Are we in the end times ?
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The "time of the Gentiles" is long past. It involved the time when "Jerusalem was trodden under foot" in A.D. 70 by the Roman armies. The timing of Luke 21 is clear. When those very disciples saw ALL those things begin to place, they would know that His kingdom was NEAR. JESUS SAID--"THIS generation will not pass away until all has taken place" (21:32). THEY (those very disciples) were instructed by JESUS to "stay awake at all times, praying that YOU may have strength to escape ALL THESE THINGS that are ABOUT TO take place" (vs. 36).
The timing of the "time of the Gentiles" was in THAT first-century generation--A.D. 70!
The timing of the "time of the Gentiles" was in THAT first-century generation--A.D. 70!
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The Lord's Elect will be gathered together from all heavens and the earth (Mark 13:23). What happened in 70AD? Up to a million Jews were slaughtered and captured, and then scattered all over the world. This is laughable. We don't even know if all of those disciples had lived at least 40 additional years till 70AD. What if one of them was martyred before 70AD? This kind of preterism interpretation doesn't hold water.
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Jesus cursing of the fig tree reveals His judgment upon apostate Israel. If there was ever any FIG TREE GENERATION, it was the one Jesus condemned in Matthew 23--that generation of Jews of HIS day. Just as He cursed and destroyed the fig tree, He would SOON, in THAT generation, destroy THAT nation of Israel in A.D. 70 through the Roman armies. Revelation 6:13 depicts nothing more than a figurative picture of what the symbolic stars of the sky looked like when they fell. All of this is symbolic--no surprise since it is found in a book FULL of symbolism. You are making too much of the FIG TREE. It is simple a symbol used to depict an event.
Even if one of the disciples died before A.D. 70, he still arose at the coming of Jesus when Christ emptied Hades of all the righteous and unrighteous dead. You do not understand the issue of "gathering." The hope of Israel was rescue from Sheol/Hades. When Christ came in THAT generation, He judged the living and the dead after He emptied Hades and gather His elect to Himself. This is the promise He gave to His disciples in John 14. He would return to THEM in their LIFETIME and gather them to Himself that where He was they would be also. This is the same gathering spoken of in Matthew 24. In both Matthew 24 and Mark 13, the timing is given--THAT VERY GENERATION.
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In Acts 1:11 angels promised that He'll come in "like manner" that he was being taken up. Nowhere does it indicate that Jesus met them in Hades. In John 14 those "many mansions" are in heaven, that was a subtle reference of the local custom that the bridegroom will build a house adjacent to his father's house for his bride after engagement.
All you keep repeating is "that generation", "that generation", "that generation". You know what Jesus told them to do? "Make disciples of ALL THE NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Last two versions in Matthew, known as the GREAT COMMISSION. No "coming" until that job is done, Matt. 24:14.
All you keep repeating is "that generation", "that generation", "that generation". You know what Jesus told them to do? "Make disciples of ALL THE NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Last two versions in Matthew, known as the GREAT COMMISSION. No "coming" until that job is done, Matt. 24:14.
The GREAT COMMISSION was fulfilled in that first-century generation.
- Acts 2:5 “Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.”
- Colossians 1:5-6 “For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit”
- Colossians 1:23 “This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.”
- Romans 1:8 “I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. “
- Romans 10:18 “Their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the end of the world “
- 1Timothy 3:16 “He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.”
- Romans 15:19 “Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.”
The "like manner" of Acts 1 involves the CLOUDS. He did not return in LIKE manner as you see it. Where was "every eye" and where were the trumpet sounds, etc.? Clouds represent God's power, glory, and presence. He plainly told Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin that THEY would see His coming in the CLOUDS (Matthew 26:64). Whom was Jesus explicitly addressing in John 14? Not US. It was those disciples whose hearts were troubled. They had lived with Him, walked Him, talked with Him, slept beside Him, ate with Him, etc. for THREE years. They LOVED Him. NONE of us will ever experience the pain they experienced. He was going to leave THEM. They were heartbroken. He promised THEM that He would return to THEM and bring THEM unto Himself. This coordinates with Paul's words in 1 Thessalonians 4 and Matthew 24:29 and following. He was going to come to them--the dead in Hades would rise first and then those who were alive would all be gathered together in one body in Christ in the New Covenant Church of God. This was the Bride at His coming in A.D. 70!
