ARE WE LOSING THE SIMPLICITY THAT IS IN CHRIST?

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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#81
Dec 12, 2013
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#81
crossnote said:
Hoffco,
I can play your silly game too. (You sure the guy with the club didn't succeed?)
Tell me how and where I denied my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Bro. Ken used two passages that have nothing to do with God's true children.
You do know the difference between Billy Graham and Benny Hinn I hope.
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Probably not........!
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#82
Nov 24, 2012
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#82
Hoffco said:
To crossnote NO WAY! the saved are never lost again. But, once saved, they are always holy, OSAH.
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They are Holy because they are His FOREVER and they have the Holy Spirit busy at work sanctifying them.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#83
#83
I believe in the Eternal covenant of God's Grace. OSAS,and OSAH (holy) Rom 8 & 9 are true, 8:29-30,38-39 & 9: 13. 22-24, Once God saves ,calls, His elect ones, they can NEVER be lost again.! Love to all, for the sake of God's elect. Hoffco
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#84
Nov 24, 2012
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#84
kennethcadwell said:
The scriptures speak for themselves.

Matthew 25 is the separation of the sheep ( true believers ) from the goats ( mere belief ).

Some people believe they just simply have to believe in Jesus and they are saved, but their belief does not consist of doing the will of God in their life. They water it down to a mere belief gospel.

When ever I get into these discussions I post the scriptures that Jesus told the Apostles they must do to see the kingdom of heaven. ( salvation, eternal life )

They then turn and refute them saying they don't apply to us, just to them, but Jesus teachings did not die with Him at the cross. They are very much evident and apply still today.

Then you have scriptures that speak of those who turn back to willful sin, after being in Christ and that there fate is not eternal life. I will give you the main one some use.

Hebrews 10:26-31For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[SUP] [/SUP]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If you go on sinning wilfully after accepting Christ, you make yourself an adversary instead of a follower. And the adversaries of God get sent to the fiery indignation of the pit of hell.

But if you don't like this scripture, or Matthew 25s sheep and the goats. Then here are more that say you have to stay abiding in Christ to be saved.


James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

Matthew 24:10-13
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Hebrews 12:1-3
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.

Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

2 Timothy 4:2-8
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.

1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

1 Corinthians 9:24-25
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.

Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

Mark 13:9-13
“But be on your guard. For they will deliver you over to councils, and you will be beaten in synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them. And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations. And when they bring you to trial and deliver you over, do not be anxious beforehand what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. And brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death. And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
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Mt 25 deals with judgment of the nations (gentiles) not the church...do a study on it.
I'll take just one at a time ,this board is moving too fast to cover long posts...next.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#85
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
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#85
Hoffco said:
I believe in the Eternal covenant of God's Grace. OSAS,and OSAH (holy) Rom 8 & 9 are true, 8:29-30,38-39 & 9: 13. 22-24, Once God saves ,calls, His elect ones, they can NEVER be lost again.! Love to all, for the sake of God's elect. Hoffco
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Are you sure you are not bi-polar......serious.....You come in here mouthing the ones who are making a stand on the above and then twist what we say while arguing against us.......WOW!
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#86
#86
to crossnote, your post 82 is soooo true. Santification is the way God saves us, the new birth and the daily work of the Spirit. Sanct. is first and Justification is second.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#87
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
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#87
dcontroversal said:
Are you sure you are not bi-polar......serious.....You come in here mouthing the ones who are making a stand on the above and then twist what we say while arguing against us.......WOW!
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I was just about to express a ditto.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#89
Nov 24, 2012
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#89
Hoffco said:
to crossnote, your post 82 is soooo true. Santification is the way God saves us, the new birth and the daily work of the Spirit. Sanct. is first and Justification is second.
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Positional sanctification happens at the time of justification. The way God saves us is thru Jesus Christ who died for us and grants the new birth with faith. Progressive sanctification is ongoing through faith.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#91
#91
Sorry, decon. and crossnote, you two seem to hate the pure word of God. why argue against the great posts of Bro. Ken and from myself. If you love the word of God, you would try to fit our passages into your thinking, we giving you the pure words of God.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#92
#92
crossnote said:
So this could be the end of those who are born again/God's children?...

