Are we saved by faith alone or is works necessary?

[eternally-gratefull]

I understand all of that what I'm wondering about did Peter and the Apostles ( other than Paul) carry on with the acts of Judaism as they were brought up with Jesus' teachings incorporated?
I know the name and blood of Jesus is our only salvation.

I think we know Peter did continue with some. But we also know Paul called peter out because Peter was refusing to eat forbidden meat (according to the law) around gentiles because some Jews came in and Peter was afraid of the jews..

 

[Gardenias]

I think we know Peter did continue with some. But we also know Paul called peter out because Peter was refusing to eat forbidden meat (according to the law) around gentiles because some Jews came in and Peter was afraid of the jews..

Yes, as Paul did when he circumcised his traveling companion bc of the Jews.
I have a book written by Ousler Armstrong who wrote Greatest Story Ever Told,he also started writing the Greatest Faith Ever Known but passed before he finished it,his daughter finished it April Armstrong. It's very old!
Maybe I'll just read it again. They use from Acts to Revelation to dipict the times .
I'm interested in how the first believers exhibited their faith and grew.
I know Paul was called to preach and teach to the gentiles. I guess I'm trying to parallel the then and now believers without man's input

 

[Gardenias]

My thread @ Blik didn't pass and she may even have me on ignore,don't know why.
But she seems to be studying the same believers time frame

Thank you for responding.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not actually. Don't confuse salvation through faith in Christ alone - "apart from works" (Romans 4:5-6) with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works." (James 2:14)

Are saying that dead faith produces obedience/works in order to become a living faith? That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree. Faith is made alive in Christ FIRST and then afterwards it produces obedience/good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10) Something that is dead cannot produce anything.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: *Nothing mentioned here about Abraham's faith being incomplete to save him until many years later "after" he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:22, faith "made perfect or complete" by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

Paul is not teaching salvation through faith + obedience/works here. Now although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.

Just as we read in Romans 1:5 - Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience/works afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/works.

Amen brother

Faith that saves is living, Before one work which proceeds from that faith is produced. Abraham was saved the moment he believed God He did his works long after he was saved

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My thread @ Blik didn't pass and she may even have me on ignore,don't know why.
But she seems to be studying the same believers time frame

Thank you for responding.

She pushes the law for all believers, and teaches that those who do not obey the law which is given to all of us. are not saved..

 

[CS1]

We put actions to our faith, He says repent and we do repent, He says believe and we do believe, He says be baptized and I certainly have, this was and is my confession.

Most importantly we have received Him and He has made His dwelling in us.

We seek to do all He tells us to do.

Much of what He tells us to do is very difficult when the church is so backslidden.

amen. faith is a noun Belief is a verb. We must live the faith we profess. Not talk only about the faith we claim you have.

 

[rolisyque]

I think when we fully understand Freedom then we are able to understand what it means to "work" for the Lord.


As we all know Salvation does not come from the law but from Jesus, so in that respect when we follow the law it brings true freedom. Some might think being able to do as one wishes is freedom, many fall in to this trap when growing up and try drugs then get hooked on them. They think they are getting free from the world and its issues but only to find them self in bondage to addiction. When we do not love our neighbor it puts us in bondages to sin with hate in much the same as addiction runs a persons life so can hate run your life and drain all your energy. When we Love Jesus we will want to follow in his foot steps to the degree of our faith allows.

If you believe and trust in Christ Jesus as your Lord and savior then you will follow Him and try to be like Him thus that will translate into good works. Do those works save you NO but as James said faith without works is dead.

