Attacks on the Rapture: a popular pastime among some Christians

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jul 22, 2020
85
25
18
59
earth.
Soul Sleep is false doctrine. No one sleeps in Heaven. And all the saints go to Heaven immediately upon death. As Paul says "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord". Just like Stephen, the souls and spirits of those who die in Christ go directly to Heaven. And all the saints who have passed on are presently in Heaven (Heb 12:22-24).
I have NO idea how you contrived the notion that all saints who have died are in heaven when Hebrews 12 says no such thing????

One other point to ponder...
misquoting paul's statement (as you have) about being absent the body without the full sentence (abbreviating it) completely changes its meaning to fit the doctrine you prefer. He did NOT say being absent from the body means that we are immediately and automatically in the presence of God in Heaven. Your quote makes it appear to be a statement supporting the notion that we must immediately be in the Lord's presence as soon as we take our last breath. This is untrue and contradicts other scriptures and the basic premise of the Gospel of the Kingdom. It is a Kingdom destined for our current location. We are not going up, He is coming down.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,769
113
I have NO idea how you contrived the notion that all saints who have died are in heaven when Hebrews 12 says no such thing????
Please read Hebrews 12 again. All the saints are in the New Jerusalem, and the New Jerusalem is in Heaven. So I have contrived nothing. On the other hand, spiritual things are spiritually discerned, and the natural man cannot discern spiritual things.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,769
113
It does NOT say that that place is up in Heaven.
Again, spiritual things are only discerned spiritually. So I will leave you to wonder whether the Holy Spirit is telling you whether that place is NOT up in Heaven. The carnal mind cannot discern spiritual things.
 
Jul 22, 2020
85
25
18
59
earth.
Again, spiritual things are only discerned spiritually. So I will leave you to wonder whether the Holy Spirit is telling you whether that place is NOT up in Heaven. The carnal mind cannot discern spiritual things.
So you discerned this 'spiritually'?
and since I am of a carnal mind I cannot see what you can??

okey dokey
 
Jul 22, 2020
85
25
18
59
earth.
Please read Hebrews 12 again. All the saints are in the New Jerusalem, and the New Jerusalem is in Heaven. So I have contrived nothing. On the other hand, spiritual things are spiritually discerned, and the natural man cannot discern spiritual things.
Ok I read it again. Please tell me which verse claims that all saints who have already died are in the new Jerusalem now.