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any rough numbers on the odds?
but, i would have to be not just intelligent life it would have to be the entire spectrum of life and eco systems we have on earth: plus - MAN.....man is quite a problem for the atheist, isn't he?
also, who's word are you taking for what is now theoretical data about "the size of the universe"?
probably more intelligent life forms? how do they figure that since supposedly all this exploration and looking we got NADA. zip.
but, i would have to be not just intelligent life it would have to be the entire spectrum of life and eco systems we have on earth: plus - MAN.....man is quite a problem for the atheist, isn't he?
also, who's word are you taking for what is now theoretical data about "the size of the universe"?
probably more intelligent life forms? how do they figure that since supposedly all this exploration and looking we got NADA. zip.
T
Perhaps. But you did not answer my question or address my point.
You have decided, contrary to any evidence, that there is absolutely no God. There is no proof for this, no evidence, just your own conviction.
How is that somehow "better" than me believing, without proof or evidence, that there IS a God?
In fact, since I am willing to admit that my belief takes faith, and you have not, I would say only one of us is being honest.
You have decided, contrary to any evidence, that there is absolutely no God. There is no proof for this, no evidence, just your own conviction.
How is that somehow "better" than me believing, without proof or evidence, that there IS a God?
In fact, since I am willing to admit that my belief takes faith, and you have not, I would say only one of us is being honest.
I agree there is no way to prove or falsify god's existence but what you're implying is that I should be a pure skeptic. If I became purely skeptical then I couldn't have any beliefs about anything. How do I know if what I'm observing with my senses is true? I don't know with a 100% cetainty but it's probably correct that the objects around me are there so I believe it. It's the same with God. There's no evidence of his existence so it's most likely true that he does not exist and thus that's what I believe.
Satan's greatest achievement in life was making people believe there is no God. He is the ultimate deceiver.
Anton Lavey, a famous Satanist, who founded the 'church of Satan' and put together the satanic bible, was heard on his deathbed crying out to God for repentance. The woman with him became a Christian after hearing what he was saying. He was dieing and obviously was shown hell and it wasn't a place he wanted to go. He obviously realized he had been deceived by Satan.
Here is a video from atheists and their experiences......
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ8TEGMj-jc[/video]
Anton Lavey, a famous Satanist, who founded the 'church of Satan' and put together the satanic bible, was heard on his deathbed crying out to God for repentance. The woman with him became a Christian after hearing what he was saying. He was dieing and obviously was shown hell and it wasn't a place he wanted to go. He obviously realized he had been deceived by Satan.
Here is a video from atheists and their experiences......
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ8TEGMj-jc[/video]
J
1 John 4:3 "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."
All who don't believe in Christ are all the same spirit and that is, the spirit of the anti-christ. I don't care if they're an atheist, anti-theist, satanist or of a false religion. So honestly past that point; I couldn't care less whether or not they're atheist or anti-theist, either way, they have the spirit of the anti-christ and either way, they're lost. It's not our job to argue with them; It's our job to preach the gospel to them.
We need to be careful about who we teach things to. The wisdom that God has given to us is meant for his body, the church. God has given us wisdom, let us use it wisely.
Matthew 7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."
All who don't believe in Christ are all the same spirit and that is, the spirit of the anti-christ. I don't care if they're an atheist, anti-theist, satanist or of a false religion. So honestly past that point; I couldn't care less whether or not they're atheist or anti-theist, either way, they have the spirit of the anti-christ and either way, they're lost. It's not our job to argue with them; It's our job to preach the gospel to them.
We need to be careful about who we teach things to. The wisdom that God has given to us is meant for his body, the church. God has given us wisdom, let us use it wisely.
Matthew 7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."
The truth is that no one can say there is no God,because they could not prove there is no God,and if He were near what if God were invisible to the human eye,because He is Spirit.
Another thing people will say is that they cannot believe there is a God that has no beginning,but then something has to have no beginning,whether God or matter.How can matter have no beginning with no God,and form in to the physical things with no God.
I believe that both God and matter have no beginning and have always existed,and God takes that matter and forms what He wants with it,for I do not believe if there was nothing there,that God could make it appear,so it seems like God and matter always existed.
