Attack of the seventh day adventists

[KohenMatt]

Matthew 5:21-22 talks about murder. He explains that you heard of the command of murder that you are guilty, but...but...I say to you that if you are angry with your brother you are guilty. He is saying if you don't follow the spiritual of what this command taught, you cannot obey this command.

The Law is taught to tell us what is sinful against God, the knowledge of sin.
The Spirit is teaching us what we must do to obey those commands. See?

Spirit walks us through them, so simply going straight to obeying the commands of the law leads to a dead end.

Absolutely the Spirit teaches us what the command is truly saying, that we are sinful.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't do the physical because we understand the spiritual concept. I know that hating my brother is murder. I know I can't stop hating people. It's a fleshly struggle that will be with me my entire life. I know that by God's grace I can overcome it on a moment by moment basis.

But that doesn't mean I can kill my brother. It doesn't mean that I can go ahead and hate him. I still need to physically live by the physical command given by God/Jesus.

 

[Bryancampbell]

Brother John, I'm not saying we are to disobey God, matter of fact I believe that the law teaches us good for us to obey. But your post confused me lol. I'm saying since we are saved by grace, we are no longer under the law of sin. We are justified by faith. And the works of that faith are the spiritual nutrition of the Law given by God.

The Law is like someone giving you a banana and telling you to eat it. But one problem, this is your first time seeing a "banana". So what do you do? Do you eat it without peeling it? Do you boil it before you eat it? Well guess what my friend, the Spirit taught us how to peel and properly eat this banana. Thus we learn to obey the command to eat it.

Teach us the commandments, but tell us how? We are saved and by our faith we are justified as righteous apart from works. Now tell us how we ought to conduct ourselves?

The teacher: coveting is sinful, it's against God.
The student: ah okay but I am having a hard time obeying that.
The teacher: why is that?
The student: I don't know how to not covet though I know it's wrong.
The teacher: we must be content and happy what we have so we won't fall into this sinful act.
The student: I see! Be satisfied with what God blessed me!


Teach us what the law says, but don't teach us that we are under the law of sin, bringing confusion to believers. If you teach us the ten commandments, don't forget to teach more of how we must do it under the law of Christ. Walk in the Spirit.

 

[Hizikyah]

Brother John, I'm not saying we are to disobey God, matter of fact I believe that the law teaches us good for us to obey. But your post confused me lol. I'm saying since we are saved by grace, we are no longer under the law of sin. We are justified by faith. And the works of that faith are the spiritual nutrition of the Law given by God.

Romans 7:12,14 "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous. For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin."

Brother bryan, the Law of Yahweh is the oppisite of the law of sin.

The law of sin is the way of satan/the world, everything against the Law of Yahweh.

 

[Bryancampbell]

Brother Hiz,

Thank you for correcting me, I kinda wondered where I went when I said that. Law of sin brings death.

 

[Hizikyah]

I had been taught differently for years and because of that never understood what Shaul (Paul) was really saying. Also the woman whose husband dies thing, its at the beginning of that chapter.

praise Yahweh brother!

 

[KohenMatt]

The Law is like someone giving you a banana and telling you to eat it. But one problem, this is your first time seeing a "banana". So what do you do? Do you eat it without peeling it? Do you boil it before you eat it? Well guess what my friend, the Spirit taught us how to peel and properly eat this banana. Thus we learn to obey the command to eat it.

Teach us the commandments, but tell us how? We are saved and by our faith we are justified as righteous apart from works. Now tell us how we ought to conduct ourselves?
Teach us what the law says, but don't teach us that we are under the law of sin, bringing confusion to believers. If you teach us the ten commandments, don't forget to teach more of how we must do it under the law of Christ. Walk in the Spirit.

The 10 Commandments can be pretty brief in their instructions, I'll grant you that. But as you spend more time reading the breadth of the Torah/Law/Old Testament, those 10 Commandments are broken out into so many different explanations and applications, it's hard to NOT understand why and how God gave those commandments and how and why Jesus gave his 2.

I've known people to assume from the beginning that the entire Law is "done away with" and "not for us" and puts us under the law. So then they read it with that mindset and fail to see the application for us today. Then they complain that the 10 Commandments don't teach us how to not do those things, and that's why Jesus gave His 2 commandments. That whole process causes us to not see the beauty, the revelation and the life-changing power of the entire Law.

