Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

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Are you a Trinitarian, and can you defend the doctrine?

  • Yes, I am a Trinitarian, and I can defend the doctrine.

    Votes: 21 72.4%
  • Yes, I am a Trinitarian, but I cannot defend the doctrine.

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • No, I deny the doctrine of the Trinity.

    Votes: 5 17.2%
  • I don't know if the Trinity is true or false.

    Votes: 2 6.9%

  • Total voters
    29

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,041
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Who was Christ interceding for and to Whom? His ppl and the Father. He said He and the Father are one, and this could not be if the Christ is a created being.
Christ is one with the Father in the same manner He is one with believers:
John 17:21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

I see nothing supporting Trinity here
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
3,539
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I accept the trinity by faith.
Not because someone explained it.

It is out of mans mind.

Most any eternal concept is.
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,686
862
113
What do you mean who was with God, No one was with God.
It says that when the sons of God presented themselves before God, Satan came before God, too.

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.[Job 1:6]

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.[Job 2:1]

Who are these sons of God?
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,377
1,243
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The part i don't understand is the part you say the man Jesus was three persons. Three persons because the Father and the Holy spirit indwelled Him.

And you want to call others 'cults'

Good luck.
You are totally misunderstanding what I am saying.

The three persons of the Triune God indwell one another. They are coessential, sharing the same "substance" or "being".

This is the meaning of "one God" in the Trinity definition.

This isn't claiming Jesus is three Persons. Jesus is one Person of the Triune God. He has a dual nature, being both man and God. Jesus indwells the Father and Holy Spirit. The Father indwells Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit indwells the Father and Son.

This is what it means to be co-essential, and to be "one God".

I think the problem is that a fleshly man cannot understand spiritual things. My words will simply bounce off your forehead like it is made of flint. That is what God told Ezekiel (ch. 3) would happen when he tried to preach to Israelites, and that is what is happening here.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,377
1,243
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How does Jesus interceding prove three persons in one being?

Does Moses interceding for the Jews make Him a triune man?
Your question is nonsense.

You have been implying a Oneness view of God.

I said that Oneness theology is incoherent, because of interpersonal activity between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Bringing up analogies with Moses is incoherent because Moses and the Israelites are not God.

I simply cannot reason with you because you are not rational.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,041
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Your question is nonsense.

You have been implying a Oneness view of God.

I said that Oneness theology is incoherent, because of interpersonal activity between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Bringing up analogies with Moses is incoherent because Moses and the Israelites are not God.

I simply cannot reason with you because you are not rational.
How does interceding prove Trinity? Explain, that's all i'm asking for.

Interpersonal activities between the Father, son and the Holy spirit does not prove Trinity, if it does, please explain.

Yes, i'm bringing up Moses as an example of one who interceded because i really want to know how interceding can prove trinity.
If you can't, no need to get angry, just say so.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,041
931
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You are totally misunderstanding what I am saying.

The three persons of the Triune God indwell one another. They are coessential, sharing the same "substance" or "being".

This is the meaning of "one God" in the Trinity definition.

This isn't claiming Jesus is three Persons. Jesus is one Person of the Triune God. He has a dual nature, being both man and God. Jesus indwells the Father and Holy Spirit. The Father indwells Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit indwells the Father and Son.

This is what it means to be co-essential, and to be "one God".

I think the problem is that a fleshly man cannot understand spiritual things. My words will simply bounce off your forehead like it is made of flint. That is what God told Ezekiel (ch. 3) would happen when he tried to preach to Israelites, and that is what is happening here.
The Father does not indwell the Holy spirit and the son also does not indwell the Holy spirit. So you are wrong when you say they indwell each other.

Even the spirit man will find it hard to explain how two persons indwell one person to be three persons in one being called Jesus. Again this person is not three but just one person- total confusion.

God is not the author of confusion nor will He ever be.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,041
931
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It says that when the sons of God presented themselves before God, Satan came before God, too.

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.[Job 1:6]

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.[Job 2:1]

Who are these sons of God?
Where does it says angels? Hebrews 1 says no angel has ever been regarded as the son of God.

Who are they?! I have asked you that question and now you are turning it back to me. These are retrospective spirits of men which are with God and have always been with God from eternal past.

Job 27:3as long as my breath is still within me and the breath of God remains in my nostrils,

Job 33:4The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Psalm 104:30When You send Your Spirit, they are created, and You renew the face of the earth.