Some people will say the Christians do not think for themselves because they follow a God and His rules,but that is what I am doing is using reason to come to the conclusion that evolution is not true,for it does not make sense to me for obvious reasons.
Since evolution does not make sense to me,I have to believe a God created all things,and reading through the Bible,it tells the whole history of mankind,telling each world power one after another,and at this time,the world being split in to ten sections,which will happen,with Canada,North America,and Mexico,being one of the super nations.In other words the prophesy it tells comes to pass,and what is says concerning this time is happening now,or you can see it coming.
I do not believe in evolution,because I cannot believe that things came about by chance,with things in such an orderly fashion,and gave mankind eyes,ears,nose,taste,sexual pleasure,mouth to speak,brain to think,and the other things of the body.
And not only that but arranged all the body parts in such a fashion for best looks and best functioning,to where you cannot put a body part in a better location than where it is,for best looks,and best functioning,as if evolution by chance also had a sense of fashion.
You cannot put the eyes in a more better location,the body parts all uniformly in the best spot they can be in,and evolution can do this by chance with no intelligence.
Not only that but it can create all the animals,birds,fish,all with the same concept,and cause such a wide variety of them,along with plants,and cause food to come about for the species,the earth held by gravity,the right conditions on earth for life,and all this with no intelligence but by chance,as if evolution by chance evolved humans and knew they also needed food to survive,and to have a pretty earth to look at,scenic wise.
I do not understand how things can be like they are by chance,because I see a designer behind it.There is intelligence behind everything we see.
And for people who would say as we evolved we adapted to the environment or different elements to cause us to be what we are today,I do not buy it.
How can evolution adapt the species to evolve to hear things,by giving them ears,if evolution cannot hear anything to know if there are sounds to give them ears to adapt to it,or to hear it.
Before the species came about,and when they started out evolving,how does evolution know to give them sight,hearing,taste,smell,and touch,if evolution cannot sense these things,because it cannot hear,or any other sense,to know to give the species these things.
Physical matter cannot hear,so how can it give ears to hear if it does not know there are sounds to be heard.How can it give eyes to see if it can't see things to know there are things to be seen,and give eyes,and so forth.
Before there was any life that had these senses,evolution cannot pick up on these senses,lacking anything to perceive these senses,to know to give ears,and eyes,to perceive these senses.
Before things started evolving,if it can't see,why would evolution give eyes to see,if it cannot perceive anything of sight,to know to give sight to see something.How can it adapt,or give something,that it does not even sense that it is there.We are talking physical matter,which cannot see,hear,taste,smell,or feel,but gave these things to people,when they did not know these things were there.
Physical matter knows nothing,not intelligence,can't sense things,or any other thing,squat,zero,but it caused man to evolve to have ears,eyes,smell,taste,touch,speech,sex that feels good,taste buds to taste food,legs to walk,hands to handle things,and caused the food to taste good,as if while man was evolving it gave taste buds,and caused the food to taste good,all by chance with no intelligence.
Evolution is a joke,and I cannot believe it,and we know physical matter has no intelligence,so how can it do all this we see today by chance,and how could it start life to begin with.
The things that came about are by an intelligent designer,for that is the only thing that makes sense.
So I do not believe there is a God without thinking about it,for I believe that someone had to create all things.
Another thing people will say is that they cannot believe there is a God that has no beginning,but then something has to have no beginning,whether God or matter.How can matter have no beginning with no God,and form in to the physical things with no God.
I believe that both God and matter have no beginning and have always existed,and God takes that matter and forms what He wants with it,for I do not believe if there was nothing there,that God could make it appear,so it seems like God and matter always existed.
Some people will say the Christians do not think for themselves because they follow a God and His rules,but that is what I am doing is using reason to come to the conclusion that evolution is not true,for it does not make sense to me for obvious reasons.
Since evolution does not make sense to me,I have to believe a God created all things,and reading through the Bible,it tells the whole history of mankind,telling each world power one after another,and at this time,the world being split in to ten sections,which will happen,with Canada,North America,and Mexico,being one of the super nations.In other words the prophesy it tells comes to pass,and what is says concerning this time is happening now,or you can see it coming.
