Are you a BELIEVER who is also an enemy of the Cross of Christ???

Depleted · Jan 31, 2017

Roman? (I'm just going to call you Roman, after your username. Much easier that writing out the whole user name.)

Are you okay? Have you been diagnosed with anything serious and fear you won't live very long?

That's my fear for why your posting so many heavy-duty topics so quickly.

If not, (and I really hope not), are you well aware of the fact that you do NOT have to prove every single theory you have to all of us within the first day you sign up here?

Seriously, man! S. L. O. W. Down! You're giving me the jitters!

And, really? Since you just posted three bombs onto one board, you'll either be spending the next week constantly trying to keep up with the firestorm you just caused or will have to give up out of sheer fatigue.

Next time? Try one storm at a time.

(Hey, I'm old. I'm not going to watch some video just because you tell me to, and considering it does seem like you want to cause a storm, I'm just headed back out of the storm's path. Sometimes age gives us common sense, even if we never got the wisdom. lol)

But, yo! Welcome to the site. And, truly, good luck! You'll need it now.

Grace777x70 · Jan 31, 2017

RomansToPhilemon said:

I see what you are saying and I agree in principal.

Where I might differ is that some have said that the epistle of James is not for us today because he was writing to the 12 tribes scattered abroad. The reason is that they can't see the difference between what Paul says about grace and faith and what James says about show me your faith by your works.

Personally I have no problem with James and Paul and they are not in conflict at all. ( but that is for a different thread )

Here is my view on the difference between the 4 gospels and Paul's epistles. So, we don't throw out or dismiss any scriptures - we just look at it through the eyes of the Holy Spirit and the purpose for it in the first place.

The proclamation of Christ produces the profession of Christ, but the explanation of Christ is what produces the experience of Christ.

Believers can never fully enjoy the triumph of the gospel and express Christ in this world victoriously until there has been an explanation and exposition of the vivid details of the redemptive work of Christ that has gained a foothold in our renewed minds.

The 4 gospels were eyewitness accounts of the historical events in the life and ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ. Christianity is based on the veracity of these events as having occurred in real time, in all historicity and specificity.

Nevertheless it is the unveiling of the spiritual realities of these events that relates to the believer in Christ. This is found in the revelation that the Lord Jesus Christ gave to the apostle Paul.

The 4 gospels are the proclamation of the gospel. They disclose to us what men saw. Acts of the apostles is the demonstration of the gospel, but it is Paul's letters which give us an explanation of the gospel. It is the Pauline Epistles that are the constitution of this church age as in the explanation of the gospel.

Paul's epistles explain what happened from the cross, death, burial, quickening and resurrection to the being seated at the right hand of the Father. Without these epistles we would have no idea what Jesus our Lord actually accomplished for us.

Paul was taught by Jesus Christ Himself to explain His gospel = to reveal the mystery that was hidden in God until it was revealed by Christ to Paul. The mystery being Christ Himself and the riches of that glory is that Christ is in us and we are in Him!

Ariel82 · Jan 31, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

He doesn't have a dual gospel..,i have counted at least 3.

It's like a train wreck, it's hard to look away.

Not even acid rain but wells without water.

RomansToPhilemon · Jan 31, 2017

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me (Paul), as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

Looks like two gospels. And Paul rightly divides his from Peters.

"Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith."

Looks like Paul is rightly dividing here again. Israel was justified "by faith" where as today we are justified "through faith." If it's all the same thing, than why is Paul making all of these DIVISIONS? God clearly says that by faith and through faith are not the same! One gospel is of works, as James states. The other is not of works. As Paul states!

"Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands"

Lets dissect it even more. Paul states that he is the wise master builder and he lays the foundation. Not Peter!

"According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I (Paul) have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

Paul warns believers to take heed how he builds on the foundation of Christ. And he goes on talking about rewards. Let's see what he means by taking heed with some more verses!

"Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man’s foundation:"

What other foundation could Paul possibly lay on? Israel's foundation. You know, those other books in the bible. Very easy to start mixing Prophecy with mystery. They did it in Paul's day; how much more in our day. Paul clearly says, and rightly divides his gospel here. Paul preaches his gospel; not the gospel where Christ was named! It's so clear and plain English my friends.

So here, another proof that Paul's gospel isn't the same as Peter's gospel. Paul states he preaches the gospel, NOT WHERE CHRIST WAS NAMED. Where was Christ named? Israel. Who's gospel is that? Peter's, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. Etc...And what does Paul say after this. Paul states that if you build on the foundation where Christ was named, you are building on ANOTHER man's foundation. Not Paul's. --Another Jesus. Another gospel. Another FOUNDATION!

Paul's foundation laid should not be built on a different gospel. Another Jesus. This is what Paul means when he says "Another Jesus. Another gospel." Not what is commonly taught in church tradition which thinks this just means a false Jesus, a false gospel. Oh but the contrary!

"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we (Paul's ministry!) have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

Paul clearly warns believers that if you stray away from Paul's mystery and start building on the wrong foundation, your reward is in great jeopardy.

dcontroversal · Jan 31, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Amen.....my 2 cents.....they were saved children of God who walked worldly and had no effective witness for Jesus, but rather in action and deed portrayed the world....WORKS of wood, hay and stubble...saved, but shamed

Grace777x70 · Jan 31, 2017

RomansToPhilemon said:

Well the problem is that Paul was merely saying that Paul went to the Gentiles ( called by the Jews as the uncircumcision ) and Peter went to the Jews ( called the circumcision )

Galatians 2:7-9 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised

[SUP]8 [/SUP] (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles),

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

Peter and Paul has the same gospel - they just had different people groups that they were assigned to as their calling by the Lord of the Church.

RomansToPhilemon · Jan 31, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Yes, that is what your bible version says. The KJB says something completely different. (Compare the verses I listed with yours.) Would God have 2 bibles that say/mean different things? Or does God have a bible and Satan has a counterfeit...

The KJB is the only bible translated from the Antioch or Syrian line of manuscripts. ALL other translations use the corrupted Alexandrian, Egypt manuscripts. Satan attacks the mystery given to Paul, because it's that same mystery that defeated Satan. And it's no coincidence that the mystery truths are always the parts "changed" in new translations. Always.

"Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."

If Satan knew the mystery only revealed to Paul, the princes of this world would not have crucified Christ.

That's a profound statement. If Peter's gospel is the same. Christ would not have been crucified. Think about that!

"But if our gospel (Paul's gospel) be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not..."

Satan keeps Paul's mystery as hidden as possible. That's why I am trying to share these truths. Watch the video!

bluto · Jan 31, 2017

RomansToPhilemon said:

Actually you have a valid point rtp. This is based on Acts 20:27-31 "For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. vs28, Be on guard for yourselfves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you oversees to shepherd the church of God which He purchansed with His own blood. vs29, I know that after my departure savage wolves WILL COME IN AMONG YOU, not sparing the flock. Vs30, and from AMONG YOUR OWN SELVES MEN WILL ARISE speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. Vs31, Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each with tears."

The long and short of this is that the Church will not only be attacked from without, but also from within. And if you notice thiis is somewhat similar to what the Apostle Paul said at Philippians 3:18. Btw, I did not watch the video.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Grace777x70 · Jan 31, 2017

RomansToPhilemon said:

Sorry buddy but I don't fall for this KJ "version" is the only bible stuff and not many do.

There are tons of threads on that subject and as you will see if you are open to see - the theory that God has ordained the KJV bible of 1611 as the only one is complete foolishness and it leads to errors like Paul and Peter preached different gospels.

That bird of a different feather is not going to fly around here my friend.

I can see the original apostles progressing in the understanding of the gospel but to say that they preached different gospels is not even remotely accurate.

The mystery of Christ can be seen in other translations. It is not just "contained" in a version of 1611 - it's complete nonsense.

