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Psa 89:30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
Psa 89:31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
Psa 89:32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
Psa 89:33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
Psa 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
the used car salesmen are goig to get the rod for taking advantage of the elderly and children...
Psa 89:31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
Psa 89:32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
Psa 89:33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
Psa 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
the used car salesmen are goig to get the rod for taking advantage of the elderly and children...
We need to teaach the rtuh speak the truth
encourage the truth
the law is not a bad thing, everyone would teach it if it wasnt for that pesky sunday thing...
they have GOT to get rid of that law because everyone would leave their money making church and they would get fired if the told the truth
same with the Jews and Lawyers
the lawyers lied on purpose to get rid of Jesus
that is what lawyers do, lie lie lie
they make the other person look as bad as possible.
not many lawyers going to heaven...
encourage the truth
the law is not a bad thing, everyone would teach it if it wasnt for that pesky sunday thing...
they have GOT to get rid of that law because everyone would leave their money making church and they would get fired if the told the truth
same with the Jews and Lawyers
the lawyers lied on purpose to get rid of Jesus
that is what lawyers do, lie lie lie
they make the other person look as bad as possible.
not many lawyers going to heaven...
How is it so hard to understand
"and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself"
love your neighbor as yourself sums up the other Laws, dosent destroy them, it contains all other Laws within.
Is the love for iniquity that great?
As soon as one rejects the Laws this Law sums up they can choose their own version of "love" that wont work very well to enter the kingdom.
and rejecting Yahweh's Law = rejection out of the kingdom:
Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."
iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
"and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself"
love your neighbor as yourself sums up the other Laws, dosent destroy them, it contains all other Laws within.
Is the love for iniquity that great?
As soon as one rejects the Laws this Law sums up they can choose their own version of "love" that wont work very well to enter the kingdom.
and rejecting Yahweh's Law = rejection out of the kingdom:
Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."
iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
H
To Lt, you have it right: what you stated is a perfect summary. It just needs a lot of "filling out" like flesh on a skeliton.To Keren, You are in a lion's den of confusion; But you can take it, as you evaluate every thing said in light of the New Testament. To Hizikyah, what is your motive? You obviously hate the new T. and will not learn the truth we are showing you. Why are you on a Christian chat room? You are obvious the Judaizer we are talking about; The Bible condemns your twisted way of viewing the Bible. To John832 , some times you just fight for no good reason, why make such confusion for all? One thing we all can do is; just state our position; without the emotional codemnation of others' position. Love to all.
Neither is the Law. Take a look around at nations that do not have proper sanitation procedures, you see dysentary and a host of other vile diseases. Were this not in effect, there would be no penalty...
Rom 4:15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
People seem to think horrible trials and afflictions come on them for no reason. There is always a reason, God is not capricious. His Laws always work (thankfully). Imagine a universe in which the laws of physics were hit or miss. Well, we couldn't imagine it because we would have long since ceased to exist.
Rom 4:15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
People seem to think horrible trials and afflictions come on them for no reason. There is always a reason, God is not capricious. His Laws always work (thankfully). Imagine a universe in which the laws of physics were hit or miss. Well, we couldn't imagine it because we would have long since ceased to exist.
D
You are right. I have tried many times to say this is not so but that is the sick twisted perverted sinful mind of a judaizer. The call us anti-nomials which means anti law or lawless simply because we do not observe sabbath or eat pork. Isn't that bizarre? Yet that is how they think and in spite of the many times I have said to the contrary that we follow the law of Christ they continue with this bizarre groundless rant that we are lawless. Calling Christians lawless is not just absurd, it is sin. You can try to set them straight, but it simply won't work. Their twisted minds are stuck on the unfounded accusation that we are lawless. Even so, I appreciate you confronting this error.
I've already responded to all of that. I can't be like you and keep repeating myself. I’m not trying to convince you and those like you that the sheep on Christ’s right did not observe the Sabbath or that the decree that went out of Jerusalem settled this debate almost 2,000 years ago, or that the 7th day Sabbath observance was part of a national contract for a physical sovereign nation ruled by God with real protected borders and not for today’s scattered individuals around the world living within the nations ruled by Satan. You will never agree with this no matter how often I repeat myself. You’ll just start a whole new thread using the exact same arguments supported by the exact same scriptures.
But I believe those unlike yourself who are sincerely undecided about whether or not they should keep the Sabbath are not going to side with your arguments. All I can do is try to use your comments as an opportunity to contribute a little different perspective to this discussion without sounding repetitive.
So what I’ll do is use this as an opportunity to contribute a slightly different take on what I see going on here:
The gospel of the Kingdom was to be brought to unbelievers, which are made up of those who never heard of Christ (today this is very rare) or those who do not believe. And of course that’s what the apostles did. They went to those who did not believe and those who never heard of Christ and would debate with Jews and Gentiles to try and convince them that Jesus was the Messiah and that they needed to believe and repent. Many in those days who believed the message and repented would receive the Holy Spirit with great signs and wonders. And those like Cornelius, an Italian captain on-call and under the Roman high command, and his family, received the Holy Spirit not because they observed the Sabbath or because Peter told them to observe the Sabbath but because they believed.
But today you “Judaizers” (I’m only using this term to go with the title of this thread) bring a different gospel than the one that was brought by the apostles. Your gospel is not the gospel of the kingdom of God but a gospel of Sabbath keeping. And your gospel is not brought to unbelievers or people who never heard of Christ but it’s brought to believers. And it’s brought for the purpose of condemning believers, like Cornelius and his family who have received the Holy Spirit, for not resting one day a week. So your gospel is really about bullying believers with threats of condemnation. This is what I call spiritual terrorism.
