ARE WE LOSING THE SIMPLICITY THAT IS IN CHRIST?

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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#101
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#101
kennethcadwell said:
Wrong Dcon, both those groups in Matthew 25 believed in Jesus as Lord.

I showed the scripture a little while ago that showed that only through the Holy Spirit can one call Jesus Lord.

Then Jesus Himself says that not all who call Him Lord will be in the kingdom of heaven.

The only way this can be possible is if they only have mere belief in Him and what He did on the cross, but refuse to follow His teachings and/or the Holy Spirits guidance in their life.
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Who makes it to heaven--->believers
Who goes to hell---->unbelievers

Matthew 10:32-33
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.


Believers and Unbelievers

Your MATTHEW 25 quote is a little out of context!
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#102
#102
The REAL debate here is, KISS, keep it simple stupid. SORRY, Bro. crossnote, I could not resist, you opened yourself up for it, I "packeauded" you. LOL. Loved Hoffco
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#103
#103
crossnote said:
You are simply saying the same thing I am but are using the wrong scriptures.Of course those who are professors only who do not have genuine faith and lack regeneration by the indwelling Spirit will perish...they are not God's children.. That hasn't been the debate.The debate is if a TRUE christian who has received the Spirit since he believed can perish.
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Here is the thing Crossnote,

To many believe that just because you have received the Holy Spirit you no longer can go back to live in willful sin.
The Holy Spirit is our guide, He does not control us.


He gives us direction to follow, but some can and have refused that guidance.

The sower and the seed parable also gives us the example of how people handle hearing and accepting or not the word.

In that parable one of the groups is said to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, but then later on in life a personal trial or tribulation they faced caused them to turn away from the Lord. No longer walk in Christ.

Then you have the other scriptures that say that some who were presently walking in belief of Jesus Christ end up turning away do to false teachers.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#104
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
3,651
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#104
kennethcadwell said:
Here is the thing Crossnote,

To many believe that just because you have received the Holy Spirit you no longer can go back to live in willful sin.
The Holy Spirit is our guide, He does not control us.


He gives us direction to follow, but some can and have refused that guidance.

The sower and the seed parable also gives us the example of how people handle hearing and accepting or not the word.

In that parable one of the groups is said to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, but then later on in life a personal trial or tribulation they faced caused them to turn away from the Lord. No longer walk in Christ.

Then you have the other scriptures that say that some who were presently walking in belief of Jesus Christ end up turning away do to false teachers.
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The believer can lapse into willfil sin but the Holy Spirit it will convict and make life miserable to His Children. And since God is not willing any should perish will take His child home if necessary to save his soul.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#105
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
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#105
Hoffco said:
The REAL debate here is, KISS, keep it simple stupid. SORRY, Bro. crossnote, I could not resist, you opened yourself up for it, I "packeauded" you. LOL. Loved Hoffco
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That's fine, your words speak for themselves, I don't need to.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#107
#107
dcontroversal said:
Who makes it to heaven--->believers
Who goes to hell---->unbelievers

Matthew 10:32-33
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.


Believers and Unbelievers

Your MATTHEW 25 quote is a little out of context!
Click to expand...
It is not out of context Dcon.

You are the one who wants to understand it as just believers and unbelievers.
The scriptures make it clear that if you deny Him you go to hell. The scriptures including the words of Jesus make it clear there are other ways to deny Jesus then just believing in Him as Lord.

Jesus tells the second group ( goats ) because they did not do for those in need down here that is a form of denial.
You deny help to others in need, you have denied help to our Lord.

Then you have Titus which I gave that backs this up by saying in their works they deny Him.

A true believer will have these kinds of works in their life because they automatically do this out of love.

If you refuse to help others in need, show love to all even enemies, then the word says the truth is not in you.

There are to many who believe they are saved because they believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior, yet still show hatred towards and do not follow His teachings.

These are lost sheep, and if we do not bring them to the truth they will be in that goat category mentioned in Matthew 25.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#108
#108
Sorry, Bro. Ken, I think Bro. decon. has a real point on Mt.25. The issue is between the righteous, and the unrighteous. Granted. the wicked ones who cast out demon in Mt. 7:22-23 are "believers" in Jesus, and they call Jesus Lord,but not in truth, of course, and the same is true in Mt.25, but the issue in 25 is," you wicked lazy servant" v.26 and "unprofitable servant" v30 same as in Mt.7.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#109
Nov 24, 2012
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#109
Hoffco said:
Bro Ken is right, Mt. 24&25 are for the separation of the Sheep and the goats, of all nations. This evil twist of making mt.24 to be for Gentiles only is bad. Mt. 24 is the rapture of the Church of God from all nations.
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Nations = Gentiles. Hello?
'these my My brethren' refer to the survived Jewish remnant during the tribulation.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#110
#110
To Ken, your post 107 is sooo true. They, the goats, mouth the words, but don't live them out.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#111
#111
crossnote said:
The believer can lapse into willfil sin but the Holy Spirit it will convict and make life miserable to His Children. And since God is not willing any should perish will take His child home if necessary to save his soul.
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Your right a believer can lapse, fall back, faulter, backslide. However you want to put it, and the Holy Spirit will convict them and punishment and correction follows.