We have word for word accounts of the true gospel of the grace of Christ being preached by Peter and Paul and the say the same thing. Acts 10 for Peter and Acts 13 for Paul.

RomansToPhilemon · Feb 1, 2017

bluto said:

Actually you have a valid point rtp. This is based on Acts 20:27-31 "For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. vs28, Be on guard for yourselfves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you oversees to shepherd the church of God which He purchansed with His own blood. vs29, I know that after my departure savage wolves WILL COME IN AMONG YOU, not sparing the flock. Vs30, and from AMONG YOUR OWN SELVES MEN WILL ARISE speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. Vs31, Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each with tears."

The long and short of this is that the Church will not only be attacked from without, but also from within. And if you notice thiis is somewhat similar to what the Apostle Paul said at Philippians 3:18. Btw, I did not watch the video.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Great points. And great verse. Wish I had remembered it myself. Thanks.

RomansToPhilemon · Feb 1, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

I've studied the issue for 8 months 12-16 a day. Never missing a day. I am well versed on the issue. I have seen virtually all arguments and virtually all positions and beliefs. I actually wanted to hold the position you have, because I wanted to read the more "modern' language bibles. Meaning, I went into studying the issue to hopefully find that it was completely fine to use other translations.

Unfortunately, after thousand of hours of study. It was painstakingly obvious that only the KJB is translated from the correct manuscripts. I do not hold to the position, as many do in the KJB only people, that it's inspired by God. Meaning God held the hands of the authors. God persevered the correct manuscripts and translating from those to another language is completely biblical and scriptural; not to mention, examples and precedents of this very thing in our bible.

Sam Gip, while sometimes crude, does a good analysis of Antioch vs Alexandrian manuscripts. He takes a more spiritual angle on the issue. While there are many other angles that one can take, I find this one to be a interesting take. Again, it's a video. God forbid another video!

[video=youtube;dEI86i23yvE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEI86i23yvE[/video]

RomansToPhilemon · Feb 1, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

As to address your issue about Peter and Paul's gospel being the same. How does Paul say that Christ would not have been crucified if Peter's gospel was the same as Paul's? How do you reconcile that? Also, how do you reconcile Paul saying that the mystery revealed to him was not after man, nor was he taught it, nor did he received it from man, but only by revelation of Jesus Christ? How can Christ give Paul something never written about, never prophesied about, never revealed before to Peter, when Christ says he gave it to Paul?? How do you reconcile these things?

But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel (Paul's gospel. He says My), and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Now you know good and well something known since the world began cannot and never will be something made secret since the world began.

Compare that with Peter in Acts 3.21 where he says everything he preaches was MADE KNOWN before the world began.

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

phil36 · Feb 1, 2017

[FONT=&quot]4So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 Peter 3:14-16[/FONT]

phil36 · Feb 1, 2017

And just to further show how wrong you are 'Roman' regarding 2 gospels.

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question.7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Acts 15:6ff

Grace777x70 · Feb 1, 2017

RomansToPhilemon said:

I simply do not fall for this KJV 1611 nonsense that it is the only bible. There are many that have used the KJV and from it they get all kinds of crazy ideas so it has nothing to do with a "version" itself.

The problem with KJV only is that they can make the bible out to be God and it is NOT God. The KJV bible is also not the Holy Spirit who reveals the truth of Jesus to us.

I do agree that Paul was the one through whom the Lord Jesus used to reveal the "mystery" of Christ and of the riches of that mystery which is Christ in us and to explain the gospel out in terms of what happened from the cross to the throne and thus what happened to the believer as well - the original apostles had very little idea of.

That's why I say they grew in their understanding of the gospel. But they preached Christ crucified and risen again and that through His name everyone who believes receives the forgiveness of sins.

But to say that Peter and Paul had different gospels is wrong any many levels and that statement is mis-leading . Look at Acts 10 where Peter is speaking to the Gentiles - it is a word for word account of the gospel being preached.