But I believe those unlike yourself who are sincerely undecided about whether or not they should keep the Sabbath are not going to side with your arguments. All I can do is try to use your comments as an opportunity to contribute a little different perspective to this discussion without sounding repetitive.
So what I’ll do is use this as an opportunity to contribute a slightly different take on what I see going on here:
The gospel of the Kingdom was to be brought to unbelievers, which are made up of those who never heard of Christ (today this is very rare) or those who do not believe. And of course that’s what the apostles did. They went to those who did not believe and those who never heard of Christ and would debate with Jews and Gentiles to try and convince them that Jesus was the Messiah and that they needed to believe and repent. Many in those days who believed the message and repented would receive the Holy Spirit with great signs and wonders. And those like Cornelius, an Italian captain on-call and under the Roman high command, and his family, received the Holy Spirit not because they observed the Sabbath or because Peter told them to observe the Sabbath but because they believed.
But today you “Judaizers” (I’m only using this term to go with the title of this thread) bring a different gospel than the one that was brought by the apostles. Your gospel is not the gospel of the kingdom of God but a gospel of Sabbath keeping. And your gospel is not brought to unbelievers or people who never heard of Christ but it’s brought to believers. And it’s brought for the purpose of condemning believers, like Cornelius and his family who have received the Holy Spirit, for not resting one day a week. So your gospel is really about bullying believers with threats of condemnation. This is what I call spiritual terrorism.
L
The question at hand is this: does the Mosaic Covenant have anything to do with eternal salvation, or does it have to do with the earthly possession of the Promised Land?
Also, the sacrificial system is absolutely abrogated. It is denying Christ by offering a blood sacrifice in addition to what He already has done. It shows faithlessness to even consider doing so, as seen in the book of Galatians.
The Levitical priesthood, and all of it's regulations are absolutely abrogated. By submitting to anyone other than Christ for your intercession to the Father, you are denying the work of Christ. You are also displaying your faithlessness in the work of Christ. This is shown throughout the book of Hebrews.
If these are removed, what else is removed?
If you deny these are removed, you deny Christ, and I will not try to convert a faithless person by arguing about this topic.
Also, the sacrificial system is absolutely abrogated. It is denying Christ by offering a blood sacrifice in addition to what He already has done. It shows faithlessness to even consider doing so, as seen in the book of Galatians.
The Levitical priesthood, and all of it's regulations are absolutely abrogated. By submitting to anyone other than Christ for your intercession to the Father, you are denying the work of Christ. You are also displaying your faithlessness in the work of Christ. This is shown throughout the book of Hebrews.
If these are removed, what else is removed?
If you deny these are removed, you deny Christ, and I will not try to convert a faithless person by arguing about this topic.
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Well if you think this you clearly dont believe what the Messiah said, I quote and stand on the words of Messiah.
You said "and will not learn the truth we are showing you"
lol
Yahweh has taught me well, I diligently search out truth with the guidance He gives me, you probably celebrate babylonian sun worship day on Dec 25 and Ishtar sunday with eggs and bunnies, both of which are babylonian religious festivals and have nothing to do with the Messiah, but I wont follow your "truth"
It is so sad when the people are lead by mystery babylon, they are taught directly against the teaching of Messiah.
My motive is to follow Messiah in truth and urge others to also, I dont settle for saying the word Messiah, I settle for doing what He actually says.
Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"
Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."
Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your hneighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
Yahchanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."
Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
Yahchanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."
Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"
Mattithyah 5:20-30, ""For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed ladultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."
You said "and will not learn the truth we are showing you"
lol
Yahweh has taught me well, I diligently search out truth with the guidance He gives me, you probably celebrate babylonian sun worship day on Dec 25 and Ishtar sunday with eggs and bunnies, both of which are babylonian religious festivals and have nothing to do with the Messiah, but I wont follow your "truth"
It is so sad when the people are lead by mystery babylon, they are taught directly against the teaching of Messiah.
My motive is to follow Messiah in truth and urge others to also, I dont settle for saying the word Messiah, I settle for doing what He actually says.
Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"
Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."
Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your hneighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
Yahchanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."
Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
Yahchanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."
Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"
Mattithyah 5:20-30, ""For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed ladultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."
This is the second post of your replying to one of mine, yet not understanding what I have posted. I am sorry, perhaps were you to reread what I am sharing.
Is there anyone who does not understand Psalm 22? Anyone who has never read it?
Even if they have not yet read it, and even if they do not understand it, are you claiming they are not Christ's people?
You see Jesus in Psalm 22, correct? Why then do you not kindly teach it, showing Jesus in it instead of claiming you have spec
It is very bothersome the the supposed followers of Jesus are nearly wholesale calling those who say we should follow the Law of the Creator, evil and such...
The mystery of iniquity doeth work....
Isayah 5:20, "Woe to those who call evil righteous, and righteous evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."
iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
The mystery of iniquity doeth work....
Isayah 5:20, "Woe to those who call evil righteous, and righteous evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."
iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
So I ask a question and you turn it into me making a definitive statement, the guy who forged my post in his quote. NO SURPRISE.
I quote Messiah and I get called all kinds of wrong, so my question stands: (and if the answer is no, then how is it that one can speak the same doctrine as these verse and they are spoken evil of?)
Originally Posted by Hizikyah
Is the Messiah a "Judaizer?"
Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."
Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."
iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"
Mattithyah 5:20-30, ""For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed ladultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."
I quote Messiah and I get called all kinds of wrong, so my question stands: (and if the answer is no, then how is it that one can speak the same doctrine as these verse and they are spoken evil of?)
Is the Messiah a "Judaizer?"
Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."
Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."
iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"
Mattithyah 5:20-30, ""For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed ladultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."