salvation under grace period time it comes this way first of all you need to know what JESUS said to his disciples in order for you to see how you can become one of his disciples as JESUS order them under Matthew 28 verse 19 in this order JESUS is telling us how to obtain salvation thru the teachings of the Apostles, all disciples what we must do to obtain salvation; when you understand this part then you must know what to do but if you have a problem to believe and understanding what Jesus told his disciples that is thru them that we all must become their disciples, try to understand there is no other way any one can become saved in their own beliefs how do we know if we are one of their disciples? you must obey the Apostles doctrine this is not about finding out JESUS save us when he died even though JESUS died on Calvary to bring us a new way for the whole world to obtain salvation Grace period salvation it's like a ladder that we must climb up step by step and the first step if what jESUS told his disciples as he told them to go into all the whole world and make disciples this is the first step and JESUS adding a 2nd step is to baptizing them in the (name) of somebody, Matthew 28 verse 19 Jesus said to Baptize in the( name ) of the father, and of the son, and of the holy SPIRIT, 3RD step the disciples they knew the( name) of the father john chapter 14 verse 6 thru 11,Jesus was asked by Phillip show us the Father because any disciple who needs to be baptize should know the (name) of the father to be baptize in (Name) of who is the Father( name) when you find out the (name) of the father then you know that you must be baptized in his (Name) and if JESUS answer to PHILLIP for so long i have being here with you Phillip and you do not know me, he who have seeing me have seeing the father because i and the father we are one; JESUS is the (name) of the son and the father and the Holy Spirit and you should be baptize in JESUS (name) to obtain salvation as JESUS said this is how you be saved read Mark chapter 16 verse 16 he who believe and is baptize he , or she shall be saved, Jesus adds but if you do not believe in getting baptize JESUS said this is how you shall be damned, step 4 you must find out how the Apostles they started baptizing this is for you to obtain salvation if you're missing this 4 steps you can never be saved in any other way when Paul was speaking in different messages of salvation Paul messages was directed to those who were already saved in his letters and if you grab those messages without going thru those steps i told you your missing the link of how to obtain salvation you can not apply Paul messages to you without obtaining salvation first because Paul messages were not directed to you and you can not applying them for you to be saved when in reality you need to be saved, I know it sounds bad to say it this way but this is the truth please confirm step 5 when JESUS tells Nicodemus in the Gospel of John chapter 3 verse 1 thru verse 6 and 16 follow step 6 to know what is need it to obtain your salvation read the book of Luke chapter 24 verse 47 thru end of chapter and then go to Acts chapter 1 to follow up and chapter 2 of acts verse 1 thru 38 thru 41 then you will see how the Apostles baptize the first disciples in day one under the Grace period which they made almost 3000 disciples all baptized in the name of JESUSCHRIST for the forgiveness of their sins thank you GBU

 

[ResidentAlien]

Let's look at Hebrews 11, the famous "faith" chapter that people promoting faith alone like to point to:

4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts.

7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household.

8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land. . .

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac. . .

20 By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau.

21 By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff.

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents. . .

27 By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king. . .

There are more but I'm sure you get the idea. All the words in red are action words. In each case faith was accompanied by action. Faith requires action or it's no faith at all. Why would God save someone who says a sinner's prayer at some point then sits around and never does anything for Him or even makes a habit of willingly sinning against Him?

I'm sure you already have your rebuttals waiting in the wings, so have at it.

 

[rolisyque]

Let's look at Hebrews 11, the famous "faith" chapter that people promoting faith alone like to point to:

4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts.

7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household.

8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land. . .

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac. . .

20 By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau.

21 By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff.

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents. . .

27 By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king. . .

There are more but I'm sure you get the idea. All the words in red are action words. In each case faith was accompanied by action. Faith requires action or it's no faith at all. Why would God save someone who says a sinner's prayer at some point then sits around and never does anything for Him or even makes a habit of willingly sinning against Him?

I'm sure you already have your rebuttals waiting in the wings, so have at it.

hi Praise the Lord everything you're saying here it was for the Israelites not for todays world the old testament was directed to all the Israelites and this was carry out for them only not for salvation we are under a new ERA now we are under grace period the Law was given for the Hebrews since JESUS died he open a new ERA which it is called Grace Period and now we are under a new testament Law which JESUS gave orders to the disciples he chose to go and preach his Gospel thru all nations Baptizing them in one name to be born again as John chapter 3 verse 1 thru 6 this is how you can become a child of GOD not every one are children of GOD sorry gbu

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let's look at Hebrews 11, the famous "faith" chapter that people promoting faith alone like to point to:

4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts.

7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household.

8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land. . .

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac. . .

20 By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau.

21 By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff.

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents. . .

27 By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king. . .

There are more but I'm sure you get the idea. All the words in red are action words. In each case faith was accompanied by action. Faith requires action or it's no faith at all. Why would God save someone who says a sinner's prayer at some point then sits around and never does anything for Him or even makes a habit of willingly sinning against Him?

I'm sure you already have your rebuttals waiting in the wings, so have at it.

These people were saved by faith alone
however their faith which saved also included a trust in god not only for salvation but other things. Hence their faith which saved also worked
salvation is still by faith alone

 

[Blik]

The blood of Jesus was only applied to those Old Testament saints after the fact when the Lord visited Abraham’s bosom after his death on the cross. Those saints didn’t have what we have today.

Wow! So Matthew, in your eyes, was not telling the truth and is not scripture?

 

[Blik]

These people were saved by faith alone

Faith, we are told is required for salvation, but we are also told that there is and never was salvation without blood. We are also told that there is no salvation without Christ, so the blood shed in the old testament had to relate to Christ, for we are told it resulted in forgiveness of sin.

