sin, suffering and the flesh will be gone forever. Than I can experience full blast of the love, joy and all attributes of God forever. I can endure all things through Christ.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
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Uh huh. I guess I have your approval then. :cool:
I have actually tacked those things on to some of your posts in order to give you a taste of your own medicine.

Those things don't count.
 

Hann57

Junior Member
Jan 2, 2018
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I pray this world will end faster. So sin, suffering and the flesh will be gone forever. Than I can experience full blast of the love, joy and all attributes of God forever. I can endure all things through Christ.
If you are saved our lives are hid in Christ Jesus and the world does not or should not effect us to shake our faith.
Php_4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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For anyone to be saved they need to believe the gospel given to Paul by Christ.
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
This is the gospel you need to believe to be saved.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
The moment you believe this gospel you are saved and sealed, according to the scriptures.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Your argument leads out with this statement: "For anyone to be saved they need to believe the gospel given to Paul by Christ."

If taken literally - you would at best, be walking on dangerous ground, to limit the Gospel to just Paul. As Paul himself said to the Corinthians:

1Co 3:1-7 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ. I fed you with milk, not with meat; for ye were not yet able to bear it: nay, not even now are ye able; for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men? For when one says, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not men? What then is Apollos? and what is Paul? Ministers through whom ye believed; and each as the Lord gave to him. I planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that plants anything, neither he that waters; but God that giveth the increase.

The Apostle Paul was Jesus Christ's Apostle. It is all about Christ!!! You borderline on being an Apostle Paul worshipper. To hold Paul's epistles, in higher esteem, than the Word's spoken by our Lord, is nothing short of Heresy.

If one is saved by "only" what Paul was inspired to write, then How were the Old Testament Saints saved?

 

Patnubay

Senior Member
May 27, 2014
498
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I have never come across an explanation of “these last days” referring to nearly 2,000 years of history that doesn’t stretch credulity beyond the breaking point. That’s longer than the entire history of Israel from Abraham to Jesus.

It makes far more sense to me that “these last days” refers to the last days of ancient Israel and Levitical Judaism, not of humanity as a whole. All of the temporal indications are synonymous with “very soon”. Only on a (secular) geological timescale would 2,000 years be described as “very soon”.
I agree. The "terrible times" quoted in 2Tim 3:1-5 were present in Timothy's times and are still now. "End times" is more likely the last days of a specific era than humanity as a whole.
 

Hann57

Junior Member
Jan 2, 2018
270
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Your argument leads out with this statement: "For anyone to be saved they need to believe the gospel given to Paul by Christ."

If taken literally - you would at best, be walking on dangerous ground, to limit the Gospel to just Paul. As Paul himself said to the Corinthians:

1Co 3:1-7 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ. I fed you with milk, not with meat; for ye were not yet able to bear it: nay, not even now are ye able; for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men? For when one says, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not men? What then is Apollos? and what is Paul? Ministers through whom ye believed; and each as the Lord gave to him. I planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that plants anything, neither he that waters; but God that giveth the increase.

The Apostle Paul was Jesus Christ's Apostle. It is all about Christ!!! You borderline on being an Apostle Paul worshipper. To hold Paul's epistles, in higher esteem, than the Word's spoken by our Lord, is nothing short of Heresy.

If one is saved by "only" what Paul was inspired to write, then How were the Old Testament Saints saved?
2Ti_2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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2Ti_2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
You love to quote verses but you do not like answering questions do you?

1Pe 3:15 but sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord: being ready always to give answer to every man that asketh you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, yet with meekness and fear:
1Pe 3:16 having a good conscience; that, wherein ye are spoken against, they may be put to shame who revile your good manner of life in Christ.
 

Hann57

Junior Member
Jan 2, 2018
270
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You love to quote verses but you do not like answering questions do you?

1Pe 3:15 but sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord: being ready always to give answer to every man that asketh you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, yet with meekness and fear:
1Pe 3:16 having a good conscience; that, wherein ye are spoken against, they may be put to shame who revile your good manner of life in Christ.
1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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I agree. The "terrible times" quoted in 2Tim 3:1-5 were present in Timothy's times and are still now. "End times" is more likely the last days of a specific era than humanity as a whole.
I agree with you. The end times are certainly a period of time wherein the prophecies find their fulfillment. Over the past two-thousand years, many of these things (False prophets, anti-Christs, persecution and so on), have been occurring but they all find their crescendo in the Tribulation days. Like in music, this ever increasing "lawlessness" grows louder and louder.

However, we do not want to think of two-thousand years as a long time. As Peter said: 2Pet_3:8 But forget not this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Peter reminds us of Lord's "perspective" as the eternal God. From the Lord's perspective - all of human history is a mere blink of an eye. Two-thousand years may seem long to that which is "finite" but not to that which is "infinite".

I believe we are in the last days because of the "loudness" of the music. The days proceeding the Great and terrible days of our God, who will come to judge the world. While "signs" were given to the Jews, both in the OT prophecies and by our Lord, in His earthly ministry, the church is not looking for signs. However, we know that the Lord will not return until "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in". That is a promise, in the Words of Inspired Scripture but none can know the time of this last Gentile. Having said all of that, we do know of the "signs" leading-up too the Tribulation days and many of them are yet to take place.

In these days, which we now live, I believe, that the following, is the most troubling and relevant sign of the times, for Christ's Assembly and every faithful witness:

2Ti 4:3, 4 For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables.

1Ti 6:3-5 If any man is teaching a different doctrine, and consents not to sound words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; he is puffed up, knowing nothing, but doting about questionings and disputes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil conjectures, wrangling of men corrupted in mind and bereft of the truth, supposing that godliness is a way of gain.

That time is now.

 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
More verses just thrown into the air.

Let's talk Doctrine shall we? The doctrine of Soteriology. I will start with a question - Who will be saved? Paul clearly tells us and so does Jesus Christ.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
We are in the latter days, I believe!
 
O

Oblio

Guest
Since the subject at hand is the Antichrist, I think that it would have been wise for you to clarify that the scripture that you are quoting is in reference to Jesus Christ.
ewq1938 said that the Lord is in charge of everything and you disagreed. I quoted Daniel to show that He is.
 

JTB

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Aug 31, 2021
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I pray this world will end faster. So sin, suffering and the flesh will be gone forever. Than I can experience full blast of the love, joy and all attributes of God forever. I can endure all things through Christ.
I'm ready to cut to the chase
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
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If you are saved our lives are hid in Christ Jesus and the world does not or should not effect us to shake our faith.
Huh?

What about all this:

To deceive the elect.jpg
 

glen55

Active member
Jul 10, 2021
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It is always repeated, doing the same things under the sun, Ecclesiastes 3:15: “That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been; and God seeks what has been driven away.” The “natural man” cannot grasp that, for to him reality is based only on the evidence of the senses. The man of reason could justify the verse’s end, saying if it has any meaning then the writer must mean recurrence. The sun comes every day and the moon completes its cycle and the seasons come and go. If we took a picture of the universe today, the scientists can compute how long it will take to return to this point in the picture. So the intellectual man could justify the verse; but that is not what is meant, for it is addressed not to the man of reason or the man of sense, but to the man of Imagination. What is it all about? “That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been, and God seeks what has been driven away.”