Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

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Are you a Trinitarian, and can you defend the doctrine?

  • Yes, I am a Trinitarian, and I can defend the doctrine.

    Votes: 23 69.7%
  • Yes, I am a Trinitarian, but I cannot defend the doctrine.

    Votes: 1 3.0%
  • No, I deny the doctrine of the Trinity.

    Votes: 7 21.2%
  • I don't know if the Trinity is true or false.

    Votes: 2 6.1%

  • Total voters
    33

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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None who worship Allah will be with Him if they remain in that state upon death. None of the Jews who do not recognize the Christ as the Messiah will be with Him if they remain in that state upon death. None who believe God does not exist will be with Him if they remain in that state upon death. [John 14:6 & Acts 4:12 just for starters]
None who doesn't believe this and that .....What about a 1 year old who dies (God forbid)? Are they saved or not?
What do they have to believe about Jesus?
Matt 18:3“Truly I tell you,” He said, “unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
982
476
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If Christ was made to be like in every way then we are also 100% divine and 100% human when our sins are cleansed:

2 Pet 1:4 Through these He has given us His precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, now that you have escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

It is godliness that is a mystery not God. If someone says Posthumanliness is a mystery they don't mean Posthuman is a mystery but what he does or the act of being Posthuman. Godliness is a mystery for obvious reasons just like the husband and wife are one flesh or the church (bride) and Christ (groom) being a mystery as Paul puts it (Eph 5).
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Godliness is a mystery- means what God does is a mystery:

Ecc 3:10I have seen the burden God has laid on the human race. 11He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet a no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

But God Himself is not a mystery:

Acts 17:
24“The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ b As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ c

29“Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill.

Q. How is God a mystery if He is working hard for us to know Him?
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
982
476
63
Godliness is a mystery- means what God does is a mystery:

Ecc 3:10I have seen the burden God has laid on the human race. 11He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet a no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

But God Himself is not a mystery:

Acts 17:
24“The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ b As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ c

29“Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill.

Q. How is God a mystery if He is working hard for us to know Him?
We have to know the mind of Christ ..
 

Alertandawake

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2017
436
93
28
None who worship Allah will be with Him if they remain in that state upon death.
Just to point out, if one does their research, Allah is the Arabic word for God. If you do your research, even Arabic Christians will use the word Allah. Now Arabic is a semetic language. WHat is interesting is that if you look at the Aramaic word for God, it is Elahh.
 
Dec 22, 2019
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The poll is simple.

Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine from Scripture?

I am definitely a Trinitarian, and I can definitely defend the doctrine.

If you can defend the doctrine, please provide your Scriptural and reasoning. Additionally, please tell me about incidences where you successfully defended the Trinity.

If you can't defend the doctrine, I suggest that you learn how to defend it. It is the most commonly rejected doctrine of Christianity.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
982
476
63
Just to point out, if one does their research, Allah is the Arabic word for God. If you do your research, even Arabic Christians will use the word Allah. Now Arabic is a semetic language. WHat is interesting is that if you look at the Aramaic word for God, it is Elahh.
What is Allah's name ?
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,045
1,642
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The "trinity" is not biblical.
Why?

What part do you deny?

1. There is one God (YHVH).
2. The Father is YHVH.
3. The Son is YHVH.
4. The Holy Spirit is YHVH.
5. These three are distinct, coessential, co-eternal persons.

If you can pinpoint your disagreement it would be helpful.
 

Alertandawake

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2017
436
93
28
Bojack, if you do your research concerning the semetic languages, but do note my understanding is extremely limited and I can only go by the research material available to me, but from the research I have done, Allah is the Arabic word for God. In Aramaic it is Elahh, and in Hebrew I have come across El Eloah and Elohim which in our English bibles we have the word God (in the case of Elohim you could have God/gods depending on the context). In our English language we generally refer to God as The Supreme Being (depending on context). Other languages have their own words to refer to The Supreme Being.


