Are we saved with a "dead" faith?

[fredoheaven]

Sorry I misread your post and thought you meant there is nothing in Scripture that mentions works, rather than nothing in that particular Scripture that mentions works.

But still, there is Scripture that mentions "dead" faith based on the faith not having works.

So do you believe we can be saved with a dead faith?

Hi sir

Good day! Been here lately and like to butt in by simply asking a question to qualify your thread.
What salvation are you here telling us about? Is it salvation from eternal damnation from hell? or Is it salvation to mean physical protection from harm? or is it just like to save face from not doing what is right?

thanks,

 

[Babylonisfalling]

see post#415.

Do you believe that a person can't be saved by grace through faith alone without doing any works?

I believe faith without works is dead and I don't know how we are saved with a dead faith.Nobody in this s thread has said we are saved with a dead faith. Most try talking their way around the question without answering it. Only two (I think) gave a direct answer which was a no...not saved withna dead faith. I'm putting all the non answerers in the no column also. Nobody has able to tell me that we're saved with a dead faith.

I do believe we need works in the mix for salvation.

 

[Babylonisfalling]

Faith in the law or the pope or anything not commanded by Scripture to put our faith in is a dead faith and is worse than no faith.
I suppose it can be argued that it imposible to have no faith since we all trust something or someone.

Dead faith is actually defined in the Bible and it doesn't sound like your definition. You do believe the Biblical definition of dead faith, right?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I believe faith without works is dead and I don't know how we are saved with a dead faith.Nobody in this s thread has said we are saved with a dead faith. Most try talking their way around the question without answering it. Only two (I think) gave a direct answer which was a no...not saved withna dead faith. I'm putting all the non answerers in the no column also. Nobody has able to tell me that we're saved with a dead faith.

I do believe we need works in the mix for salvation.

Salvation comes first John 3:16 says whosoever believes will receive eternal life.

GOD looks at the heart and does not need to see physical works then as long as we are alive and In our bodies here on earth we will do good works.

Some would call this living holy/sanctification which Is what men will see and thats why James told them to show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works.

You seem to be putting GOD on the level of man by misinterpreting what James Is saying.

Harmonize scripture please.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I believe faith without works is dead and I don't know how we are saved with a dead faith.Nobody in this s thread has said we are saved with a dead faith. Most try talking their way around the question without answering it. Only two (I think) gave a direct answer which was a no...not saved withna dead faith. I'm putting all the non answerers in the no column also. Nobody has able to tell me that we're saved with a dead faith.

I do believe we need works in the mix for salvation.

BTW thank you for giving a straightforward answer to my question.

 

[Babylonisfalling]

Salvation comes first John 3:16 says whosoever believes will receive eternal life.

GOD looks at the heart and does not need to see physical works then as long as we are alive and In our bodies here on earth we will do good works.

Some would call this living holy/sanctification which Is what men will see and thats why James told them to show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works.

You seem to be putting GOD on the level of man by misinterpreting what James Is saying.

Harmonize scripture please.

Men don't need to see anything and God already knows. Works aren't supposed to be seen anyway. But without works, faith is still dead. Sorry but it's Biblical and it begs the question are we saved with a dead faith.
Two have answered no.
Nobody is able to answer with a yes. They just respond without an answer so I putting them in the no column until they correct me and tell me....yes we can be saved with a dead faith.

 

[Kaycie]

No. How can you be dead inside spiritually and be alive inside spiritually? You are either one or the other.

 

[Babylonisfalling]

Come on people. We are saved by a living God!

Yes....and as the Bible says, Faith without works is dead.
Sorry.....it's just Biblical.
Are we saved with a dead faith?

 

[Babylonisfalling]

see, this seems to be a works salvation angle. we have seen this worded differently, but all in all seems to be driving at a works theme.

Works without faith will not save.
Nobody said that.

 

[gb9]

works do not save. neither does faith. GRACE saves, through faith. you know, their are many many more verses than James 2 - 17. you quote this over and over, we understand your position. it is a wrong position, but we get it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Works without faith will not save.
Nobody said that.

lol.. Show me one "true" work ever done by someone who did not have faith..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No. How can you be dead inside spiritually and be alive inside spiritually? You are either one or the other.

True,

Your either an adopted, Born again, Spirit sealed child of God. who has no fear of death, and is no longer under a spirit of fear but an adopted child who has an Abba Father.

Or your still separated from God. lost with not hope.

There is no in between stage.

 

[valiant]

Yes....and as the Bible says, Faith without works is dead.
Sorry.....it's just Biblical.
Are we saved with a dead faith?

you are just playing with words. when James was talking about 'faith without works' being dead he was not talking about genuine faith. He was talking about spurious faith like the devils have when they 'believe in God'. It is an intellectual assent. Thus it is a deceitful question. Becoming the object of salvation requires a live faith, but it does not require works. It is true that works will always follow if the person lives long enough, but they are not an essential part of the faith.

if you mean by dead faith a so-called faith which is just intellectual assent, then no we cannot be saved by a dead faith.

