Attack of the Judaizers

Rockbysea · Jan 28, 2014

When you say such things as fact it’s always good to post sources. The “Zentrum” (German Centre Party), a catholic party headed by Monsignor Ludwig Kaas, a Catholic priest, used its massive vote to assure Nazi dictatorship. It was the votes of the “Zentrum” that enabled Hitler to come to power on the 30th of January 1933.

Ten years earlier, Mousolini, another dictator was brought to power by the Christian Democrats, a Catholic party lead by Don Luigi Sturzo, an Italian Catholic priest and politician, who voted unamonously for the Musollini fascist government.

ADOLF HITLER was a Devoted Roman Catholic a Jesuit Temporal Co-adjutor

[video=youtube;6o_-_hjP-oI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o_-_hjP-oI[/video]

RedTent · Jan 28, 2014

danschance said:

When Paul used this term, Paul was talking about making rituals necessary to becoming Christian, when you use it you are talking about destroying God's words of instructions.

RedTent · Jan 28, 2014

Spokenpassage said:

I see the zeal in you sister, but I believe love is much better. There once was a rich young man who sought Jesus for knowledge of obtaining salvation. The Lord gave him a recap on 5 commandments, but the young man said he had kept them from his youth up. But Jesus saw his heart, and understood what he was missing, what he was lacking. A heart of love and devotion in his life. Jesus told him to go give his possessions to the poor and follow him. The rich young man walked away with sadness for he had many possessions.

You can obey all the commands of God, but if there is no love in them. What's the point? Sure you can honor your parents, but with a stiff heart against them, you are guilty of lack of love. Love is the key that opens those doors of commands, the door doesn't open by itself....

Love is not better, love is the foundation of the law and one does not oppose the other. If you have love you would also have the law, for there is nothing in the law that is not of love.

Spokenpassage · Jan 28, 2014

RedTent said:

I don't think you understood my post. Love is better. The law is full of things that can be separate from love. What's the point of keeping the law if you have no desire in them? What's the point of the commandments of God when you don't have love in them? It becomes a religion.

Physical obedience can become religious and separate from love. Jesus wants us to obey in love, not an outward show.

danschance · Jan 28, 2014

RedTent said:

Wow, that is some epic scripture twisting... You are way off. Paul was asking in Gal 2:14 "...how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?". This has nothing to do with making rituals. Paul is contending to not make the gentiles into Jews by the mutilation of the foreskin. Paul is blatantly speaking out against Jewish circumcision of the Gentile converts and Paul claims those who wanted to push circumcision are hypocrites lacking truth.

danschance · Jan 28, 2014

lookuptoseeJesus said:

Are you sure? If that us true the Apostle Paul then is a Nazi bigot as he used the term in Galatians 2:14. Maybe you ought to center yourself and restate bigoted attack on Paul and his letter to the Galatians.

How utterly ridiculous.

RedTent · Jan 28, 2014

danschance said:

So you say that when God told the Hebrews to do physical circumcision to represent the spiritual required, God was telling the Hebrews to mutilate the foreskin? What a cruel terrible God you have constructed for yourself.

And when Paul was, in your words speaking out against teaching mutilating instead of directly teaching the spiritual circumcision, that had nothing to do with rules to live as Jews? Being you are showing yourself so dense, I am trying to put scripture into 2014 words you can understand, and still you don't.

danschance · Jan 28, 2014

lookuptoseeJesus said:

Nazi germany and hitler started as a protestant church movement called KIRCHEN WAFE" church wars.
The moved in all the churches to sing patriotic songs and uphold the true german religion and throw out judaism (old testament, apostle paul writings, and the book of revelations)
other fundamentla churches were voted down and Germany voted officially to have two =religons, German protestant and catholic. All others were illegal and unrecognized and Jews who teach the old testament were not allowed to be members.
then, after this success they voted hitler into the chancelor position of the United nations because the "Jews" burned nown the United NAtions building (false flag)
so they started a war to cover up the killing of the Jews and moved from country to country, each country they exported all the Jews to poland by train, each country they invaded they moved the Jews to poland into slums. and finally when all the Jews were in poland they started eliminating them
the JEWISH RELIGION WAS SOLVED said hitler
they found a solution

never would churches have the old testament or revelation preached again....

this is now happening in
US and they will do the same thing, they cant stand the old testament or revelation or PAuls writings, and they will start anouther european war and complete the job

see, they cant justify sunday so they want to eliminate the dissent.