UnitedWithChrist, if you are saying There is One God, but at the same time you are saying The Father = God, The Son = God, The Holy Spirit = God, then by your reasoning who died on the cross? In more than one place in the bible it is mentioned God is Immortal, and the last time I checked, the meaning of immortal means not subject to death. So can someone explain to me how a Immortal Being, not subject to death, be killed?
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
982
476
63
Bojack, if you do your research concerning the semetic languages, but do note my understanding is extremely limited and I can only go by the research material available to me, but from the research I have done, Allah is the Arabic word for God. In Aramaic it is Elahh, and in Hebrew I have come across El Eloah and Elohim which in our English bibles we have the word God (in the case of Elohim you could have God/gods depending on the context). In our English language we generally refer to God as The Supreme Being (depending on context). Other languages have their own words to refer to The Supreme Being.


UnitedWithChrist, if you are saying There is One God, but at the same time you are saying The Father = God, The Son = God, The Holy Spirit = God, then by your reasoning who died on the cross? In more than one place in the bible it is mentioned God is Immortal, and the last time I checked, the meaning of immortal means not subject to death. So can someone explain to me how a Immortal Being, not subject to death, be killed?
Jesus said forgive them Father they know not what they do .. this was about the 6th hr and the whole earth become dark until about the 9th.. Jesus body died and Jesus breathed His last and our sins caused His sinless Spirit to be separated from His Father . Jesus death was both physical and spiritual .. His body lay in the tomb 3 days His Spirit never ceased to exist nor was He guilty of sin except by His association with us , what He was manifested in the flesh for, His mission .. The Father could not do that apparently since Adam got kicked out, but Adam could be maintained in hope until God in flesh Jesus could and did restore .. Jesus was not guilty but willingly tasted death and hell for us, for our sake , our sin not His . I'm sorry you can't fathom it , it is more than I could take when I was on a 7 day fast and I only caught a glimpse of it during a revelation ''how big God is'' .. God is big, way, way off our charts big .. We are given an even playing field concerning free will choice , things hidden in plain sight.. You make your own choice and live with it .. There was none born of women greater than John the Baptist yet Jesus as the Lamb of God was more than enough to atone for his and all sin .. Jesus was not born of woman except to manifest in the flesh as son of David and every much as a 100% man but sinless .. You stop seeking, God stops revealing .. Jesus is God come in the flesh , keep your drivel to yourself devil boy and I don't say that like I think of myself as anything, I'm a skunk who deserves beatings and received a few ..
I'm so glad that Jesus had a good childhood in a normal loving family with a rich Jewish heritage and I appreciate Mary Magdalene who worshipped Jesus in thanksgiving and love for washing Jesus feet with her tears and drying them with her hair for Jesus sake and hers ..
 

Alertandawake

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2017
436
93
28
You can throw all the ambiguous verses you like, but at the end of the day, Jesus admitted he has a God. This is a clear direct statement. But you trinitarians continuously refuse to accept the direct explicit statements Jesus made.

It is you trinitarians who go against what Jesus said. Going by the evidence, Jesus himself admits he has a God.

And by the way, if you think you can use the verse in John 20.28 where Thomas says "My Lord and my God" to prove Jesus is God, let us use the same line of reasoning in the following situation, what if a parent who has a newborn child, child is sitting down and falls of the chair, and the parent rushes to the child and happens to say "My God My God" does that mean the parent was addressing her child as God? Of course not.

Jesus admitted he has a God. Why can you not accept this? In John 20.17, What part of " I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God" is so difficult to comprehend?

How can Jesus be God when Jesus himself admitted he has a God? This is the part that you guys are not accepting. Jesus admitted he has a God.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
982
476
63
You can throw all the ambiguous verses you like, but at the end of the day, Jesus admitted he has a God. This is a clear direct statement. But you trinitarians continuously refuse to accept the direct explicit statements Jesus made.

It is you trinitarians who go against what Jesus said. Going by the evidence, Jesus himself admits he has a God.

And by the way, if you think you can use the verse in John 20.28 where Thomas says "My Lord and my God" to prove Jesus is God, let us use the same line of reasoning in the following situation, what if a parent who has a newborn child, child is sitting down and falls of the chair, and the parent rushes to the child and happens to say "My God My God" does that mean the parent was addressing her child as God? Of course not.

Jesus admitted he has a God. Why can you not accept this? In John 20.17, What part of " I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God" is so difficult to comprehend?

