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Slander and maligning are the most common manifestations of the flesh on these boards? I would disagree, I would say it is pride and boasting.
However, I know what you mean, when people speak of the whole message they are often accused( or it is inferred) they believe in a works based gospel, are legalists', proud, trying to earn their way to heaven etc. As you say, slandering and maligning.
You didn't answer my question. In your view, can someone who understands true grace constantly follow after the flesh all their life rather than the spirit?
However, I know what you mean, when people speak of the whole message they are often accused( or it is inferred) they believe in a works based gospel, are legalists', proud, trying to earn their way to heaven etc. As you say, slandering and maligning.
You didn't answer my question. In your view, can someone who understands true grace constantly follow after the flesh all their life rather than the spirit?
This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....however there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
God sets apart ( sanctifies )our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. ( this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal
Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )
Sanctification to our "religious minds" could mean a lot of different things to different people as it depends on the religious beliefs formulated from our backgrounds....like..no smoking..no drinking..no going to church..no reading your bible every day..no praying for an hour each day.....no going to a movie...reading a newspaper...no being a servant of God...no doing "what I don't do.."..etc
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....however there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
God sets apart ( sanctifies )our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. ( this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal
Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )
Sanctification to our "religious minds" could mean a lot of different things to different people as it depends on the religious beliefs formulated from our backgrounds....like..no smoking..no drinking..no going to church..no reading your bible every day..no praying for an hour each day.....no going to a movie...reading a newspaper...no being a servant of God...no doing "what I don't do.."..etc
I agree that boasting and pride are the "biggies" too...
To me....when people start to attack the person personally....that's when the real spirit of what is driving the person starts to really come out.....if you ever noticed when Jesus was dealing with the Pharisees..He would give them the word of God..they couldn't refute it..so then they started to attack Him personally.... and then conspire with other people like the Saduccees to attack Him....it's the nature of the beast as they say...
To me....when people start to attack the person personally....that's when the real spirit of what is driving the person starts to really come out.....if you ever noticed when Jesus was dealing with the Pharisees..He would give them the word of God..they couldn't refute it..so then they started to attack Him personally.... and then conspire with other people like the Saduccees to attack Him....it's the nature of the beast as they say...
I agree that boasting and pride are the "biggies" too...
To me....when people start to attack the person personally....that's when the real spirit of what is driving the person starts to really come out.....if you ever noticed when Jesus was dealing with the Pharisees..He would give them the word of God..they couldn't refute it..so then they started to attack Him personally.... and then conspire with other people like the Saduccees to attack Him....it's the nature of the beast as they say...
To me....when people start to attack the person personally....that's when the real spirit of what is driving the person starts to really come out.....if you ever noticed when Jesus was dealing with the Pharisees..He would give them the word of God..they couldn't refute it..so then they started to attack Him personally.... and then conspire with other people like the Saduccees to attack Him....it's the nature of the beast as they say...
But yes, people distort what you write, make out you write what you haven't and attack you personally if they cannot refute your scriptures.
Likewise, you know what is driving someone who boasts and tries to impress others, not a desire to bring glory to God but themselves
..define follow after the flesh....
because in real life...if someone has a problem with over-eating....that's called gluttony....that is of the flesh.... but if they grow in the grace of Jesus and His life flows through them..then they will not have to be dominated by the flesh anymore.....but if they only got told "..just stop eating...gluttony is a sin..."..there is no grace of God in that...if that is all they heard.....they will die having been a glutton all their life...and it's a shame because the grace of the gospel of Christ would bring victory for them in that area..or any area..
because in real life...if someone has a problem with over-eating....that's called gluttony....that is of the flesh.... but if they grow in the grace of Jesus and His life flows through them..then they will not have to be dominated by the flesh anymore.....but if they only got told "..just stop eating...gluttony is a sin..."..there is no grace of God in that...if that is all they heard.....they will die having been a glutton all their life...and it's a shame because the grace of the gospel of Christ would bring victory for them in that area..or any area..
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You were happy yesterday to make a blanket statement that if someone followed after the flesh all their life they would still attain heaven. Based on your statement i asked you if that applied to those who understood true grace. According to the statement you made yesterday, you appear not to want to give an answer specifically to it today
No I had nothing in mind specifically, just repeating your own statement.
I will assume you are unsure if someone who understands true grace can follow after the flesh all their life or not
No I had nothing in mind specifically, just repeating your own statement.
I will assume you are unsure if someone who understands true grace can follow after the flesh all their life or not
G
I am hyper-grace. I don't believe we can honestly call grace anything other than that.