Now read Paul in Acts 13 where Paul is speaking to the Jews ( which is ironic because they are each preaching t0othe other groups that they were called to preach too. )

In Acts 13 - we have a word for word account of the gospel being preached ( Paul was longer preaching to the Jews because of their religious background and thus had to address some things to them ).. Paul's message of the gospel was exactly the same as Peter's in Acts 10.

Thanks for the video but for some reason they are not showing up on my screen - instead they are just "black".

To tell you the truth I would not watch this particular one as I have as much interest in talking about which manuscripts are which - as I do about what is the ant population in the Amazon jungle. I would however watch your other vides if I could see them...

JustWhoIAm · Feb 1, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

'nuff said.

RomansToPhilemon · Feb 1, 2017

phil36 said:

They are hard to understand. This is why I'm trying to help you understand them. I also find it interesting how Peter rightly divides Paul's epistles from the rest of the bible. Interesting division Peter makes....Thank you for making my point for me. But I'll post the verse from the KJB ;P

Like i said in other previous posts, the mystery truths are ALWAYSthe doctrines attacked by Satan in the new translations. ALWAYS. That's not a coincidence my friend.

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

So strange how Peter separates Paul's epistles like that. Why does your version verse differ so much from mine? They say completely different things...does God have 2 or more versions of his word? No. God has his word and Satan has his counterfeit(s).

NayborBear · Feb 1, 2017

I have NOT, nor shall I watch your video! (haven't watched ANY of the video's you've posted for that matter...lol) But having said this, I do believe I know where you, or this guy/s, er gals, are coming from with this.

Sometimes, God the Father puts IN place, "mechanisms" (if you will), that, in essence, gives a "pass" to "aspects" or, certain portions of a believer/acceptor of Our Fathers' Sacrifice of Christ on the cross! Does it break His heart?...It most CERTAINLY does! SO MUCH, that He MAKES them BELIEVE a LIE! "I" don't know the reason/s for this, and I certainly believe YOU don't either! But Our Father KNOWS! I tend to lean in the direction that He KNOWS that if given the information that it seems you are trying to put forth in such a condescending manner, that, there runs the "risk" of committing the unpardonable sin!...But, thaz just MY belief, and opinion! This, is to be continued in the NEXT earth age! As for this current earth/heaven age? You should feel heartened that you are "sounding the alarm", so to speak, and get used to having your posts ignored, like I have!

(hint)...Read Psalms-110:1 (ring any bells?)

RomansToPhilemon · Feb 1, 2017

NayborBear said:

God says there must be heresies among us so that the truth can be made evident. So, in that sense, yes error must exist. I don't base my beliefs on my own opinions. I believe what the bible says, and I follow that. So no, your argument isn't based on reality dealing with me. If you want to have a conversation, watch the video. Otherwise you have no arguments. You are just arguing with yourself because you don't even know my position!

phil36 · Feb 1, 2017

RomansToPhilemon said:

I find it strange that you can find a way to divide what scripture says. The quotes provided are simple enough. Paul and Peter preach the same gospel (Peter says so).

Could you explain how Peter rightly 'divides Paul's writings (using scripture)

When Peter wrote to his audience he was answering specific points. Obviously his readers had read Paul's writings (or some of them) and that is why Peter replied to his audience to show that some things Paul says are not easy to understand.. All Christians experience this. When refer to scriptures perspicuity not all things are straight away clear,,, but the gospel is to all. Thats is the one Gospel throughout all scripture.

I do like the warning Peter gives regarding the ignorant and unstable people distort.(unlearned and unstable wrest). That should be a warning enough for you.

I'l repost the scripture for you.

And just to further show how wrong you are 'Roman' regarding 2 gospels.

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question.7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Acts 15:6ff

4So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

2 Peter 3:14-16

I believe your views are unsubstantiated, distorting scripture and a quack fringe movement, which is dangerous to Christians and to those who need to hear the gospel and the whole counsel of God. Not some nut job hyper dispensationalism, mixed with the King James only cult!

Dangerous teachings indeed.

Are you a BELIEVER who is also an enemy of the Cross of Christ???

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