Are we saved with a "dead" faith?

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seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#402
Dec 9, 2011
13,727
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#402
Yet said:
Are we saved with a dead faith?? If you'd walk into the average church you'd think so.
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If the faith Is dead, there will not be any good works.

People say that,that Is profession but not possession.

So,how can a person really be saved with a dead faith?

Of course we are saved by Grace and we have access to this Grace through faith and when It comes to salvation If a person Is just saying the words and not sincere then the words said are dead and not true from within.

The only way to be saved Is by Grace through faith that Is alive/sincerely true.
 
Utah

Utah

Banned
#404
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
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0
#404
seed_time_harvest said:
If a person Is just saying the words and not sincere then the words said are dead and not true from within.
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That's not a dead faith, that's no faith at all. Kinda of robotic in essence. Like when people say "I do" as they get married yet have no idea what the heck they're getting into.
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#406
Dec 9, 2011
13,727
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#406
Utah said:
That's not a dead faith, that's no faith at all. Kinda of robotic in essence. Like when people say "I do" as they get married yet have no idea what the heck they're getting into.
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Is a dead faith and no faith at all different?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#408
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#408
seed_time_harvest said:
Is a dead faith and no faith at all different?
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Faith in the law or the pope or anything not commanded by Scripture to put our faith in is a dead faith and is worse than no faith.
I suppose it can be argued that it imposible to have no faith since we all trust something or someone.
 
B

Babylonisfalling

Guest
#409
#409
Grandpa said:
It doesn't?

What does it mean?
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Mark 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
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It means the man was struggling with his faith and that we can pray for help in that matter.
It does not mean that a we receive forgiveness or that we are saved with a dead faith.
 
B

Babylonisfalling

Guest
#411
#411
I don't think so, if something is dead there is an implication that it was once alive. A stone is not alive but we do not call it dead.

If the phrase is "no faith" I wouldn't assume there was once a living faith. There could have been but the phrase doesn't suggest that.

There is a difference.
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#412
Dec 9, 2011
13,727
1,725
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#412
crossnote said:
Faith in the law or the pope or anything not commanded by Scripture to put our faith in is a dead faith and is worse than no faith.
I suppose it can be argued that it imposible to have no faith since we all trust something or someone.
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Would you agree that In order for faith to be"dead"It would have to have at one time been alive?
And If that Is the case then OSAS would be In question and I think It would be saying there was once salvation but the faith died.

I don't believe faith can die,I believe you have It or you never had It.

I suppose it can be argued that it imposible to have no faith since we all trust something or someone
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I do believe people In the world trust In their five senses.
 
B

Babylonisfalling

Guest
#413
#413
seed_time_harvest said:
Would you agree that In order for faith to be"dead"It would have to have at one time been alive?
And If that Is the case then OSAS would be In question and I think It would be saying there was once salvation but the faith died.

I don't believe faith can die,I believe you have It or you never had It.



I do believe people In the world trust In their five senses.
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If faith cannot die, then how to you get to a dead faith?
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#414
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#414
Babylonisfalling said:
It means the man was struggling with his faith and that we can pray for help in that matter.
It does not mean that a we receive forgiveness or that we are saved with a dead faith.
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If we pray for help in whatever manner, isn't that the essence of a live faith???
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#415
Dec 9, 2011
13,727
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#415
Babylonisfalling said:
If faith cannot die, then how to you get to a dead faith?
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I believe dead faith and no faith mean the same thing.

Somebody might ask,what was james talking about?
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James 2:26
king James version(KJV)

26.)For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
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The body will not respond If there Is no life and a person will not respond with any action that expresses their faith with their body If their Is no faith.
 
B

Babylonisfalling

Guest
#416
#416
Grandpa said:
If we pray for help in whatever manner, isn't that the essence of a live faith???
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That faith is not alive without works.
Sorry, it's always comes back to the Bible and this is what the Bible says.
I would think that prayer would ALSO be necessary to a living faith even though I don't know off the top of my head a verse that says that. We all know that works are necessary though because we all know that verse.
 
B

Babylonisfalling

Guest
#417
#417
seed_time_harvest said:
I believe dead faith and no faith mean the same thing.

Somebody might ask,what was james talking about?
+++
James 2:26
king James version(KJV)

26.)For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
+++
The body will not respond If there Is no life and a person will not respond with any action that expresses their faith with their body If their Is no faith.
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If your faith is dead then you have no more faith, so you have a point. But it still ultimately fails because dead faith still remains different. If something is dead, there is an implication that it was once alive, like a plant or corpse. In the case of "no faith" there is no implication that it was once alive. It basically means nonexistent which is different than dead.

Dead faith means you once had faith.
Nonexistent faith means you might have NEVER had any faith in the first place.
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#418
Dec 9, 2011
13,727
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#418
Babylonisfalling said:
If your faith is dead then you have no more faith, so you have a point. But it still ultimately fails because dead faith still remains different. If something is dead, there is an implication that it was once alive, like a plant or corpse. In the case of "no faith" there is no implication that it was once alive. It basically means nonexistent which is different than dead.

Dead faith means you once had faith.
Nonexistent faith means you might have NEVER had any faith in the first place.
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see post#415.

Do you believe that a person can't be saved by grace through faith alone without doing any works?
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#419
Jan 18, 2011
11,732
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#419
see, this seems to be a works salvation angle. we have seen this worded differently, but all in all seems to be driving at a works theme.
 
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