Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?
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The Father/Son/Holy spirit are authorities of one God (one person). As Isaiah put it:
Isa 9:
6For unto us a child is born,
unto us a son is given,
and the government will be upon His shoulders.
And He will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Name (called) = Authority, so the authorities of these child will be:
Father = Father
Son = Son
Wonderful Counselor = Holy spirit
And there's other evidences including in the book of John
Isa 9:
6For unto us a child is born,
unto us a son is given,
and the government will be upon His shoulders.
And He will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Name (called) = Authority, so the authorities of these child will be:
Father = Father
Son = Son
Wonderful Counselor = Holy spirit
And there's other evidences including in the book of John
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THE SYMBOL OF CHALCEDON One of the early Chreeds on the trinity
The Symbol of Chalcedon, adopted at the fourth and fifth sessions of the Fourth Ecumenical Council, dates back to 451 A.D.. Philip Schaff, in his Creeds of Christendom, writes of the Symbol (or Creed) of Chalcedon, “While the first Council of Nicaea had established the eternal, pre-existent Godhead of Christ, the Symbol of the Fourth Ecumenical Council relates to the incarnate Logos, as he walked upon earth and sits on the right hand of the Father. It is directed against the errors of Nestorius and Eutyches, who agreed with the Nicene Creed as opposed to Arianism, but put the Godhead of Christ in a false relation to his humanity.”3
We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [coessential] with us according to the manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning him, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.
Historic Creeds and Confessions. (1997). (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Lexham Press.
The Symbol of Chalcedon, adopted at the fourth and fifth sessions of the Fourth Ecumenical Council, dates back to 451 A.D.. Philip Schaff, in his Creeds of Christendom, writes of the Symbol (or Creed) of Chalcedon, “While the first Council of Nicaea had established the eternal, pre-existent Godhead of Christ, the Symbol of the Fourth Ecumenical Council relates to the incarnate Logos, as he walked upon earth and sits on the right hand of the Father. It is directed against the errors of Nestorius and Eutyches, who agreed with the Nicene Creed as opposed to Arianism, but put the Godhead of Christ in a false relation to his humanity.”3
We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [coessential] with us according to the manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning him, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.
Historic Creeds and Confessions. (1997). (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Lexham Press.
I simply see it as one God who came down as a human to demonstrate sonship (a surbodinate authority to that of God), so being a surbodinate, He submits to the authority of God which is now the Father while the Holy spirit is the understanding between these two authorities.
In Malachi 3/ Isa 40/ Mark 1- we are able to see how God sent Himself to earth yet we know that the Father sent the son
Isa 40:
3A voice of one calling:
“Prepare the way for the LORD in the wilderness;
make a straight highway for our God in the desert.
Mal 3:1“Behold, I will send My messenger, who will prepare the way before Me.a Then the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to His temple—the Messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight—see, He is coming,” says the LORD of Hosts.
Mark 1:
1This is the beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.a 2As it is written in Isaiah the prophetb :
“Behold, I will send My messenger ahead of You,
who will prepare Your way.”c
3“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for Him.’”d
4John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5People went out to him from all of Jerusalem and the countryside of Judea. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.
6John was clothed in camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist. His food was locusts and wild honey. 7And he began to proclaim: “After me will come One more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. 8I baptize you with water,e but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.f ”
9In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan.
It is clear from Malachi that God sends Himself but as soon as He comes to earth, the title changes to that of 'the messenger of the covenant'. So, as much as we know the Father sent the son, it is also shown that God sends Himself as a person and that the authorities change with circumstances.
In Malachi 3/ Isa 40/ Mark 1- we are able to see how God sent Himself to earth yet we know that the Father sent the son
Isa 40:
3A voice of one calling:
“Prepare the way for the LORD in the wilderness;
make a straight highway for our God in the desert.
Mal 3:1“Behold, I will send My messenger, who will prepare the way before Me.a Then the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to His temple—the Messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight—see, He is coming,” says the LORD of Hosts.
Mark 1:
1This is the beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.a 2As it is written in Isaiah the prophetb :
“Behold, I will send My messenger ahead of You,
who will prepare Your way.”c
3“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for Him.’”d
4John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5People went out to him from all of Jerusalem and the countryside of Judea. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.
6John was clothed in camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist. His food was locusts and wild honey. 7And he began to proclaim: “After me will come One more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. 8I baptize you with water,e but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.f ”
9In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan.
It is clear from Malachi that God sends Himself but as soon as He comes to earth, the title changes to that of 'the messenger of the covenant'. So, as much as we know the Father sent the son, it is also shown that God sends Himself as a person and that the authorities change with circumstances.
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In John's gospel, we see destruction of the trinity notion too:
John 14: 16And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocatef to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19In a little while, the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live.
John 16: 7But I tell you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocatea will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
The understanding.
1. The advocate (Holy spirit) was already there with the disciples because Jesus says they know Him and He abides with them
2. Unless Jesus goes, the advocate who was already there with them, will not come in them
3. Jesus does leave them as orphans, He returns to them shortly
Why is it difficult to note that Jesus is claiming to be the advocate here; He is there with them and they know Him but He must go and come back in a different form to indwell them.
Why is Jesus talking like this if indeed Him and the holy spirit are two distinct persons?
John 14: 16And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocatef to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19In a little while, the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live.
John 16: 7But I tell you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocatea will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
The understanding.
1. The advocate (Holy spirit) was already there with the disciples because Jesus says they know Him and He abides with them
2. Unless Jesus goes, the advocate who was already there with them, will not come in them
3. Jesus does leave them as orphans, He returns to them shortly
Why is it difficult to note that Jesus is claiming to be the advocate here; He is there with them and they know Him but He must go and come back in a different form to indwell them.
Why is Jesus talking like this if indeed Him and the holy spirit are two distinct persons?
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