Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

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Are you a Trinitarian, and can you defend the doctrine?

  • Yes, I am a Trinitarian, and I can defend the doctrine.

    Votes: 36 63.2%
  • Yes, I am a Trinitarian, but I cannot defend the doctrine.

    Votes: 2 3.5%
  • No, I deny the doctrine of the Trinity.

    Votes: 16 28.1%
  • I don't know if the Trinity is true or false.

    Votes: 3 5.3%

  • Total voters
    57

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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These are referring to angels. Stars are referred to as stars a few times in the bible, with Revelation 12 coming to mind.
Fail

Heb 1:
4So He became as far superior to the angels as the name He has inherited is excellent beyond theirs. 5For to which of the angels did God ever say:“You are My Son;today I have become Your Father”c ?Or again:“I will be His Father,and He will be My Son”
 
Oct 25, 2018
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Fail

Heb 1:
4So He became as far superior to the angels as the name He has inherited is excellent beyond theirs. 5For to which of the angels did God ever say:“You are My Son;today I have become Your Father”c ?Or again:“I will be His Father,and He will be My Son”
Right. The angels, not one of them is the Father’s Son. That’s the context you are repeatedly failing to see.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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Right. The angels, not one of them is the Father’s Son. That’s the context you are repeatedly failing to see.
Ok, now that we know they were not angels, who are these:

Job 38:
4“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
..........
7while the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God a shouted for joy?

Pro 8:
29When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,679
1,906
113
Your repeated claims about what you think the bible teaches doesn't make Trinity to be true; maybe it is but from your explanation, so far it doesn't hold much water.

I'm not a oneness guy, i don't ascribe quantities to God. The oneness of God has nothing to do with quantity but His attributes (meaning He Alone). For example, He alone is the creator of the universe, otherwise God is spirit.

The relationship between the Father/Son/Holy spirit is as explained in the bible, they are not persons but authorities of God whose holder is Jesus.

Isa 9:
6For unto us a child is born,
unto us a son is given,
and the government will be upon His shoulders.
And He will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

This one child has these authorities:

1. Eternal Father = Father
2. Son = Son
3. Wonderful Counselor = Holy spirit

Q. How many persons are we talking about here?
You are teaching Oneness theology.

And, as I said, it is a sock-puppet theology that denies the distinct personhood of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and the relationships within the Triune God.

It is an incoherent view of Scripture, as it does not account for Jesus interceding for mankind to the Father, as well as any other interpersonal activity within the Triune God.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,679
1,906
113
:poop:

We can actually read and write these day you know.
Well, I should not have said this..actually I have no problem with women Sunday School teachers, or teaching other women, or teaching juvenile males.

My real issue is with women senior pastors. There is no such thing. I also don't believe in women exerting inappropriate dominance over males (of course I don't deny motherhood involves this, but it is appropriate).
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
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Ok, now that we know they were not angels, who are these:

Job 38:
4“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
..........
7while the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God a shouted for joy?

Pro 8:
29When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
Job 38 is referring to angels.

Proverbs 8 the sons of men are His chosen ppl. Or thats how it appears to me. I need to study this out more.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,679
1,906
113
I usually just show how the Trinity works via a demonstration. I find people understand this much better.

Lets say you have a three trillion gallon water reservoir and every drop of that water is exactly the same throughout, in other words the chemical make up or PHD is the exact same in every drop of water.

Now lets say a person decides to pour 100 gallons (Jesus) of water over his head, he will be soaking wet, but he will survive. Now lets say the same person decides to pour another 100 gallons (Holy Spirit) of water over his head, again, he will be OK, but he will of course be soaking wet. Now for the grand finale, lets say that same person takes the full Three Trillion Gallons of Water and pours it over his head, that person will surely die because of the volume ( Abundance of God's Glory) of water.

All of the water has the exact same makeup, just like God the Father, Jesus the Redeemer (Son) and the Holy Spirit all have the exact same properties, they are Love, Hope, Peace, Joy, Kindness, Forgiving, Long-suffering etc. etc. etc. just like every drop of water is exactly the same throughout, but the Abundance of the Glory remains with the Father. We could not have the Holy Spirit living in our heart if it was the Abundance of the Glory no man can look at, even Moses whom looking at the hinder parts turned his hair white, but the Holy Spirit can live in our hearts, because he is God, but hes not the Father. Likewise Jesus is the LIKENESS of the Father but he is not the Father who has the Abundance of the Glory !! Men could look upon Jesus, if they looked upon God they would be consumed like the 70 who looked into the Ark of the Covenant.
I am not sure I understand, but at this point it doesn't sound anti-Trinitarian.

Maybe when I drink a few cups of coffee I might change my mind.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
You are teaching Oneness theology.

And, as I said, it is a sock-puppet theology that denies the distinct personhood of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and the relationships within the Triune God.

It is an incoherent view of Scripture, as it does not account for Jesus interceding for mankind to the Father, as well as any other interpersonal activity within the Triune God.
Jesus interceding for mankind doesn't prove Trinity.

I asked you earlier, when the Father lives in Jesus (one person), does Jesus become two persons or does He remain one person?

Answering such questions will help in understanding Trinity and perhaps defend the doctrine, not your constant opinions of what you think of 'cults'
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
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I am not sure I understand, but at this point it doesn't sound anti-Trinitarian.

Maybe when I drink a few cups of coffee I might change my mind.
Coffee, blame it on the coffee. Suuuuuuuuuuure!!!

☕️☕️🍩☕️☕️🍩☕️☕️🍩☕️☕️🍩🍩🍩

That should get you started. 👍
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,679
1,906
113
Jesus interceding for mankind doesn't prove Trinity.

I asked you earlier, when the Father lives in Jesus (one person), does Jesus become two persons or does He remain one person?