I do not believe in evolution,because I cannot believe that things came about by chance,with things in such an orderly fashion,and gave mankind eyes,ears,nose,taste,sexual pleasure,mouth to speak,brain to think,and the other things of the body.
And not only that but arranged all the body parts in such a fashion for best looks and best functioning,to where you cannot put a body part in a better location than where it is,for best looks,and best functioning,as if evolution by chance also had a sense of fashion.
You cannot put the eyes in a more better location,the body parts all uniformly in the best spot they can be in,and evolution can do this by chance with no intelligence.
Not only that but it can create all the animals,birds,fish,all with the same concept,and cause such a wide variety of them,along with plants,and cause food to come about for the species,the earth held by gravity,the right conditions on earth for life,and all this with no intelligence but by chance,as if evolution by chance evolved humans and knew they also needed food to survive,and to have a pretty earth to look at,scenic wise.
I do not understand how things can be like they are by chance,because I see a designer behind it.There is intelligence behind everything we see.
And for people who would say as we evolved we adapted to the environment or different elements to cause us to be what we are today,I do not buy it.
How can evolution adapt the species to evolve to hear things,by giving them ears,if evolution cannot hear anything to know if there are sounds to give them ears to adapt to it,or to hear it.
Before the species came about,and when they started out evolving,how does evolution know to give them sight,hearing,taste,smell,and touch,if evolution cannot sense these things,because it cannot hear,or any other sense,to know to give the species these things.
Physical matter cannot hear,so how can it give ears to hear if it does not know there are sounds to be heard.How can it give eyes to see if it can't see things to know there are things to be seen,and give eyes,and so forth.
Before there was any life that had these senses,evolution cannot pick up on these senses,lacking anything to perceive these senses,to know to give ears,and eyes,to perceive these senses.
Before things started evolving,if it can't see,why would evolution give eyes to see,if it cannot perceive anything of sight,to know to give sight to see something.How can it adapt,or give something,that it does not even sense that it is there.We are talking physical matter,which cannot see,hear,taste,smell,or feel,but gave these things to people,when they did not know these things were there.
Physical matter knows nothing,not intelligence,can't sense things,or any other thing,squat,zero,but it caused man to evolve to have ears,eyes,smell,taste,touch,speech,sex that feels good,taste buds to taste food,legs to walk,hands to handle things,and caused the food to taste good,as if while man was evolving it gave taste buds,and caused the food to taste good,all by chance with no intelligence.
Evolution is a joke,and I cannot believe it,and we know physical matter has no intelligence,so how can it do all this we see today by chance,and how could it start life to begin with.
The things that came about are by an intelligent designer,for that is the only thing that makes sense.
So I do not believe there is a God without thinking about it,for I believe that someone had to create all things.
J
We shouldn't have to try and justify our faith. It is God that justifies and it is God that Judges. I have no reason to try and say why I believe what I believe. The only thing that I have to give to anyone who doesn't believe is the gospel because That is the Power of God, not earthly wisdom.
1 Corinthians 1:17-20 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?"
1 Corinthians 1:17-20 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?"
T
First of all, just because evolution doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to everyone. There are plenty of people who do understand evolution.
Secondly, understanding something is not necessary to believing it. For example, the Bible says that no mortal can possible understand God. And yet we believe in God.
Finally, the theory of evolution does not preclude a faith in God. Many scientists accept evolution and also believe that God created all things.
So I'm not sure where you're going with your above statement that is wrong on 3 counts.
Evolution does not teach that things came about by chance. In fact, it teaches the opposite: evolution teaches that every aspect of life has a purpose. Eyes, ears, nose, taste, sexual pleasure, mouth to speak, brain to think, all these things came about for a reason, according to the theory of evolution.
I am not telling you to believe in evolution. However, I do recommend that you educate yourself about the theory, by someone who actually accepts it, rather than from someone who rejects it, so you learn what it actually teaches, instead of these false ideas that get spread by anti-evolutionists out of fear or ignorance.
I'll refrain from the snide remark here.
Secondly, understanding something is not necessary to believing it. For example, the Bible says that no mortal can possible understand God. And yet we believe in God.