When Jesus died, like all men, He went to Hades. That was the destiny of everyone. He overcame Hades. This was the hope of Israel, the hope of resurrection. Resurrection is not the hope of the Church. Paul was imprisoned for that hope. At His coming, He freed ALL from Hades, both the just and the unjust. The just were gathered to Him and the unjust were cast out (the sheep and the goats; the wheat the dross). As a result, since that time all believers die and go immediately into His presence. If He has not yet come, NO ONE goes to heaven.
I keep repeating THIS generation and will continue to repeat THIS generation until it is acknowledged that Jesus meant the time frame of HIS contemporaries and nothing else. It is a solemn thing to misrepresent HIS words.
PTL. Few stand there. = )
Oh, I see it alright.
I would just point out that each of these two distinct words / ideas must be understood within the context of their own sentences they are used in.
Verse 1 is not verse 3, for example.
--v.1 "...to SHOW unto His servants things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (not EVERYTHING in this book in its entirety is talking about the "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"... there's also the 1:19a and 1:19b things that John was ALSO to "WRITE"); rather, vv.1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 connect;
--v.3 concerns "he that READETH"... "the WORDS of this prophecy"... "KEEP [/guard] those things which are WRITTEN THEREIN"
All you are doing is "lumping things together" (that SEEM to you to be the same [for example, thinking G5034 IS G5035... or that v.1 is EQUATED with v.3]) which are actually distinct things.
The word here ^ is "tachu / tachy [G5035 - adv]" (not "tachos [G5034 - noun]").
Here's what the Bible Hub page has to say about this "G5035 - tachu / tachy [adv]" word:
[quoting from the BH page]
HELPS Word-studies
5035 taxý (an adjective, used adverbially, and derived from 5036 /taxýs, "promptly") – properly, swift (quick), without unnecessary delay; used of God's promptness characterizing how He has ordered all physical scenes of life to happen on His perfect timetable without unnecessary "delay" (Rev 1:1, 22:6).
[5035 (taxý) does not mean "immediately" or necessarily "in a very short time" but rather "without any delay."]
-- https://biblehub.com/greek/5035.htm
[end quoting]
____________
Hope that helps you (and the readers of this thread) to see my perspective (which is the "futurist" [not "Preterist"] perspective = ) )
Oh, I see it alright.
I would just point out that each of these two distinct words / ideas must be understood within the context of their own sentences they are used in.
Verse 1 is not verse 3, for example.
--v.1 "...to SHOW unto His servants things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (not EVERYTHING in this book in its entirety is talking about the "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"... there's also the 1:19a and 1:19b things that John was ALSO to "WRITE"); rather, vv.1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 connect;
--v.3 concerns "he that READETH"... "the WORDS of this prophecy"... "KEEP [/guard] those things which are WRITTEN THEREIN"
All you are doing is "lumping things together" (that SEEM to you to be the same [for example, thinking G5034 IS G5035... or that v.1 is EQUATED with v.3]) which are actually distinct things.
The word here ^ is "tachu / tachy [G5035 - adv]" (not "tachos [G5034 - noun]").
Here's what the Bible Hub page has to say about this "G5035 - tachu / tachy [adv]" word:
[quoting from the BH page]
HELPS Word-studies
5035 taxý (an adjective, used adverbially, and derived from 5036 /taxýs, "promptly") – properly, swift (quick), without unnecessary delay; used of God's promptness characterizing how He has ordered all physical scenes of life to happen on His perfect timetable without unnecessary "delay" (Rev 1:1, 22:6).
[5035 (taxý) does not mean "immediately" or necessarily "in a very short time" but rather "without any delay."]