Not for salvation's sake, but for daily living and sanctification.

 

[john832]

Brother John, I'm not saying we are to disobey God, matter of fact I believe that the law teaches us good for us to obey. But your post confused me lol. I'm saying since we are saved by grace, we are no longer under the law of sin. We are justified by faith. And the works of that faith are the spiritual nutrition of the Law given by God.

The Law is like someone giving you a banana and telling you to eat it. But one problem, this is your first time seeing a "banana". So what do you do? Do you eat it without peeling it? Do you boil it before you eat it? Well guess what my friend, the Spirit taught us how to peel and properly eat this banana. Thus we learn to obey the command to eat it.

Teach us the commandments, but tell us how? We are saved and by our faith we are justified as righteous apart from works. Now tell us how we ought to conduct ourselves?

The teacher: coveting is sinful, it's against God.
The student: ah okay but I am having a hard time obeying that.
The teacher: why is that?
The student: I don't know how to not covet though I know it's wrong.
The teacher: we must be content and happy what we have so we won't fall into this sinful act.
The student: I see! Be satisfied with what God blessed me!


Teach us what the law says, but don't teach us that we are under the law of sin, bringing confusion to believers. If you teach us the ten commandments, don't forget to teach more of how we must do it under the law of Christ. Walk in the Spirit.

And sometimes when we begin to understand where each of us is coming from, we begin to see we have more common ground than we supposed. The Law of God is not law of sin and death. Paul is a little "hard to be understood" at times...

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[Anonimous]

this would a good cheesy movie for the syfy channel.

 

[KohenMatt]

The Law/Torah can seem to be dead and not applicable, but I would venture to say that in every single Command in the Torah (all 613 of 'em) there is a physical and/or spiritual application and revelation for us today.

 

[Josh321]

we need christ to know we have to labour physically hard 6 days a week for the rest of our life nonstop? the point of the matter that i showed you all that, the covenant that was made with israel after they were brought out of egypt has ended and you still don't care there is nothing more anyone can do i'm done. it's like telling a drug addicted he is addicted to drugs and he reply and say '' no i'm perfectly fine i'm not an addict i can control myself ''

 

[KohenMatt]

Josh, you keep talking about the Law in regards to Salvation. No one else is talking about that. Move on to how we should practically live our life on a daily basis. That's what we're, or at least I am, talking about.

 

[Hizikyah]

Can anyone here who is against keeping of atleast the 10 Commandments tell me what the "mystery of iniquity" is? Ans not some made up meaning but what these words actually mean. Please.

Anyone?

 

[Josh321]

Josh, you keep talking about the Law in regards to Salvation. No one else is talking about that. Move on to how we should practically live our life on a daily basis. That's what we're, or at least I am, talking about.

you don't understand... because of salvation, we can actually be righteous, it is impossible for us to live a godly life no matter how hard we try only god can do that for us through only salvation.. that is the covenant made with us renewing of our mind and heart, now tell me this if our nature will be completely supernaturally changed, why are you trying to follow thou shall not.. shows me something that alot of people are missing here you all need to give your complete lives over to god and let him live the life intended for us in you, the just are suppose to live by faith not by a law if your labouring 6 days for the rest of your life and you can't get pass the 10 commandments how are you living by faith, or how will you even have any trials, that is meant by the just shall live by faith the world will be against you but you still have to put that trust in god, how are you living by faith by following thou shall not, i'm sure your conscience is working overtime because your soul knows what your body truly needs, i pray for you all to understand what grace is.. one day if it's god desire

 

[KohenMatt]

Shakes head........

Josh, The Holy Spirit changes you and causes us to be righteous because of Jesus' salvation. But even you would recognize that the Spirit call us to live our faith out in real and practical ways. It calls us to love God. How? By our faith, our heart and by real physical acts of worship. What acts? Random acts that no one has ever heard of before? Or acts set forth by God that He says are eternal.

God calls us to love our neighbor. How? Just by telling him/her that we love them? Or by showing us how? How? By the acts set forth by God He says are eternal.

Josh, what real and practical acts do you do on a daily basis to love God and your neighbor? Be specific. Give examples.

 

[Josh321]

Shakes head........

