Awake to Righteousness and Don't Sin

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Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,851
2,489
113
#41
What is a works slavationist? I have seen this term but not sure I understand the meaning?
A works salvationist believes that salvation is secured by a person stopping their sinning.. They often believe that belief and trusting in the Atonement of Jesus is not enough that the atonement of Jesus only saves those who can also cease sinning.. The insanity of works salvation believers is that they sin every day in either deeds or thoughts.. But they will because of their belief in works salvation deny that their evil thoughts are sins and that the sins they actually do are not really sins..

A works salvationist.. And there are plenty of them on this website will keep on preaching that we all MUST stop sinning.. When ever you read that MUST do this or MUST do that in reference to sinning you can pretty much be assured that you have a works salvationist preacher on your hands..

Of course sinning is not good and we should resist it as much as we are able.. Doing good works is also good and we should do good works when we see a good work needs doing.. But our performance in resisting sin or doing good works does not play a part in us being saved.. Our salvation is 100% dependent on what we believe and in what we trust.. We MUST believe Jesus and we MUST trust that the Atonement He secured by dying on the cross secures for us forgiveness of all our sins and wins for us eternal life in Gods perfect existence..

Once a person starts mixing in their works into the mix of what saves them they are no longer in the state of salvation..

Now there is Biblical support for our works performance gaining for us greater reward in eternity.. Some will be greater in the kingdom of heaven and some will be lesser in the kingdom of Heaven.. We are told to build up treasure in Heaven i believe that treasure consists of our love for God and love for others and our good works part of that is preaching about the importance of resisting sin and doing good works.. But once a person steps over the line and says we MUST stop sinning to be saved they are preaching a false doctrine..
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,851
2,489
113
#42
What is a works slavationist? I have seen this term but not sure I understand the meaning?
A works salvationist believes that salvation is secured by a person stopping their sinning.. They often believe that belief and trusting in the Atonement of Jesus is not enough that the atonement of Jesus only saves those who can also cease sinning.. The insanity of works salvation believers is that they sin every day in either deeds or thoughts.. But they will because of their belief in works salvation deny that their evil thopughts are sins and that the sins they actually do are not really sins..

A works salvationist.. And there are plenty of them on this website will keep on preaching that we all MUST stop sinning.. When ever you read that MUST do this or MUST do that in reference to sinning you can pretty much be assured that you have a works salvationist preacher on your hands..

Of course sinning is not good and we should resist it as much as we are able.. Doing good works is also good and we should do good works when we see a good work needs doing.. But our performance in resisting sin or doing good works does not play a part in us being saved.. Our salvation is 100% dependent on what we believe and in what we trust.. We MUST believe Jesus and we MUST trust that the Atonement He secured by dying on the cross secures for us forgiveness of all our sins and wins for us eternal life in Gods perfect existence..

Once a person starts mixing in their works into the mix of what saves them they are no longer in the state of salvation..

Now there is Biblical support for our works performance gaining for us greater reward in eternity.. Some will be greater in the kingdom of heaven and some will be lesser in the kingdom of Heaven.. We are told to build up treasure in Heaven i believe that treasure consists of our love for God and love for others and our good works part of that is preaching about the importance of resisting sin and doing good works.. But once a person steps over the line and says we MUST stop sinning to be saved they are preaching a false doctrine..
Adding to my post ^ :

2Cor2 -

12 Now having come to Troas for the gospel of Christ, a door also having been opened to me in the Lord, 13 I had no rest in my spirit, in my not finding Titus my brother. Instead, having taken leave of them, I went out to Macedonia.

14 But thanks be to God, the One always leading us in triumph in Christ, and through us in every place making manifest the fragrance of the knowledge of Him. 15 For we are a sweet perfume of Christ to God in those being saved and in those perishing: 16 to one indeed an odor from death to death, and to the other a fragrance from life to life. And who is sufficient for these things?

17 For we are not like the many, peddling the word of God, but as of sincerity, but as of God, we speak before God in Christ.


2Cor4 -

10 always carrying around the death of Jesus in our body, so that the life of Jesus also should be manifested in our body. 11 For we the living are always being delivered to death on account of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So then, death works in us, but life in you.

What version of the Bible are you using?

2 Corinthians 2: KJV
14"Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. {15} For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:"
Scripture based answer:

Hebrews 10
10 By that will we have been [c]sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being [d]sanctified.

S
Not in my Bible::

Hebrews 10: KJV
14 "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
19,658
8,061
113
54
#43
A works salvationist believes that salvation is secured by a person stopping their sinning.. They often believe that belief and trusting in the Atonement of Jesus is not enough that the atonement of Jesus only saves those who can also cease sinning.. The insanity of works salvation believers is that they sin every day in either deeds or thoughts.. But they will because of their belief in works salvation deny that their evil thoughts are sins and that the sins they actually do are not really sins..