How can Jesus be God when Jesus himself admitted he has a God? This is the part that you guys are not accepting. Jesus admitted he has a God.
So you're saying Thomas was taking the Lord's name in vain instead of recognizing Jesus..
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
982
476
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16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,045
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Bojack, if you do your research concerning the semetic languages, but do note my understanding is extremely limited and I can only go by the research material available to me, but from the research I have done, Allah is the Arabic word for God. In Aramaic it is Elahh, and in Hebrew I have come across El Eloah and Elohim which in our English bibles we have the word God (in the case of Elohim you could have God/gods depending on the context). In our English language we generally refer to God as The Supreme Being (depending on context). Other languages have their own words to refer to The Supreme Being.


UnitedWithChrist, if you are saying There is One God, but at the same time you are saying The Father = God, The Son = God, The Holy Spirit = God, then by your reasoning who died on the cross? In more than one place in the bible it is mentioned God is Immortal, and the last time I checked, the meaning of immortal means not subject to death. So can someone explain to me how a Immortal Being, not subject to death, be killed?
Christ died on the cross. He has a dual nature, being both truly God and truly man. When Christ died, who is YHVH, YHVH didn't die, as God is unchangeable and immortal, but Jesus the man died.

There are mysteries involving the Incarnation, but Scripture is clear in teaching that Jesus is God and he is glorified man.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
4,145
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You know, going by the Shield of the Trinity, this is what the trinity is, and when you break it down, it does nothing but contradict itself. THis is how the shield of the trinity can be explained.

Now I will break it down to really show how crazy this trinity concept is and how it does nothing but contract itself.

Because this is what trinitarians believe. Since the trinity accepts Father = God , Son = God and The Holy Spirit = God, then it is a matter of applying that line of reasoning to the shield of trinity.

"The Father (God) is God"
"The Son (God) is God"
"The Holy Spirit (God) is God"
"God is the Father (God)"
"God is the Son (God)"
"God is the Holy Spirit (God)"
"The Father (God) is not the Son (God)"
"The Father (God) is not the Holy Spirit (God)"
"The Son (God) is not the Father (God)"
"The Son (God) is not the Holy Spirit (God)"
"The Holy Spirit (God) is not the Father (God)"
"The Holy Spirit (God) is not the Son (God)"

At the end of the day, this is what trinity teaches. It is a matter of breaking it down to see how irrational this concept actually is.

So how can the trinity concept at its core say God is God but at the same time say God is not God? This is actually what is being taught, but the trinity supports and defenders cannot see it.
I don't have to know EXACTLY how green grass becomes white milk to enjoy it.

The bible says the things you cannot wrap your mind around.

So you reframe it to your understanding.

Then act like we are the inferior ones
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
982
476
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Foundation of the church ha?

Earlier in history, anyone against the trinity was a heretic and heretics were rounded up and persecuted for what they did not believe. Is this the foundation you are proud to be associated with?
If you're talking about the RCC , they have it all wrong imo .. Peter was never in Rome and I think Simon the sorcerer was ..
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,045
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If you're talking about the RCC , they have it all wrong imo .. Peter was never in Rome and I think Simon the sorcerer was ..
Tradition says that both Peter and Paul died in Rome. Paul by beheading, and Peter by upside down crucifixion.

By the way, since this guy mentions this topic, there is a myth by conspiracy theorists that is being inferred here.

These guys think that Simon Magus of Acts 8 is the real first pope. They believe that Simon Magus somehow got confused with Simon Peter.

The folks who claim this are many, including the founder of the Sabbatarian cult I belonged to. It was also taught by Michael Servetus, an anti-Trinitarian heretic.

In their mind, Simon Magus basically started the Roman Catholic Church, which continued in one continuous heretical line from the apostolic age to the current age. It is totally bogus. The true church had five bishops, in five major areas. The Roman bishop eventually claimed ecclesiastical superiority over time.

The RC Church is wrong in its' claims, because they ignore this evolution of the Roman Catholic Church. So is the claim of conspiracy theorists who claim Simon Magus started the Roman Catholic Church. This claim is based on legends by heretics with vivid imaginations.

I wouldn't be surprised if Alexander Hislop's book Two Babylons talks about Simon Magus, as it is the same type of hogwash he specialized in. And, tons of cults claim the same things :)