Waffe means weapon not war, krieg means war in German. Hitler did not start in any Church either. Perhaps we should focus on the bible as this is in the bible section. You seem to post your own personal revisions on WWII history with no sources cited.

You claim Churches in America are starting to not teaching from the OT? That is absurd.

RedTent · Jan 28, 2014

Spokenpassage said:

Perhaps there is some of not understanding each other, but I think you could understand law better. If you understand each and every piece of law from God's point of view, there is no law separate from love. Some of it is from God loving the humans He created, and telling them to live like this for it will result in peace, safety and goodness for you. Sometimes God ordered that people who solidly refused to live within how God constructed the world to be were simply taken out of it before they ruined the world for others, but it was for love God did that.

A study of scripture from the beginning shows how just obeying without the spirit of God doesn't work. Learning that is part of learning about God and His desires for us. Christ made it very clear, so much so that people are saying that there was Christ's law and God's law and they were separate, although Christ never said that.

The OT was originally given to us in the Hebrew language. That language uses doing to express what in English we express in emotions. Originally the word love was bringing gifts, or the actions love brought about. The word faith was expressed by someone hammering a nail in a wall, or the actions of depending on something solid so you hang everything on it. So the OT is more about actions of love, the NT is more about the spirit of the law, but they are both the same thing.

RedTent · Jan 28, 2014

danschance said:

You say all God gave Moses as instructions for our living (translated as law in English) is obsolete, and now you claim the churches are teaching from the OT. Moses is in the OT.

Praus · Jan 28, 2014

RedTent said:

RedTent, I was hoping for further instruction from you about the OT.

I think you must have missed my question. Thank you!

Praus said:

Elin · Jan 28, 2014

Hizikyah said:

Paul does not state Leviticus as the law which is fulfilled by love, he quotes the Ten Commandments only.

Inserting Leviticus is your doing, not the doing of the NT word of God.

You Judaize the text by inserting from Leviticus, for it adds nothing to Paul's statements.

Not according to what is spoken by his Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers
in Heb 9:25-26, where there are no priesthood ordinances of sacrifice, purification, etc.,
only Christ's intercession for us (Heb 9:24, 7:24).

More Judaizing of the text.

Hizikyah · Jan 28, 2014

Elin said:

You are delusional.

Messiah quoted Leviticus 19:18, He said it is the 2nd greatest Commandment.

Yet I am a supposed "Judaizer" for quoting the verse right before that.

You follow Pharisee law by replacing Yahweh with Lord, I dont follow any Pharisee law, and im the "Judaizer" sure.

Hizikyah said:

Hilarious.

So I am promoting the levitical priesthood because I said:

"Try breaking Leviticus 19:17 and still be loving your neighbor according to Messiah."

The next verse was quoted by Yahshua as the 2nd greatest commandment:

Mattithyah 22:39-40, "And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Leviticus 19:18, "Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am Yahweh."

Do you not uunderstand the there is still a priesthood? The ordinances of the priesthood have not been abolished but have been transferred to Yahshua, a eternal priesthood after the order of the malak zadiq.

Sounds like you disagree with the Messiah not just me.

And out of that post that was your rebuttal, telling.

I stand on all Scripture, no mistranslations or misunderstands but all Scripture.

Yess Matt 22:40 is awesome!

And we have gone through this many times, it dosent blot out all commandment, Shaul makes this clear in Romans 13.

Yahshua says these are the greatest Commandments, NOT THE ONLY! If that werent enough He clearly states all the Law hang on these 2.

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Shaul clearly understands what the Messiah means and explains it here:

Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."

All as in even the ones he didn't list...

Try breaking Leviticus 19:17 and still be loving your neighbor according to Messiah.