A works salvationist.. And there are plenty of them on this website will keep on preaching that we all MUST stop sinning.. When ever you read that MUST do this or MUST do that in reference to sinning you can pretty much be assured that you have a works salvationist preacher on your hands..
Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus did) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
3,583
1,415
113
#44
Isn’t there enough crazy religions in this world to point fingers at, why would someone would create a thread to bash others within Christianity is odd. I see many threads like this one and no one makes threads about these other religions and practices it is only among the ranks of Christians I see the finger pointing.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
3,865
799
113
#45
What version of the Bible are you using?

2 Corinthians 2: KJV
14"Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. {15} For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:"
Thanks for asking. :)

From the Greek text:

[in 2Cor2:15] G4982 - sōzomenois V-PPM/P-DMP [i.e. present PARTICIPLE (the "-ing" suffix)] "being saved"

- https://biblehub.com/text/2_corinthians/2-15.htm

and like I said, it just means "all them people that's gettin saved" (every day there's more of them!)

In these passages, it is not speaking of "progressive sanctification" of an individual believer/saint... where Chris1975 believes "if we [an individual believer/saint] fail in this, the 'OR ELSE' kicks in" (with the 'OR ELSE' meaning, losing or forfeiting salvation, in his view). I'm saying, this phrase here does not mean that. ;)


Not in my Bible::

Hebrews 10: KJV
14 "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
Verse 14 ^, here, is the same as the above part of my post, where the "participle" is used ("-ing"), but this verse MUST be understood alongside and in view of verse 10 (rather than as a stand-alone), which v.10 says, "10 By that will, we are [present indicative] having been sanctified [PERFECT participle] through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all [/once]."

https://biblehub.com/text/hebrews/10-10.htm

This is positional sanctification (not "progressive sanctification" that takes place after we're saved/after we've come to faith in Christ for salvation).

Hope that helps. :)
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,851
2,489
113
#46
Well i believe we are saved or not saved.. I don't believe it is a process.. It's like a woman.. she is either pregnant or not pregnant there is no half pregnant..
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
3,865
799
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#47
Well i believe we are saved or not saved.. I don't believe it is a process.. It's like a woman.. she is either pregnant or not pregnant there is no half pregnant..
That's why I'm saying this phrase ("those BEING SAVED") is not speaking of "an individual [saint]" BEING SAVED (as in a continual process), but is speaking of "those coming to faith" (lotsa ppl, all the time, every day a bunch more are "gettING saved" [in modern parlance]).

Chris1975 wants to make this phrase to be speaking of an INDIVIDUAL Christian/believer/saint, instead (which isn't what the text is conveying).

These verses I zeroed in on, are not speaking of "progressive sanctification" of an individual believer/saint/Christian (just because the wording is "BEING SAVED"... "those BEING SAVED").
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,367
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#48
1 Corinthians 15
34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.

This verse should settle the whole matter of these endless debates in the Church.

There should be no doubt that this is addressed to the Church. Not unbelievers. But yet you say (we are righteous!). That you are, positionally in Christ through faith in Jesus. Yet you are called to AWAKE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS. How can that be? Because you still have no comprehension that God has not changed one iota towards this topic of SIN. It is what caused the downfall in the garden, it is what caused separation and captivity of Israel, and is the primary cause of Apostacy in the Church. He has given US all the grace we need to live in victory, and live a life led by the Spirit.

When confronted (here on these forums) about obedience, holiness, doing the will of God - there is kick-back. Works salvationists we are falsely called. Yet these very things describe life in the Spirit. When confronting the dangers of sin, the topic of sin becomes one that has already been dealt with at the cross, we are forever righteous and cannot lose our salvation, etc, etc. When confronted with verses which WARN believers against unholy behaviour, we see twisting and squirming - changing words and meanings, and intellectualising. Yet Paul is, of whom you all quote, WARNING those in the church to AWAKE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, and DO NOT SIN. Paul is not in conflict with the words of Jesus. Paul is not in conflict with the words of John. They marry perfectly.

Those who don't understand, or don't "see" this above - don't understand the Gospel at all. They do not have the knowledge of God. Haven't understood the cross to which they claim to cling.

Like Paul says - it is to your shame. For you do not have the knowledge of God.
Awakening to righteousness has a plea for salvation AND an urging to believers that have already been born again.

paul wrote who shall deliver me from this body of death and he also he wrote by the mercies of GOD to present your bodies a Living sacrifice.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,142
662
113
#49
A works salvationist believes that salvation is secured by a person stopping their sinning.. They often believe that belief and trusting in the Atonement of Jesus is not enough that the atonement of Jesus only saves those who can also cease sinning.. The insanity of works salvation believers is that they sin every day in either deeds or thoughts.. But they will because of their belief in works salvation deny that their evil thoughts are sins and that the sins they actually do are not really sins..