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
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Look the ones who get sent to ever lasting punishment are the goats ( mere believers ).

How do we know they only had mere belief, because they refer to Jesus as Lord.
But then why does Jesus then send them away to ever lasting punishment. Verse 45 tells us;

[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.


You can have belief in Jesus as Lord, and still deny Him. ( This is mere belief category )


Matthew 10:32-33
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.


Titus 1:16

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#93
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#93
Hoffco said:
Sorry, decon. and crossnote, you two seem to hate the pure word of God. why argue against the great posts of Bro. Ken and from myself. If you love the word of God, you would try to fit our passages into your thinking, we giving you the pure words of God.
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That is your problem dude...trying to FIT the word of God into your little theological box........God's word does not need to be fitted into anything as it CALLS us to come up to it's level......serious...have you seen the doctors lately for your bi-polar difficulties!
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#94
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
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#94
Hoffco said:
Sorry, decon. and crossnote, you two seem to hate the pure word of God. why argue against the great posts of Bro. Ken and from myself. If you love the word of God, you would try to fit our passages into your thinking, we giving you the pure words of God.
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PLEASE, yes the essence of debate/discussion.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#95
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#95
kennethcadwell said:
Look the ones who get sent to ever lasting punishment are the goats ( mere believers ).

How do we know they only had mere belief, because they refer to Jesus as Lord.
But then why does Jesus then send them away to ever lasting punishment. Verse 45 tells us;

[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.


You can have belief in Jesus as Lord, and still deny Him. ( This is mere belief category )


Matthew 10:32-33
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.


Titus 1:16

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
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Brother...there is no such thing as true believers and mere believers as YOU are either a BELIEVER or NOT!
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#96
#96
crossnote said:
Mt 25 deals with judgment of the nations (gentiles) not the church...do a study on it.
I'll take just one at a time ,this board is moving too fast to cover long posts...next.
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I have done the study, Matthew 25 is the separating of the sheep from the goats.

The true believers in Jesus Christ are the sheep.......................
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#97
#97
Sorry crossnote, your "faith " is your god. My faith is God's gift to me. Your faith is your gift to god to allow your god to work in your life.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#98
#98
dcontroversal said:
Brother...there is no such thing as true believers and mere believers as YOU are either a BELIEVER or NOT!
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Wrong Dcon, both those groups in Matthew 25 believed in Jesus as Lord.

I showed the scripture a little while ago that showed that only through the Holy Spirit can one call Jesus Lord.

Then Jesus Himself says that not all who call Him Lord will be in the kingdom of heaven.

The only way this can be possible is if they only have mere belief in Him and what He did on the cross, but refuse to follow His teachings and/or the Holy Spirits guidance in their life.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#99
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
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#99
kennethcadwell said:
Look the ones who get sent to ever lasting punishment are the goats ( mere believers ).How do we know they only had mere belief, because they refer to Jesus as Lord. But then why does Jesus then send them away to ever lasting punishment. Verse 45 tells us;[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.You can have belief in Jesus as Lord, and still deny Him. ( This is mere belief category )Matthew 10:32-33[SUP]32 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.[SUP]33 [/SUP]But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.Titus 1:16They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
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You are simply saying the same thing I am but are using the wrong scriptures.Of course those who are professors only who do not have genuine faith and lack regeneration by the indwelling Spirit will perish...they are not God's children.. That hasn't been the debate.The debate is if a TRUE christian who has received the Spirit since he believed can perish.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#100
#100
Bro Ken is right, Mt. 24&25 are for the separation of the Sheep and the goats, of all nations. This evil twist of making mt.24 to be for Gentiles only is bad. Mt. 24 is the rapture of the Church of God from all nations.
 
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