-- https://biblehub.com/greek/5035.htm
[end quoting]
____________
Hope that helps you (and the readers of this thread) to see my perspective
(which is the "futurist" [not "Preterist"] perspective = ) )Re: the phrase "this generation," consider also a post I made in the past:
[quoting old post]
[quoting Wm Kelly on Luke 21:32's "this generation shall not pass away, TILL ALL be fulfilled [/shall have taken place]" (helpful when considering Matt24:34's on same Subject) which verse's context [re Lk21] MUST NECESSARILY INCLUDE v.24's items, which had already just been mentioned (thus, INCLUDED in this "ALL" word), most of which are of lengthy duration (note v.24's "UNTIL" also!); note Wm Kelly's Commentary per BibleHub... quoting below]
"But, this is not the only point of interest in this appendix to the prophecy. For the Lord has given us the positive proof. by the way in which verse 32 stands here, that "this generation" cannot mean a mere chronological space of thirty or even one hundred years, for it is brought in after the running out of Gentile times and the coming of the Son of man with power and glory, events still unfulfilled. Its force is moral; not exactly the nation of Israel but that Christ-rejecting race which then refused their Messiah as they do still. This will go on till all these solemn threats of judgment are accomplished. It is profitable to remark that here, not in doctrine or in practice only, but in these unfoldings of the future, the Lord pledges the impossibility of failing in His words. The Lord does not say that this generation "shall not pass away till the temple is destroyed or the city taken, but till all be fulfilled. Now, He had introduced the subsequent treading down of Jerusalem to the end of Israel's trials at His appearing, and He declares that this generation shall not pass away till then; as indeed it is only then grace will form a new generation, the generation to come. The more we hold fast the continuity of the stream of the prophecy, as distinguished from the crisis in Matthew and Mark, the greater will be seen to be the importance of this remark."
--William Kelly, commentary on Luke 21
Luke 21 William Kelly Major Works Commentary (biblehub.com) [see also note 522a at bottom]
[quoting Wm Kelly on your Matt24:34, taken from BibleHub]
""When its branch has now become tender and the leaves are shooting, ye know that summer is nigh; so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is nigh by the doors" (i.e., the end of this [/the] age, and the beginning of the next [age] under Messiah and the new covenant). But solemnly the Saviour warns that "this generation," this Christ-rejecting race in Israel, shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled!
"The notion that all was fulfilled in the past siege of Jerusalem, founded on a narrow and unscriptural sense of this passage, is from not hearing what the Lord says to the disciples. By the term "generation" in a genealogy (as Matt. 1), or where the context requires it (as Luke 1:50), a life-time no doubt is meant: but where is it so used in the prophetic Scriptures - the Psalms, etc.? The meaning herein is moral rather than chronological; as, for instance, in Psalm 12:7, "Thou shalt keep them, O Lord; Thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." The words "for ever" prove a prolonged force; and accordingly the passage intimates that Jehovah shall preserve the godly from their lawless oppressors, "from this generation for ever." It is a distinct and conclusive refutation of those who would limit the phrase to the short epoch of a man's lifetime. So, in Deuteronomy 32:5; Deu 32:20, we find generation similarly used, not to convey a period, but to express the moral characteristics of Israel. Again, in the Psalms we have "the generation to come," which is not confined to a mere term of thirty or a hundred years. So also in Proverbs 30:11-14: "There is a generation that curseth their father. . . There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes," etc., where the character of certain classes is considered; even plainer, if possible, is the usage in the synoptic Gospels. Thus, in Matthew 11:16, "Whereunto shall I liken this generation?" means such as then lived, characterized by the moral capriciousness which set them in opposition to God's testimony, whatever it might be, in righteousness or in grace. But evidently, though people then alive are primarily in view, the moral identity of the same features might extend indefinitely, and so from age to age it would still be "this generation." Compare Matthew 12:39; Mat 12:41-42; Mat 12:45, which last verse shows the unity of the "generation" in its final judgment (not yet exhausted) with that which emerged from the Babylonish captivity. Again, note chapter 23: 36, "Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation" - a generation which would continue till all the predictions of judgment that Christ uttered shall be fulfilled (chap. 24: 34). As it is plain from what has been already shown, that much remains to be accomplished, "this generation" still subsists, and will, till all is over. And how true it is! Here are the Jews - the wonder of every thoughtful mind - not merely a broken, scattered, and withal perpetuated race; not only distinct, spite of mighty effort from without to blot them out, and from within to amalgamate with others, but with the same unbelief, rejection and scorn of Jesus their Messiah as on the day He pronounced their sentence. All these things - speaking of their earlier and their latest sorrows - should come to pass before that wicked generation shall disappear. "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." That which incredulity counts most stable, the scene of its idolatry or )f its self-exaltation, shall vanish; but the words of Christ, let them be about Israel or others, shall abide for ever."
