Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?
- Thread starter UnitedWithChrist
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
“And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:16–17 (KJV 1900)
3 persons each called God present at the same time.
3 persons each called God present at the same time.
-
1
- Show all
How is that so? Father or Son are titles that are dependent on a relationship with someone else or something other than yourself.
And you are contradicting already, if they both are coequal and co-eternal, then by which means did they decide that one be the Father and the other be the son?
What i'm trying to say is that Fathership and sonship are not authorities that are just decided, they mean what they mean- one came from the other, otherwise they are brothers.
And you are contradicting already, if they both are coequal and co-eternal, then by which means did they decide that one be the Father and the other be the son?
What i'm trying to say is that Fathership and sonship are not authorities that are just decided, they mean what they mean- one came from the other, otherwise they are brothers.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
This event was a vision- means it happened in the mind of John the baptist as a confirmation to him (John). It is arguable that the rest of the crowd did not hear the sound and did not see the dove.
Q. Was Jesus one person and one God by Himself as He stood in the water getting baptized before the dove descended and the voice spoke?
Q. Was Jesus one person and one God by Himself as He stood in the water getting baptized before the dove descended and the voice spoke?
-
1
- Show all
I am talking about an eternal relationship. The Son was begotten by the Father. This was not an event that happened in time. There was never a time when the Father was not the Father, and the Son was not the Son, and the Holy Spirit was not the Holy Spirit.
These relationships have never not existed.
Otherwise, we get into Arianism.
The fact that you can't understand how these things can be true is irrelevant. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are in eternal relationship. In fact, that is one of the things it means to be God. God is love, because there has always been another to love. God exists always in relationship.
Your problem is simply that you refuse to believe that God is not confined to your understanding of personhood. You view things in terms of the physical creation only.
These relationships have never not existed.
Otherwise, we get into Arianism.
The fact that you can't understand how these things can be true is irrelevant. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are in eternal relationship. In fact, that is one of the things it means to be God. God is love, because there has always been another to love. God exists always in relationship.
Your problem is simply that you refuse to believe that God is not confined to your understanding of personhood. You view things in terms of the physical creation only.
-
1
- Show all
i voted im trinitarian but cant defend it. reason for it is because its so complicated. ive come to accept you cant beat jews or muslims in a debate when its talking about trinity or Godhead.
they have such simplicity it cant be beaten its just one God, the Father and there it is. the Lord our God is one. no need for compound unity and all this.
but as christians you are forced to believe Jesus is God because john 1:1 1 timothy 3:16 so it complicates the matter from "just one God the Father" that jews and muslims have. now hindsight i can see Jesus everywhere in the old testament too, language like "LET US" create etc. but i completely understand why people dont get the trinity.
i have tried thousand times to explain it and heard many sermons about it and james white has a book called forgotten trinity. but they just cant escape that rebuttal of "well if three Xs are God, thats three gods" like anthony buzzard said in that debate. thats really indefensible. because they always reject the premise there can be more than one person in a being. so once they reject that, you cant convince them.
my explanation of the trinity is always the body soul and spirit i heard. humans are created in God's image and we are body soul and spirit. God is also body (Jesus) soul (Father) and spirit (Holy Spirit)
thats the simplest explanation for me. but people are not happy with it. i dont know what heresy im in by saying that. but it makes sense lolz
they have such simplicity it cant be beaten its just one God, the Father and there it is. the Lord our God is one. no need for compound unity and all this.
but as christians you are forced to believe Jesus is God because john 1:1 1 timothy 3:16 so it complicates the matter from "just one God the Father" that jews and muslims have. now hindsight i can see Jesus everywhere in the old testament too, language like "LET US" create etc. but i completely understand why people dont get the trinity.
i have tried thousand times to explain it and heard many sermons about it and james white has a book called forgotten trinity. but they just cant escape that rebuttal of "well if three Xs are God, thats three gods" like anthony buzzard said in that debate. thats really indefensible. because they always reject the premise there can be more than one person in a being. so once they reject that, you cant convince them.
my explanation of the trinity is always the body soul and spirit i heard. humans are created in God's image and we are body soul and spirit. God is also body (Jesus) soul (Father) and spirit (Holy Spirit)
thats the simplest explanation for me. but people are not happy with it. i dont know what heresy im in by saying that. but it makes sense lolz
-
1
- Show all
Spirit of Antichrist?
What if the trinity doctrine is true? It is the only view of God that separates Christianity from all other religions in the world. They all share a common rejection of the trinity as defined by the New Testament.
But if people reject the trinity doctrine, do they worship the same Christ as the Trinitarians? It is important how we answer this because John says “and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.” (1 John 4:3)
So a false Christ would provide evidence that a person is under the control of the spirit of Antichrist. This would include all religions who do not worship God in truth. In this sense, Antichrist sits in the temple (place) of God exalting himself above all that is called God.
What if the trinity doctrine is true? It is the only view of God that separates Christianity from all other religions in the world. They all share a common rejection of the trinity as defined by the New Testament.
But if people reject the trinity doctrine, do they worship the same Christ as the Trinitarians? It is important how we answer this because John says “and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.” (1 John 4:3)
So a false Christ would provide evidence that a person is under the control of the spirit of Antichrist. This would include all religions who do not worship God in truth. In this sense, Antichrist sits in the temple (place) of God exalting himself above all that is called God.
-
1
- Show all
This is the reason, to set up John as a witness:
John 1:
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is He of whom I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’ 31I myself did not know Him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that He might be revealed to Israel.”
32Then John testified, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and resting on Him. 33I myself did not know Him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.h ”
John 1:
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is He of whom I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’ 31I myself did not know Him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that He might be revealed to Israel.”
32Then John testified, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and resting on Him. 33I myself did not know Him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.h ”
-
1
- Show all
What about all the other trinitarian scriptures? Not just this one? See if you can spot the trinity in this small sample.
Matt 1:20
But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
Matt 3:16
And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;
Matt 12:18
“Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved with whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit upon him, and he will proclaim justice to the Gentiles.
Matt 12:28
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Matt 22:43
He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,
There are many. But this is a small sample of the test.
Matt 1:20
But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
Matt 3:16
And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;
Matt 12:18
“Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved with whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit upon him, and he will proclaim justice to the Gentiles.
Matt 12:28
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Matt 22:43
He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,
There are many. But this is a small sample of the test.
-
1
- Show all
I agree, i'm a human and so are you. So i will always understand things as a human and not a god and i expect also that God Himself will explain this things knowing that i'm a human. What i will never do is try to explain impossibilities; three persons in one being is not possible especially if we are certain that Jesus is one person and one being by Himself.
It is also said that all deity dwells in Him (Jesus); This means the Father and the Holy spirit dwell in Him but even as they dwell in Him, we still know Jesus as one person and one being.
It is also said that all deity dwells in Him (Jesus); This means the Father and the Holy spirit dwell in Him but even as they dwell in Him, we still know Jesus as one person and one being.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