And try breaking the 4th Commandment and still be loving Yahweh.

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Mattithyah 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."

Mattithyah 19:16-17, "And behold, one came to Him, and said; Teacher, what righteous thing may I do, so that I may have eternal life? But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh."

1785. entolé
Original Word: ἐντολή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: entolé
Phonetic Spelling: (en-tol-ay')
Short Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Lets not lie to ourselves, Messiah clearly said a vital component to eternal life is following Yahweh's Laws. (or Commandments if you are stuck on mainstream traditional translation)

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

I find it telling that your claim I reject "NT" while these verses i quote are just more things Messiah said that people ignore. And what is the meaning of the term Christian? "Christ Like" Well Messiah kept and taught the Laws of His Father.

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

If we are to be followers of Messiah WE HAVE TO ACTUALLY DO WHAT HE SAYS. Not just read His words and say ehh, thats just another thing He said that im going to ignore.

john832 · Jan 28, 2014

RedTent said:

You don't see this one posted much do you?

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Elin · Jan 28, 2014

lookuptoseeJesus said:

Spoken like a true Judaizer (or Messianic?). . .guilt by association.

It is Paul's word (Gal 2:14), and without compunction you call Paul a bigot.

So the NT word of God is of no effect to you?

john832 · Jan 28, 2014

Hizikyah said:

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Elin · Jan 28, 2014

Hizikyah said:

Red herring.

That alters nothing regarding Mt 22:37-39 fulfilling the law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10; Gal 5:6).

Yes, you are a Judaizer for continually trying to subvert the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40) with the Ten
Commandments,

rather than the Ten Commandments being contained in the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; 1Co 9:21;
Gal 6:2).

The Pharisees replaced Yahweh with Lord?

Where is that in Scripture?

You're Judaizing again.

Hizikyah · Jan 28, 2014

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Shaul clearly understands what the Messiah means and explains it here:

Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."

Hizikyah · Jan 28, 2014

Elin said:

And before you start saying Im wrong, you better argue with: The Anchor Bible Dictionary, The New Unger's Bible Dictionary, Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible, Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary.

Yeremyah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal."

BAAL (DEITY) [Hebrew - baal] . Canaanite storm and fertility god. The name, which means “lord, ” is an epithet of the god Hadad (lit. “thunderer” ). Well-known from the OT, he is now extremely well-attested in the Ugaritic texts, in addition to being mentioned in other ancient texts.
Freedman, David Noel: The Anchor Bible Dictionary. New York : Doubleday, 1996, c1992, S. 1:546

BA´AL (ba'al; Heb. ba?al, “lord, possessor”).
1. A common name for god among the Phoenicians; also the name of their chief male god. See Gods, False.
Unger, Merrill Frederick ; Harrison, R. K. ; Vos, Howard Frederic ; Barber, Cyril J. ; Unger, Merrill Frederick: The New Unger's Bible Dictionary. Rev. and updated ed. Chicago : Moody Press, 1988

Baal (Heb. ba?al) DEITY
The Canaanite storm- and fertility-god. As an epithet for various West Semitic deities, especially Hadad, the name means “lord,” designating a legal state of ownership or social superiority. With the obvious exception of Yahweh, Baal is the most significant deity in the OT.
Freedman, David Noel ; Myers, Allen C. ; Beck, Astrid B.: Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible. Grand Rapids, Mich. : W.B. Eerdmans, 2000

BAAL [BAY uhl] (lord, master) — the name of one or more false gods, a place, and two people in the Old Testament:
1. A fertility and nature god of the Canaanites and Phoenicians. Also see Gods, Pagan.
Youngblood, Ronald F. ; Bruce, F. F. ; Harrison, R. K. ; Thomas Nelson Publishers: Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary. Nashville : T. Nelson, 1995

Elin · Jan 28, 2014

Hizikyah said:

Judaizing the text again. . ."briefly" is not in the Greek.

And agreed. . .Paul clearly understands that the Ten Commandments are contained in (Ro 13:8, 9, 10)
the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; 1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2),

and does not subvert the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40) with the Ten Commandments.

Attack of the Judaizers

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