[end quoting Wm Kelly; bold, underline and bracketed inserts mine; parentheses original]
____________
[note: the Olivet Discourse is covering the Subject of the future tribulation period FOLLOWING "our Rapture," except for about 12 or so verses in Luke 21:12-24 which cover the 70ad events, now past-history from our perspective... this means that there are TWO DISTINCT "SEE-then-FLEE" incidents being spoken of, one in the 70ad events, the other far-future (from when written/spoken) which is also "future" to "our Rapture" event, with that (their [*future*] "SEE-then-FLEE") occurring at mid-trib, when 1260 days will be remaining until His Second Coming to the earth--many will come to faith IN/WITHIN/DURING those 7 trib years (FOLLOWING "our Rapture"), so this passage is not saying many of Israel won't be coming to faith throughout the trib yrs... many indeed WILL BE, just to be clear.]
[end quoting old post]
[quoting old post]
[quoting Wm Kelly on Luke 21:32's "this generation shall not pass away, TILL ALL be fulfilled [/shall have taken place]" (helpful when considering Matt24:34's on same Subject) which verse's context [re Lk21] MUST NECESSARILY INCLUDE v.24's items, which had already just been mentioned (thus, INCLUDED in this "ALL" word), most of which are of lengthy duration (note v.24's "UNTIL" also!); note Wm Kelly's Commentary per BibleHub... quoting below]
"But, this is not the only point of interest in this appendix to the prophecy. For the Lord has given us the positive proof. by the way in which verse 32 stands here, that "this generation" cannot mean a mere chronological space of thirty or even one hundred years, for it is brought in after the running out of Gentile times and the coming of the Son of man with power and glory, events still unfulfilled. Its force is moral; not exactly the nation of Israel but that Christ-rejecting race which then refused their Messiah as they do still. This will go on till all these solemn threats of judgment are accomplished. It is profitable to remark that here, not in doctrine or in practice only, but in these unfoldings of the future, the Lord pledges the impossibility of failing in His words. The Lord does not say that this generation "shall not pass away till the temple is destroyed or the city taken, but till all be fulfilled. Now, He had introduced the subsequent treading down of Jerusalem to the end of Israel's trials at His appearing, and He declares that this generation shall not pass away till then; as indeed it is only then grace will form a new generation, the generation to come. The more we hold fast the continuity of the stream of the prophecy, as distinguished from the crisis in Matthew and Mark, the greater will be seen to be the importance of this remark."
--William Kelly, commentary on Luke 21
Luke 21 William Kelly Major Works Commentary (biblehub.com) [see also note 522a at bottom]
[quoting Wm Kelly on your Matt24:34, taken from BibleHub]
""When its branch has now become tender and the leaves are shooting, ye know that summer is nigh; so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is nigh by the doors" (i.e., the end of this [/the] age, and the beginning of the next [age] under Messiah and the new covenant). But solemnly the Saviour warns that "this generation," this Christ-rejecting race in Israel, shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled!