Answering such questions will help in understanding Trinity and perhaps defend the doctrine, not your constant opinions of what you think of 'cults'
Jesus is one Person, the Father is one Person. The Holy Spirit is one Person.

They mutually indwell one another.

Therefore, they retain their distinct Personhood regardless of this indwelling.

This indwelling is exactly part of being one God...It is called coessentiality..they share the same essence.

What is so difficult about this that you cannot understand? It is straightforward.
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,191
113
Well, I should not have said this..actually I have no problem with women Sunday School teachers, or teaching other women, or teaching juvenile males.

My real issue is with women senior pastors. There is no such thing. I also don't believe in women exerting inappropriate dominance over males (of course I don't deny motherhood involves this, but it is appropriate).
You must not have had your ☕️☕️☕️☕️☕️☕️ When you posted it.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Job 38 is referring to angels.

Proverbs 8 the sons of men are His chosen ppl. Or thats how it appears to me. I need to study this out more.
Job 38 says all sons of God rejoiced at creation.
Hebrews 1 says no angel has ever been called a son of God
So, Job 38 is not talking about angels.

Proverbs 8 says wisdom delighted with sons of men at creation.

So?!

The idea that Jesus is God because He pre existed doesn't hold much water. Everyone existed within the spirit of God because it is from God that we get our being. When the spirit of God is taken away, you disappear also.

Q. When were you created? Is it when your parents conceived you?
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,679
1,906
113
Jesus interceding for mankind doesn't prove Trinity.

I asked you earlier, when the Father lives in Jesus (one person), does Jesus become two persons or does He remain one person?

Answering such questions will help in understanding Trinity and perhaps defend the doctrine, not your constant opinions of what you think of 'cults'
Jesus interceding for mankind does prove more than one Person within the Triune God.

The other intercessor is the Holy Spirit, who is like Jesus but is not Jesus.

It's really rather sinple. My point is that interpersonal activity within the Triune God refutes Oneness theology.

Their view can be likened to a puppeteer who uses sock-puppets. He takes one off, and puts on another, whenever the appropriate character is played. This is incoherent, and denies the reality of interpersonal relationships within the Triune God.

But, I'm guessing I could say this a bazillion times and you would still deny it.
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,191
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Jesus interceding for mankind does prove more than one Person within the Triune God.

The other intercessor is the Holy Spirit, who is like Jesus but is not Jesus.

It's really rather sinple. My point is that interpersonal activity within the Triune God refutes Oneness theology.

Their view can be likened to a puppeteer who uses sock-puppets. He takes one off, and puts on another, whenever the appropriate character is played. This is incoherent, and denies the reality of interpersonal relationships within the Triune God.

But, I'm guessing I could say this a bazillion times and you would still deny it.
Yes!
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Jesus is one Person, the Father is one Person. The Holy Spirit is one Person.

They mutually indwell one another.

Therefore, they retain their distinct Personhood regardless of this indwelling.

This indwelling is exactly part of being one God...It is called coessentiality..they share the same essence.

What is so difficult about this that you cannot understand? It is straightforward.
The part i don't understand is the part you say the man Jesus was three persons. Three persons because the Father and the Holy spirit indwelled Him.

And you want to call others 'cults'

Good luck.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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Job 38 says all sons of God rejoiced at creation.
Hebrews 1 says no angel has ever been called a son of God
So, Job 38 is not talking about angels.

Proverbs 8 says wisdom delighted with sons of men at creation.

So?!

The idea that Jesus is God because He pre existed doesn't hold much water. Everyone existed within the spirit of God because it is from God that we get our being. When the spirit of God is taken away, you disappear also.

Q. When were you created? Is it when your parents conceived you?
Hebrews 1 is asking to which of the angels has God begotten them as He did the Son. Zilch, zero. Job 1:6 and 2:1 also refer to angels as sons of God.

But Hebrews 1 is showing the Christ’s superiority over angels, over every thing. Just like Paul called Timothy his son, it didn’t mean Paul was literally his dad. The angels are sons of God, but they’re created beings. The Son is God the Son.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Jesus interceding for mankind does prove more than one Person within the Triune God.

The other intercessor is the Holy Spirit, who is like Jesus but is not Jesus.

It's really rather sinple. My point is that interpersonal activity within the Triune God refutes Oneness theology.

Their view can be likened to a puppeteer who uses sock-puppets. He takes one off, and puts on another, whenever the appropriate character is played. This is incoherent, and denies the reality of interpersonal relationships within the Triune God.

But, I'm guessing I could say this a bazillion times and you would still deny it.
How does Jesus interceding prove three persons in one being?

Does Moses interceding for the Jews make Him a triune man?
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
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How does Jesus interceding prove three persons in one being?

Does Moses interceding for the Jews make Him a triune man?
Who was Christ interceding for and to Whom? His ppl and the Father. He said He and the Father are one, and this could not be if the Christ is a created being.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Hebrews 1 is asking to which of the angels has God begotten them as He did the Son. Zilch, zero. Job 1:6 and 2:1 also refer to angels as sons of God.

But Hebrews 1 is showing the Christ’s superiority over angels, over every thing. Just like Paul called Timothy his son, it didn’t mean Paul was literally his dad. The angels are sons of God, but they’re created beings. The Son is God the Son.
Hebrews 1 says no angel has ever been called a son of God, which means Job 1 and Job 2 and Job 38 are not angels.

A son can only be begotten of the Father and that title is not for angels.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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Hebrews 1 says no angel has ever been called a son of God, which means Job 1 and Job 2 and Job 38 are not angels.

A son can only be begotten of the Father and that title is not for angels.
So, who was with God when Satan came to Him in Job 1:6 and 2:1? It certainly wasn’t humans.