Josh, The Holy Spirit changes you and causes us to be righteous because of Jesus' salvation. But even you would recognize that the Spirit call us to live our faith out in real and practical ways. It calls us to love God. How? By our faith, our heart and by real physical acts of worship. What acts? Random acts that no one has ever heard of before? Or acts set forth by God that He says are eternal.

God calls us to love our neighbor. How? Just by telling him/her that we love them? Or by showing us how? How? By the acts set forth by God He says are eternal.

Josh, what real and practical acts do you do on a daily basis to love God and your neighbor? Be specific. Give examples.

i'm showing my love by doing exactly what jesus told us to do preach the gospel have been talking to every person i can talk too or willing to listen not only here but where i am currently living, i've spent hours talking to people all around barbados sharing my testimony of what god has done for me and telling them what they can do also to receive this gift, idk if it was you or someone else but on this thread someone was indicating that we must tell people about the law so they can change.. lol that right there is the blind leading the blind because the bible itself said the gentiles do the things by NATURE contained in the law, now if it's in our nature to do the things contained by law that means, how is thou shalt not save you.. only God can save us, not following something, i share my testimony with whoever i can and use my life as a living testimony to show others how i love them, what do you do? tell people to observe the sabbath and they will be saved? and the holy spirit makes us a servant to God and his word there is no random acts spirit does whatever the word of God says.

 

[Hizikyah]

You say you follow the Messiah, and honestly I believe you, I can tell you are zealous.

Tell me what do you think He meant when He said this?

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Focus on red, I posted other verse for context of what/how many of those ("scary") Laws the Messiah was talking about.

 

[KohenMatt]

how is thou shalt not save you.. only God can save us, not following something, i share my testimony with whoever i can and use my life as a living testimony to show others how i love them, what do you do? tell people to observe the sabbath and they will be saved? and the holy spirit makes us a servant to God and his word there is no random acts spirit does whatever the word of God says.

Again, missing the point that I've repeated over and over again.... I'm not talking about salvation. The law can't save. No amount of obedience or disobedience affects that salvation.


So....

and the holy spirit makes us a servant to God and his word there is no random acts spirit does whatever the word of God says.

Wouldn't it make sense that if God who to follow the Torah/Law eternally, and that Jesus said to follow the Law and to teach others to do so, that we should follow the Torah because we are a servant to Him and what He says in the Word?

 

[Josh321]

You say you follow the Messiah, and honestly I believe you, I can tell you are zealous.

Tell me what do you think He meant when He said this?

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Focus on red, I posted other verse for context of what/how many of those ("scary") Laws the Messiah was talking about.

[h=3]Romans 13:8-10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.



[h=3]1 John 3:23[/h]King James Version (KJV)

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

[h=3]John 13:34-35[/h]King James Version (KJV)

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

[h=3]Galatians 5:14[/h]King James Version (KJV)

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[Josh321]

Again, missing the point that I've repeated over and over again.... I'm not talking about salvation. The law can't save. No amount of obedience or disobedience affects that salvation.


So....



Wouldn't it make sense that if God who to follow the Torah/Law eternally, and that Jesus said to follow the Law and to teach others to do so, that we should follow the Torah because we are a servant to Him and what He says in the Word?

Just end the conversation you won't understand what i mean, but i will tell you this, i wasn't always like this never use to attend church was pretty much totally in the world living my life in vain, until God saved me and redeemed me, since then my life has totally change as you all can see now, so your missing the point, of the power of what happens in salvation, it's a personal experience we all must go through hopefully when you do you will understand what i mean, but God made me righteous when he saved me, thus making my nature completely new i'm not the same and never will be because the old me is dead

 

[KohenMatt]

Just end the conversation you won't understand what i mean, but i will tell you this, i wasn't always like this never use to attend church was pretty much totally in the world living my life in vain, until God saved me and redeemed me, since then my life has totally change as you all can see now, so your missing the point, of the power of what happens in salvation, it's a personal experience we all must go through hopefully when you do you will understand what i mean, but God made me righteous when he saved me, thus making my nature completely new i'm not the same and never will be because the old me is dead

And Josh, I agree with you 100% here, brother. My story, both past and present, is the exact same as yours. EXACTLY. So don't mistake anything I say here as contradicting that, or making light of it. I am talking about how to live after this salvation and redemption.