I wonder why posters are trying to refute scripture about salvation given for the about 4,000 years before Christ was born as a man? Do you think that God was created when Christ was born?

 

[John146]

Wow! So Matthew, in your eyes, was not telling the truth and is not scripture?

Of course Matthew is scripture. I’m not following you? Is there another way unto salvation than the shed blood of Jesus Christ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Faith, we are told is required for salvation, but we are also told that there is and never was salvation without blood. We are also told that there is no salvation without Christ, so the blood shed in the old testament had to relate to Christ, for we are told it resulted in forgiveness of sin.

I wonder why posters are trying to refute scripture about salvation given for the about 4,000 years before Christ was born as a man? Do you think that God was created when Christ was born?

Abraham was saved by faith alone BEFORE Christ.

Every person in every age was born by faith in God. No one was EVER saved by works.

The requirment of trying to save yourself by works was perfection. It was found in the law.

 

[Blik]

Of course Matthew is scripture. I’m not following you? Is there another way unto salvation than the shed blood of Jesus Christ?

You say the blood of Jesus was only after the fact". Matthew says that when Christ was crucified and the curtain was split, the saint were so alive they walked the streets. They had been saved in sleep all those years, not after anything.

The very first thing that God did when man died in their sins was give blood on the altar as we are told in Leviticus so that we can be forgiven sins and overcome death, That was the very first thing, not after anything else. God sacrificed an animal as symbolic of this to cloth Adam and Eve. Then God created the sacrificial system to preserve saints until Christ was born. Scripture tells us there is and was no salvation except through Christ. Scripture tells us saints were saved in sleep. Scripture is truth, we are just humans.

 

[John146]

You say the blood of Jesus was only after the fact". Matthew says that when Christ was crucified and the curtain was split, the saint were so alive they walked the streets. They had been saved in sleep all those years, not after anything.

The very first thing that God did when man died in their sins was give blood on the altar as we are told in Leviticus so that we can be forgiven sins and overcome death, That was the very first thing, not after anything else. God sacrificed an animal as symbolic of this to cloth Adam and Eve. Then God created the sacrificial system to preserve saints until Christ was born. Scripture tells us there is and was no salvation except through Christ. Scripture tells us saints were saved in sleep. Scripture is truth, we are just humans.

I guess to me, eternal salvation is not being asleep in Abraham's bosom in the heart of the earth. Salvation to me is to be with Christ because my sins have been washed away. Those OT saints did not enjoy that until after the cross. If those OT saints were saved and had their sins washed away, then why the need for Abraham's bosom? Couldn't they go to be with Christ upon death? I say no, because they didn't have what we have. When we die, we go immediately to be with Christ. That's better than the heart of the earth.

 

[John146]

Abraham was saved by faith alone BEFORE Christ.

Every person in every age was born by faith in God. No one was EVER saved by works.

The requirment of trying to save yourself by works was perfection. It was found in the law.

What's our requirement to be saved? What's the gospel message we must believe to be saved?

 

[Blik]

I guess to me, eternal salvation is not being asleep in Abraham's bosom in the heart of the earth. Salvation to me is to be with Christ because my sins have been washed away. Those OT saints did not enjoy that until after the cross. If those OT saints were saved and had their sins washed away, then why the need for Abraham's bosom? Couldn't they go to be with Christ upon death? I say no, because they didn't have what we have. When we die, we go immediately to be with Christ. That's better than the heart of the earth.

I think we need to learn what reality is and live with it, we can't change what is by what we believe. For about 4,000 years God saved saints in sleep that is how it was done we are told and we can accept that is how it was done or we can deny it, but we can't change it.

 

[John146]

I think we need to learn what reality is and live with it, we can't change what is by what we believe. For about 4,000 years God saved saints in sleep that is how it was done we are told and we can accept that is how it was done or we can deny it, but we can't change it.

I see it as they were kept “safe” from hell fire in Abraham’s bosom until the shed blood of Jesus was applied, then they were rescued and saved.

 

[CS1]

Titus 3:4-8 “But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

Does this mean that the faith they speak of is of the mind only, or does our faith have to include acting out our faith?

Scripture does not answer this question directly, but James tells us faith without works is dead and Christ tells us that being a Christian is not a matter of only how we think but includes what we do.

"Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven."(NASB) Matt. 7:21

this is true JAMES stalls us faith without works is dead, but he said that to those who were already saved the unsaved are dead already and must be made lives by the new birth as Jesu said and Paul spoke about in Romans chapters 5-8