For the Born-again believer who does not abide.....its going to be a rough road. discipline,possibly the sin unto death, shame in the face of the Lord,loss of eternal rewards, salvation as if through fire
But really stop and think about this one. Loss of reign and rank in the eternal state. this is not a loss of a lollipop here. For All of eternity,trillions,trillions,trillions,trillions,trillions of years and that is just the beginning of eternity......they are going to be a shoe shiner to those who reign with Him because they didn't abide. Forever having those rewards on account and never being able to have them.
salvation is by hyper-grace, but our rewards and reign and rank depend on our deeds.......and those are no small matter as most seem to think.
Now for those that think salvation can lost, and grace is not hyper and believe that they have to work or have proof for their salvation.....................they are in the same boat as the believer who just "sinned away". worthless human works that did not glorify God. They will be right next to the shoe shiner serving those that advanced in His Grace and knowledge.
Our reign and rank in the eternal state is no small matter, we can reign with Him or be servants to Him and those who advanced in the Christian way of life.
And the majority are not advancing because they think that their human good has to abide to be saved.
We believe and trust in Christ and His finished work on the Cross for salvation. We abide in Him to advance in the Christian way of life and Glorify Him in time. For which we are rewarded by Him. Salvation is a gift.
For the Born-again believer who does not abide.....its going to be a rough road. discipline,possibly the sin unto death, shame in the face of the Lord,loss of eternal rewards, salvation as if through fire
But really stop and think about this one. Loss of reign and rank in the eternal state. this is not a loss of a lollipop here. For All of eternity,trillions,trillions,trillions,trillions,trillions of years and that is just the beginning of eternity......they are going to be a shoe shiner to those who reign with Him because they didn't abide. Forever having those rewards on account and never being able to have them.
salvation is by hyper-grace, but our rewards and reign and rank depend on our deeds.......and those are no small matter as most seem to think.
Now for those that think salvation can lost, and grace is not hyper and believe that they have to work or have proof for their salvation.....................they are in the same boat as the believer who just "sinned away". worthless human works that did not glorify God. They will be right next to the shoe shiner serving those that advanced in His Grace and knowledge.
Our reign and rank in the eternal state is no small matter, we can reign with Him or be servants to Him and those who advanced in the Christian way of life.
And the majority are not advancing because they think that their human good has to abide to be saved.
We believe and trust in Christ and His finished work on the Cross for salvation. We abide in Him to advance in the Christian way of life and Glorify Him in time. For which we are rewarded by Him. Salvation is a gift.
...everyone can follow after the flesh.....the person I described as being stuck with over-eating and gluttony all their life and never heard of the true grace of Christ....they were in the flesh.....is this an example of what you mean by following after the flesh their whole life?
Grace.."teaches' us to live godly...how that takes shape might be different with everyone.
There is always a walking out of our inner life in Christ that will eventually reflect in our behavior as we behold Christ.
"attaining heaven" is not attained by behavior..it is a gift of God.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 11:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Grace.."teaches' us to live godly...how that takes shape might be different with everyone.
There is always a walking out of our inner life in Christ that will eventually reflect in our behavior as we behold Christ.
"attaining heaven" is not attained by behavior..it is a gift of God.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 11:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
You need to move beyond first base as it were, by keep stressing heaven is not attained by our behaviour, obeying the law, being good enough. It is about following after the holy spirit in our lives. As Paul said:
If you are led by the spirit you are not under law.
I just think it strange yesterday you made a blanket statement a person can follow after the flesh rather than the spirit all their life and attain heaven. You didn't then seek to define any specific thing today you are.
Why not just copy paste Gal 5:16-18 I am sure you will agree with it. It is part of Paul's gospel message
If you are led by the spirit you are not under law.
I just think it strange yesterday you made a blanket statement a person can follow after the flesh rather than the spirit all their life and attain heaven. You didn't then seek to define any specific thing today you are.
Why not just copy paste Gal 5:16-18 I am sure you will agree with it. It is part of Paul's gospel message
I was trying to answer the question you said I keep avoiding....trying to define what you meant.....
I do not believe our salvation is based on us..I believe it is based on Jesus and His finished work....the "attaining heaven" statement is foreign to me.
..answer me about the woman that is over-eating all the time and is technically a glutton...and she is definitely in the flesh...would she attain heaven?
I do not believe our salvation is based on us..I believe it is based on Jesus and His finished work....the "attaining heaven" statement is foreign to me.
..answer me about the woman that is over-eating all the time and is technically a glutton...and she is definitely in the flesh...would she attain heaven?