"The notion that all was fulfilled in the past siege of Jerusalem, founded on a narrow and unscriptural sense of this passage, is from not hearing what the Lord says to the disciples. By the term "generation" in a genealogy (as Matt. 1), or where the context requires it (as Luke 1:50), a life-time no doubt is meant: but where is it so used in the prophetic Scriptures - the Psalms, etc.? The meaning herein is moral rather than chronological; as, for instance, in Psalm 12:7, "Thou shalt keep them, O Lord; Thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." The words "for ever" prove a prolonged force; and accordingly the passage intimates that Jehovah shall preserve the godly from their lawless oppressors, "from this generation for ever." It is a distinct and conclusive refutation of those who would limit the phrase to the short epoch of a man's lifetime. So, in Deuteronomy 32:5; Deu 32:20, we find generation similarly used, not to convey a period, but to express the moral characteristics of Israel. Again, in the Psalms we have "the generation to come," which is not confined to a mere term of thirty or a hundred years. So also in Proverbs 30:11-14: "There is a generation that curseth their father. . . There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes," etc., where the character of certain classes is considered; even plainer, if possible, is the usage in the synoptic Gospels. Thus, in Matthew 11:16, "Whereunto shall I liken this generation?" means such as then lived, characterized by the moral capriciousness which set them in opposition to God's testimony, whatever it might be, in righteousness or in grace. But evidently, though people then alive are primarily in view, the moral identity of the same features might extend indefinitely, and so from age to age it would still be "this generation." Compare Matthew 12:39; Mat 12:41-42; Mat 12:45, which last verse shows the unity of the "generation" in its final judgment (not yet exhausted) with that which emerged from the Babylonish captivity. Again, note chapter 23: 36, "Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation" - a generation which would continue till all the predictions of judgment that Christ uttered shall be fulfilled (chap. 24: 34). As it is plain from what has been already shown, that much remains to be accomplished, "this generation" still subsists, and will, till all is over. And how true it is! Here are the Jews - the wonder of every thoughtful mind - not merely a broken, scattered, and withal perpetuated race; not only distinct, spite of mighty effort from without to blot them out, and from within to amalgamate with others, but with the same unbelief, rejection and scorn of Jesus their Messiah as on the day He pronounced their sentence. All these things - speaking of their earlier and their latest sorrows - should come to pass before that wicked generation shall disappear. "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." That which incredulity counts most stable, the scene of its idolatry or )f its self-exaltation, shall vanish; but the words of Christ, let them be about Israel or others, shall abide for ever."
[end quoting Wm Kelly; bold, underline and bracketed inserts mine; parentheses original]
____________
[note: the Olivet Discourse is covering the Subject of the future tribulation period FOLLOWING "our Rapture," except for about 12 or so verses in Luke 21:12-24 which cover the 70ad events, now past-history from our perspective... this means that there are TWO DISTINCT "SEE-then-FLEE" incidents being spoken of, one in the 70ad events, the other far-future (from when written/spoken) which is also "future" to "our Rapture" event, with that (their [*future*] "SEE-then-FLEE") occurring at mid-trib, when 1260 days will be remaining until His Second Coming to the earth--many will come to faith IN/WITHIN/DURING those 7 trib years (FOLLOWING "our Rapture"), so this passage is not saying many of Israel won't be coming to faith throughout the trib yrs... many indeed WILL BE, just to be clear.]
[end quoting old post]
The persecution will continue until the end. The reason many so called christians don't suffer persecution is because they don't come out of the world. Those that stop participating in the ungodly activities around them will experience persecution because the Holy Spirit in their holy lives convict people of the Judgment to come. And there is a storm coming. The likes of which ancient Jerusalem has never seen.
PTL. Few stand there. = )
Oh, I see it alright.
I would just point out that each of these two distinct words / ideas must be understood within the context of their own sentences they are used in.
Verse 1 is not verse 3, for example.
--v.1 "...to SHOW unto His servants things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (not EVERYTHING in this book in its entirety is talking about the "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"... there's also the 1:19a and 1:19b things that John was ALSO to "WRITE"); rather, vv.1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 connect;
--v.3 concerns "he that READETH"... "the WORDS of this prophecy"... "KEEP [/guard] those things which are WRITTEN THEREIN"
All you are doing is "lumping things together" (that SEEM to you to be the same [for example, thinking G5034 IS G5035... or that v.1 is EQUATED with v.3]) which are actually distinct things.
The word here ^ is "tachu / tachy [G5035 - adv]" (not "tachos [G5034 - noun]").
Here's what the Bible Hub page has to say about this "G5035 - tachu / tachy [adv]" word:
[quoting from the BH page]
HELPS Word-studies
5035 taxý (an adjective, used adverbially, and derived from 5036 /taxýs, "promptly") – properly, swift (quick), without unnecessary delay; used of God's promptness characterizing how He has ordered all physical scenes of life to happen on His perfect timetable without unnecessary "delay" (Rev 1:1, 22:6).
[5035 (taxý) does not mean "immediately" or necessarily "in a very short time" but rather "without any delay."]
-- https://biblehub.com/greek/5035.htm
[end quoting]
____________
Hope that helps you (and the readers of this thread) to see my perspective (which is the "futurist" [not "Preterist"] perspective = ) )
Oh, I see it alright.
I would just point out that each of these two distinct words / ideas must be understood within the context of their own sentences they are used in.