Once that conviction hits you from the Holy Spirit, you must then repent ( turn away ) from that sin and ask forgiveness of it.

If you don't repent or ask forgiveness of it, you will not be saved.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#112
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
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#112
Hoffco said:
To Ken, your post 107 is sooo true. They, the goats, mouth the words, but don't live them out.
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Ok, so you admit they are professors not possessors...goats not sheep!
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#113
#113
No crossnote, the rapture is just before the "Jacob's trouble of the last half of the 70th wk. of Daniel. Mt.24 is the Rapture from all nations. "all the tribes" "His elect from the four winds,from one end of heaven to the other." vs.30-31 Jews included.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#114
#114
Hoffco said:
Sorry, Bro. Ken, I think Bro. decon. has a real point on Mt.25. The issue is between the righteous, and the unrighteous. Granted. the wicked ones who cast out demon in Mt. 7:22-23 are "believers" in Jesus, and they call Jesus Lord,but not in truth, of course, and the same is true in Mt.25, but the issue in 25 is," you wicked lazy servant" v.26 and "unprofitable servant" v30 same as in Mt.7.
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Yes he does have a point, and Dcon does say some good things some times.

But none of us are perfect, we all could and do have some areas we need improvement on.
The thing I try to point out is though that have enough belief to call Jesus Lord, but they then turn and deny Him in their actions. This is not just boiled down to unbelievers, those who refuse to accept God or Jesus our Lord and Savior exist.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#115
#115
Yes, crossnote Heb. 6:4 is to the goats, who never were saved. The others in heb.6:9-10 are the sheep who repent and go on in holy works, as Bro, Ken says
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#116
#116
I need to get a little more sheep,LOL, sleep, before day brake. God bless us all. Hoffco
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#117
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
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#117
kennethcadwell said:
Your right a believer can lapse, fall back, faulter, backslide. However you want to put it, and the Holy Spirit will convict them and punishment and correction follows.

Once that conviction hits you from the Holy Spirit, you must then repent ( turn away ) from that sin and ask forgiveness of it.

If you don't repent or ask forgiveness of it, you will not be saved.
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On your last sentence...the Scripture says that God is not willing that any should PERISH.
Do you think God would let one of His children go so far as to perish without taking him home before His child reached that 'point of no return'?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#118
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
3,651
113
#118
Hoffco said:
Yes, crossnote Heb. 6:4 is to the goats, who never were saved. The others in heb.6:9-10 are the sheep who repent and go on in holy works, as Bro, Ken says
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Hoffco said:
No crossnote, the rapture is just before the "Jacob's trouble of the last half of the 70th wk. of Daniel. Mt.24 is the Rapture from all nations. "all the tribes" "His elect from the four winds,from one end of heaven to the other." vs.30-31 Jews included.
Click to expand...
Hoffco said:
I need to get a little more sheep,LOL, sleep, before day brake. God bless us all. Hoffco
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Yup, sleep may help you. You might even wake up a sheep.
 
djness

djness

Senior Member
#119
May 16, 2014
502
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#119
This poor lady just wanted to share a simple verse an a lovely picture of a flower and you all did EXACTLY what you normally do....

So to answer the question...YES...
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#120
#120
crossnote said:
On your last sentence...the Scripture says that God is not willing that any should PERISH.
Do you think God would let one of His children go so far as to perish without taking him home before His child reached that 'point of no return'?
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God leaves it up to us to decide, He does not take our free will away.

Yes He does not want any of us to perish, we though are given that choice to accept the Holy Spirits guidance or not.
Yes He will send help as in other people to talk to, lift them up, edify them. Once again through free will they can choose to refuse that help and guidance from the Holy Spirit or another person in Christ.


If a believer has fallen away, he has already fell from their saved state. The only way to return to it is through repentance and asking forgiveness of that sin.


Once again I will mention the sower and the seed parable.
( The group that abide in Christ tell a trial or tribulation happens in their life that turns them away from Christ. )


If this could not happen then our Lord Jesus would not have mentioned it.

We can not say that some one who believes in the Lord, can not turn away from the Lord.
It happens, the bible says it happens.
 
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