Finally, the theory of evolution does not preclude a faith in God. Many scientists accept evolution and also believe that God created all things.
So I'm not sure where you're going with your above statement that is wrong on 3 counts.
Evolution does not teach that things came about by chance. In fact, it teaches the opposite: evolution teaches that every aspect of life has a purpose. Eyes, ears, nose, taste, sexual pleasure, mouth to speak, brain to think, all these things came about for a reason, according to the theory of evolution.
I am not telling you to believe in evolution. However, I do recommend that you educate yourself about the theory, by someone who actually accepts it, rather than from someone who rejects it, so you learn what it actually teaches, instead of these false ideas that get spread by anti-evolutionists out of fear or ignorance.
I'll refrain from the snide remark here.
J
Evolution is vain philosophy and deceit, created by man. No where in scripture does it even get close to saying anything about evolution.
1 Corinthians 15:38-40 "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. "
God created us from the dust of the earth separate from the animals.
Genesis 1:24-27 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. "
So God created everything from the earth after it's own kind and men separate from the animals; as well as different in the respect that man was created in God's own image.
This is basic scripture and it's completely opposed to the theory of evolution which says that we evolved from animals. God said that he created them after their own kind and he created man afterward.
We are uniquely created by God. We weren't created through mutations but God intentionally formed man from the dust of the earth, in his own image and breathed into him the breath of life.
1 Corinthians 15:38-40 "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. "
God created us from the dust of the earth separate from the animals.
Genesis 1:24-27 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. "
So God created everything from the earth after it's own kind and men separate from the animals; as well as different in the respect that man was created in God's own image.
This is basic scripture and it's completely opposed to the theory of evolution which says that we evolved from animals. God said that he created them after their own kind and he created man afterward.
We are uniquely created by God. We weren't created through mutations but God intentionally formed man from the dust of the earth, in his own image and breathed into him the breath of life.
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G
Have you ever stood outside for 5 minutes and have taken a look around at the trees, the air, the birds, your own being? How everything synchronizes beautifully? It does not take a brain surgeon to notice that there is power in nature. It's a power that just by using common sense lets you know that there is a higher power at work. Open your eyes
S
You can build a world view based on pure objective observation. You start with the "I", and progress from there; see Ayn Rand's essays on Objectivism, or read the monologue at the end of "Atlas Shrugged," for an example of this kind of rational reasoning process.
Note that many who've studied Ayn Rand treat her like atheists do religion: "It's philosophical twaddle!" Yet she's still hard to argue with.
A pure skeptic would not be one who had no beliefs, but one who was willing to question his beliefs to fit his observations, and one who was willing to question one's observations.
Faith comes from running out of answers. I believe because I believe; I claimed atheism but was unable to actually do things which an atheist would be able to do (in my case, assign no meaning to the Name.) I could not rationalize why things had value to me when objectively (and skeptically) they should have had no value. Thus, I reexamined what I actually thought and felt, and came to belief.
Is that enough for anyone else? Probably not. But that's how I understand it.
Note that many who've studied Ayn Rand treat her like atheists do religion: "It's philosophical twaddle!" Yet she's still hard to argue with.
A pure skeptic would not be one who had no beliefs, but one who was willing to question his beliefs to fit his observations, and one who was willing to question one's observations.
Faith comes from running out of answers. I believe because I believe; I claimed atheism but was unable to actually do things which an atheist would be able to do (in my case, assign no meaning to the Name.) I could not rationalize why things had value to me when objectively (and skeptically) they should have had no value. Thus, I reexamined what I actually thought and felt, and came to belief.
Is that enough for anyone else? Probably not. But that's how I understand it.
M
Keep in mind, though, that we're discussing a God who has made a number of appearances and promises about his accessibility. The Christian God conveniently becomes an invisible ghost in these sorts of arguments, but this isn't the God the Christians actually worship.
It's best, really, not to make this sort of argument, unless you want to convert someone to the worship of an invisible Spirit with no effects whatsoever; i.e. at the end of the conversation, do you want a deist or Christian?
It's best, really, not to make this sort of argument, unless you want to convert someone to the worship of an invisible Spirit with no effects whatsoever; i.e. at the end of the conversation, do you want a deist or Christian?