Verse 1 is not verse 3, for example.
--v.1 "...to SHOW unto His servants things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (not EVERYTHING in this book in its entirety is talking about the "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"... there's also the 1:19a and 1:19b things that John was ALSO to "WRITE"); rather, vv.1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 connect;
--v.3 concerns "he that READETH"... "the WORDS of this prophecy"... "KEEP [/guard] those things which are WRITTEN THEREIN"
All you are doing is "lumping things together" (that SEEM to you to be the same [for example, thinking G5034 IS G5035... or that v.1 is EQUATED with v.3]) which are actually distinct things.
The word here ^ is "tachu / tachy [G5035 - adv]" (not "tachos [G5034 - noun]").
Here's what the Bible Hub page has to say about this "G5035 - tachu / tachy [adv]" word:
[quoting from the BH page]
HELPS Word-studies
5035 taxý (an adjective, used adverbially, and derived from 5036 /taxýs, "promptly") – properly, swift (quick), without unnecessary delay; used of God's promptness characterizing how He has ordered all physical scenes of life to happen on His perfect timetable without unnecessary "delay" (Rev 1:1, 22:6).
[5035 (taxý) does not mean "immediately" or necessarily "in a very short time" but rather "without any delay."]
-- https://biblehub.com/greek/5035.htm
[end quoting]
____________
Hope that helps you (and the readers of this thread) to see my perspective
(which is the "futurist" [not "Preterist"] perspective = ) )
Either way--tachu = SOON, SHORTLY, IMMEDIATELY
What part of the time is NEAR don't you understand? Is it "lumping things together" to tie together words within the framework of
THREE verses involved in a single subject? Also, Revelation 1:19 says: "the things which are ABOUT TO (mello) occur." [NOT LUMPING THINGS TOGETHER] but when verse 19 is taken along with verses 3 and 1, we get the sense of things that are to happen SHORTLY; they are NEAR, they are ABOUT to transpire.
Major translations render Revelation 1:1 as SHORTLY or SOON
ASV, ESV, KJV, NASB, New Century Version, NIV, NKJV, RSV
Tachos -almost always translated as SOON. Other renderings are not found in eschatological passages.
Whom was John addressing when he wrote "he who readeth?" Those of his day! He was not thinking of US nearly 2 thousand years later. That is not the context. THEY were to keep what was written in it. Why? Because the time was NEAR! This is simple language.
The nuance of the words in these verses and in others like them is not SWIFTNESS; it is SOONNESS. Those saints who were suffering persecution in THAT day were not so much concerned about His quick motion when He came but that He would come to them SOON and rescue THEM. You strain at a gnat and swallow a camel in your attempts to discredit anything that speaks of nearness.
"IN A VERY, VERY little while, He who is coming will come and will NOT delay" (Heb. 10:37). That is the umbrella of nearness that covers all of the NT eschatological teachings! Proverbs 13:12 "Hope deferred makes the heart sick." Two thousand years is a lot of deferment, don't you think?
And you can twist and manipulate all you want, but you will never justifiably or soundly diminish the force of JESUS' words. "THIS (not "that" or any other but THIS) generation will by no means pass away until ALL THESE THINGS take place. That included His "coming on the clouds of heaven" with POWER and GREAT GLORY and it involved the angels with a LOUD TRUMPET CALL (not found in Acts 1!) gathering together "the elect from the four winds." FURTHERMORE, JESUS told those very disciples with Him that THEY would see ALL THESE THINGS.
But maybe I'm just "lumping things together."
The persecution spoken of in the Gospel accounts is NOT general persecution. THOSE of THAT generation are the subjects and the recipients of the persecution. When would that persecution end? Paul wrote to those very Thessalonians of HIS day and commended them for their faith. He assured them that THEY would be vindicated and given relief from THEIR persecutors. Those who troubled THEM would be repaid by God with the same affliction with which they afflicted His Church. When would this happen? Paul tells THEM: "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty ANGELS in flaming FIRE." The Lord Jesus was coming to THEM in their lifetime to rescue THEM and to punish THEIR persecutors. This is why Peter wrote: "The end of all things is AT HAND" (1 Peter 4:7). What were those "all things"? They were the stoicheia of 2 Peter 3--the elements and precepts of Judaism and the Mosaic Law. THOSE elements were burned with "fervent heat" in the destruction of the Temple when the "power of the holy people" (Dan. 12) was "completely shattered."