But If by a dead faith you mean a faith initially without works then yes we can be and indeed must be saved by such a faith..

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Men don't need to see anything and God already knows. Works aren't supposed to be seen anyway. But without works, faith is still dead. Sorry but it's Biblical and it begs the question are we saved with a dead faith.
Two have answered no.
Nobody is able to answer with a yes. They just respond without an answer so I putting them in the no column until they correct me and tell me....yes we can be saved with a dead faith.

Matthew 5:14-16
king James version(KJV)

14.)Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15.)Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16.)Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
+++
Do you believe scripture should interpret and harmonize scripture and If those scriptures don't interpret or harmonize that the persons interpretaion Is In error?

If you do believe this how would you harmonize these scriptures and thank you In advance for giving a straightforward answer.
+++
John 3:16
king James version(KJV)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
+++
James 2:15-18
king James version(KJV)

15.)If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16.)And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17.)Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18.)Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

 

[Babylonisfalling]

you are just playing with words. when James was talking about 'faith without works' being dead he was not talking about genuine faith. He was talking about spurious faith like the devils have when they 'believe in God'. It is an intellectual assent. Thus it is a deceitful question. Becoming the object of salvation requires a live faith, but it does not require works. It is true that works will always follow if the person lives long enough, but they are not an essential part of the faith.

if you mean by dead faith a so-called faith which is just intellectual assent, then no we cannot be saved by a dead faith.

But If by a dead faith you mean a faith initially without works then yes we can be and indeed must be saved by such a faith..

Works without faith is dead....that's not playing with words, it doesn't create definitions of convenience, multiple definitions or twisted interpretations. It's just the Bible, straightforward and simple.

By the way, I believe a living faith could be initially without works, as with the sinner on the cross next to Christ. But works must be forthcoming if the faith is to remain living. If not the faith dies. And I do not believe that a dead faith saves.

 

[valiant]

Works without faith is dead....that's not playing with words, it doesn't create definitions of convenience, multiple definitions or twisted interpretations. It's just the Bible, straightforward and simple.

By the way, I believe a living faith could be initially without works, as with the sinner on the cross next to Christ. But works must be forthcoming if the faith is to remain living. If not the faith dies. And I do not believe that a dead faith saves.

That is because you are mixed up about the different meanings of faith. A living faith does not need works. Works are merely a product of it. They are certainly not needed in order to keep faith living. Faith stands by itself as Eph 2.8-9 and many other Scriptures make clear. you problem is that you fail to see that a living faith is faith in Jesus Christ's response to my faith. I commit myself and I believe that He will save me. That is true believing. I will then grow into a more mature kind of faith IN Jesus Christ which expects much more of Him and results in and from a personal relationship. Neither require works to boost them up. Works are a by-product and are not on the same level as faith.

 

[Babylonisfalling]

That is because you are mixed up about the different meanings of faith. A living faith does not need works. Works are merely a product of it. They are certainly not needed in order to keep faith living. Faith stands by itself as Eph 2.8-9 and many other Scriptures make clear. you problem is that you fail to see that a living faith is faith in Jesus Christ's response to my faith. I commit myself and I believe that He will save me. That is true believing. I will then grow into a more mature kind of faith IN Jesus Christ which expects much more of Him and results in and from a personal relationship. Neither require works to boost them up. Works are a by-product and are not on the same level as faith.

It's not living without works...Faith without works is dead. Sorry, it's Biblical.

 

[Babylonisfalling]

Matthew 5:14-16
king James version(KJV)

14.)Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15.)Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16.)Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
+++
Do you believe scripture should interpret and harmonize scripture and If those scriptures don't interpret or harmonize that the persons interpretaion Is In error?

If you do believe this how would you harmonize these scriptures and thank you In advance for giving a straightforward answer.
+++
John 3:16
king James version(KJV)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
+++
James 2:15-18
king James version(KJV)

15.)If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16.)And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17.)Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18.)Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

I don't think it's OUT of harmony. Apparently you see it that way. So I won't be attempting to harmonize something that's already harmonious. Maybe you should explain why you think it's out of harmony.

Have you given a straightforward answer to the question in this post? I believe you thanked me earlier for a straightforward answer and you mention it again in this post.
What's your straightforward answer?
Regardless of all the theological arguments we know dead faith exists, because it's addressed and defined in the Book of James. So.....Are we saved with a dead faith?

 

[valiant]

It's not living without works...Faith without works is dead. Sorry, it's Biblical.

a phrase taken out of context is not Biblical

 

[Babylonisfalling]

It's not out of context.
It's pretty clear most of you guys don't care about context anyway.