So the uncreated spirit of God goes forth and creates by becoming the created. So all men existed with God before creation, when God withdraws the spirit, the created are demolished but the eternal goes back to God who gave. And this is how God created:

Ecc 3:9What does the worker gain from his toil? 10I have seen the burden that God has laid on men to occupy them. 11He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men, yet they cannot fathom the work that God has done from beginning to end.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,041
931
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I accept the trinity by faith.
Not because someone explained it.

It is out of mans mind.

Most any eternal concept is.
Are people allowed to accept oneness by faith too or they'll be called heretics, rounded up and burned at the stake.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
2,551
642
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Hi Noose,

Do you believe The Most High God is eternal? That he is self-existent (he has no beginning)? He has always existed?
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
222
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I am not sure I understand, but at this point it doesn't sound anti-Trinitarian.

Maybe when I drink a few cups of coffee I might change my mind.
Its basically a demonstration of what Jesus told the Pharisees, He is ONE and the SAME as the (God) Father but he is of course not the Father, hes the Son. Peter and John could not have looked upon Jesus if He was the Father, but he has the exact same LIKENESS, Love, Joy Peace etc. But Jesus is God the Son/Redeemer, he is not God the Father.

ONE in Spirit but three personages.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,377
1,243
113
The Father does not indwell the Holy spirit and the son also does not indwell the Holy spirit. So you are wrong when you say they indwell each other.

Even the spirit man will find it hard to explain how two persons indwell one person to be three persons in one being called Jesus. Again this person is not three but just one person- total confusion.

God is not the author of confusion nor will He ever be.
John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

It really isn't confusing. Making sense of your nonsense is impossible.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,041
931
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John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

It really isn't confusing. Making sense of your nonsense is impossible.
Ok, now show me where the son indwells the Holy spirit or the Father indwells the Holy spirit. I'll appreciate.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,377
1,243
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How does interceding prove Trinity? Explain, that's all i'm asking for.

Interpersonal activities between the Father, son and the Holy spirit does not prove Trinity, if it does, please explain.

Yes, i'm bringing up Moses as an example of one who interceded because i really want to know how interceding can prove trinity.
If you can't, no need to get angry, just say so.
I already did, and you can't understand.

My advice to you: get alone and pray out to God for salvation. I don't think you are saved.

It is VERY SIMPLE.

Is Jesus God?
Is the Father God?
Is the Holy Spirit God?
Is there only one God?
Does the Father relate to the Son and Spirit in interpersonal ways?
Does the Son relate to the Father and Spirit in interpersonal ways?

If the answer to all these questions is "yes" then the Trinity doctrine proven.

And, anyone who has read the NT intelligently knows that the answer to all these things is, YES.

Ray Charles could see this, and he is blind.

Trinity doctrine.jpg
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,377
1,243
113
Ok, now show me where the son indwells the Holy spirit or the Father indwells the Holy spirit. I'll appreciate.
Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

Matthew 10:20
20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of the Father..therefore the Spirit is co-essential with the Father and Son as well.
 
Feb 9, 2020
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Try these verses on;
We see Jesus take the scroll out of the hand of the Father.

REV 5
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

did your upc teachers leave out those verses?
Those verses are perfect. They are of my Husband, Jesus the Christ.

Nor do they push any form of trinitarian polytheism, no.

I am not UPC nor do I follow men's teachings.

Whoever you might be sir, I will start the same as with all men;

Here is where we start, AT THE FIRST AND FOREMOST COMMANDMENT,
(so that you don't confuse yourself with your polytheistic teachers and their man made doctrines);


Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; >>>The Lord our God is one Lord<<<:

Joh_20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Eph_4:5 One Lord,

WHO is our "One Lord God" of ALL?

Act_10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by >>>Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)<<<

Now sir... do you agree with those verse?

I agree with them perfectly. Do you? If you do, we will move forward in our conversation.
 
Feb 9, 2020
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To Everyone...

Have you or have you not yet Married Jesus Resurrected?

If so, have you conceived of His Incorruptible Seed?

If so, are you filled with His Holy Son, "Christ in you"?

If so, who is your Motther now, the Married woman?

Are you or are you not the Lamb's Wife Now To Day, bringing forth the Son of God into the World?

When you understand these things, and can relate to all the scriptures concerning this One Salvation, then all things will become clear and you will know your Lord and your God.

I will provide scriptures to all the above questions, if I see someone is truly interested in these things.

But to those who just want to argue with carnal ideas from men with their private interpretations, like the "unitedwithchrist" guy, you will get no response from me.