Do you know what the ancient Jerusalem suffered? Perhaps you should read Josephus. It WAS a time such as had never been and never would be again. First of all, the persecution JESUS spoke of occurred in HIS generation (the THIS generation). I'm sorry so many don't like that. The persecution involved a specific time in history during which Jesus would come and judge those apostate Jews of His day whom He declared "guilty of all the righteous blood shed on the earth" (Matthew 23). That would happen in THEIR generation "(all these things will come upon THIS generation").
It would never happen again because it was a unique event and a specific judgment. Never before had God so ultimately and with such finality judged the Jews. In the past, they had sinned, he had judged them, they had repented, and He had restored them. Not THIS time. It would never happen again because God destroyed that nation forever. The Great Tribulation was 3 1/2 years of famine, murder, and despicable acts including the eating of one's own children! According to Josephus, the Jewish historian and eyewitness of the events, "vast numbers of dead bodies lay in heaps" (The War of the Jews, 317). Various Jewish sects fought against each other and murdered each other. Titus lay siege on April 14, A.D. 70. Josephus said: "That neither did any other city suffer such miseries nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world" (Josephus, 404). Horrible cruelties took place within the walls and people went mad from hunger and rage. Cannibalism was rampant. Mother ate their own children. There were so many dead within the walls that they could not be buried. The stench was so horrific that the decayed bodies were thrown over the walls. In one night, 2000 Jewish deserters had their bellies sliced open by the Romans because the Jews would swallow gold before escaping (Josephus, 414).
Josephus said: Accordingly, the multitude of those that therein perished exceeded all the destructions that either men or God ever brought upon the world" (Josephus 477). All of Palestine suffered in this "great distress."
The Great Tribulation is long PAST. It was prophesied by Jesus and it was to happen in HIS own generation. It was first and foremost a judgment upon the JEWS of HIS day. THEIR house was left unto THEM desolate in A.D. 70!
Do you know what the ancient Jerusalem suffered? Perhaps you should read Josephus. It WAS a time such as had never been and never would be again. First of all, the persecution JESUS spoke of occurred in HIS generation (the THIS generation). I'm sorry so many don't like that. The persecution involved a specific time in history during which Jesus would come and judge those apostate Jews of His day whom He declared "guilty of all the righteous blood shed on the earth" (Matthew 23). That would happen in THEIR generation "(all these things will come upon THIS generation").
It would never happen again because it was a unique event and a specific judgment. Never before had God so ultimately and with such finality judged the Jews. In the past, they had sinned, he had judged them, they had repented, and He had restored them. Not THIS time. It would never happen again because God destroyed that nation forever. The Great Tribulation was 3 1/2 years of famine, murder, and despicable acts including the eating of one's own children! According to Josephus, the Jewish historian and eyewitness of the events, "vast numbers of dead bodies lay in heaps" (The War of the Jews, 317). Various Jewish sects fought against each other and murdered each other. Titus lay siege on April 14, A.D. 70. Josephus said: "That neither did any other city suffer such miseries nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world" (Josephus, 404). Horrible cruelties took place within the walls and people went mad from hunger and rage. Cannibalism was rampant. Mother ate their own children. There were so many dead within the walls that they could not be buried. The stench was so horrific that the decayed bodies were thrown over the walls. In one night, 2000 Jewish deserters had their bellies sliced open by the Romans because the Jews would swallow gold before escaping (Josephus, 414).
Josephus said: Accordingly, the multitude of those that therein perished exceeded all the destructions that either men or God ever brought upon the world" (Josephus 477). All of Palestine suffered in this "great distress."
The Great Tribulation is long PAST. It was prophesied by Jesus and it was to happen in HIS own generation. It was first and foremost a judgment upon the JEWS of HIS day. THEIR house was left unto THEM desolate in A.D. 70!
Your mistake is that you set “this generation” as the condition and “all these things” as the result, and then you do all these mental gymnastics to justify your position; what Jesus actually said was the opposite, “these things” were the hard conditions, whoever “this generation” is it must fit into the framework of “these things”, not the other way around. This is why I said you got it backwards.