A works salvationist.. And there are plenty of them on this website will keep on preaching that we all MUST stop sinning.. When ever you read that MUST do this or MUST do that in reference to sinning you can pretty much be assured that you have a works salvationist preacher on your hands..

Of course sinning is not good and we should resist it as much as we are able.. Doing good works is also good and we should do good works when we see a good work needs doing.. But our performance in resisting sin or doing good works does not play a part in us being saved.. Our salvation is 100% dependent on what we believe and in what we trust.. We MUST believe Jesus and we MUST trust that the Atonement He secured by dying on the cross secures for us forgiveness of all our sins and wins for us eternal life in Gods perfect existence..

Once a person starts mixing in their works into the mix of what saves them they are no longer in the state of salvation..

Now there is Biblical support for our works performance gaining for us greater reward in eternity.. Some will be greater in the kingdom of heaven and some will be lesser in the kingdom of Heaven.. We are told to build up treasure in Heaven i believe that treasure consists of our love for God and love for others and our good works part of that is preaching about the importance of resisting sin and doing good works.. But once a person steps over the line and says we MUST stop sinning to be saved they are preaching a false doctrine..
Just how far do you want to take this idea of yours that you must oppose any work to be sin free? How accepting are you of sin in your life?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,766
3,515
113
#50
No one can dream up any "work" to do to please our Father. We do and are always willing to be used to execute His works. His is not working to earn salvation, we already have it by grace andmercy, it is obeying kGod.

No one who obeys God thinks he has , would or will ever earn anything by attmpting to do God a favor.. Learn this about the obedient and you will not be guilty of judment before its time.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,367
985
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#51
Once a person starts mixing in their works into the mix of what saves them they are no longer in the state of salvation..
I don’t think they were ever saved,those who have had their spirits made perfect by GOD WILL seek to perfect their bodies to match the new creation they have become.

1 John 3:1-3
King James Version

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,367
985
113
#52
Isn’t there enough crazy religions in this world to point fingers at, why would someone would create a thread to bash others within Christianity is odd. I see many threads like this one and no one makes threads about these other religions and practices it is only among the ranks of Christians I see the finger pointing.
Those other religions that are feeling like they are being attacked whether they perceive correctly or Incorrectly have to be called out If the Bible Is our guideline or otherwise someone would think Its ok to be In an errant teaching tickle me Elmo type of church that Is very close to fleshly ways of thinking like a lovely good club to be In.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
3,583
1,415
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#53
Those other religions that are feeling like they are being attacked whether they perceive correctly or Incorrectly have to be called out If the Bible Is our guideline or otherwise someone would think Its ok to be In an errant teaching tickle me Elmo type of church that Is very close to fleshly ways of thinking like a lovely good club to be In.
How many threads though talk about other religions and I’m not taking about Elmo, would a bad club be more suitable does every sermon need to be about the wrongs things, there’s no doubt these tickle me Elmo clubs talk about incorrect things from time to time I’ve witness that in the so called feel good clubs.

Is there a order to how much churches should talk on the not so nice stuff and nice stuff.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,271
418
83
#54
The Bible says that the Lord knows them that are His having this seal, for this is what seals the saints and how they are led of the Spirit that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

If a person hates sin and does not want sin then by the Spirit they can abstain from sin for they will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

But some have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof, from such turn away, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth which they hold unto sin, and are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, and believe they have a relationship with God.

Which if we sin willfully after having received the knowledge of the truth there is no more sacrifice for sins which if we hold unto sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away.

And we know many who claim Christ lack and hold unto sin and the Bible says there will be a lot of hypocrites at the end time.

The truth is we are saved by faith, and not by works, for when we first claim Christ we have not received the Spirit yet to give us power to overcome the flesh so all we can do is have faith, and no works of the flesh at that point will give us a relationship with God.

But even though we have not received the Spirit yet when we first confess Christ it is the Spirit that led us to that point for no person says Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost, and no person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

But many are called but few are chosen which is why Jesus said not all people that say Lord Lord shall be able to enter the kingdom of heaven for they were workers of iniquity and did not do the will of the Father.

When we first confess Christ and are saved all we can have is faith, and our works cannot save us for no works of the flesh can save us.

But Paul said charity, love in action, works, is greater than faith, and faith works by love, and John said do not love in word, neither in tongue, but love in deed, works, and in truth, for love can only apply if it is done in works.

So no love which has to be done in works then Paul said you are nothing and erred from the faith, and James said your faith is dead, and John said the love of God does not dwell in you.

And we know many people lack love by believing that God blesses with money and material things for their wants which Paul said withdraw yourselves from them, and Paul said love does not think an evil thought, and does not sin.

So there is many people that lack love by their hypocrisy and then they say they are saved by faith but Paul said not so.

They try to carry not saved by works throughout their walk with Christ which Jesus addressed two Churches that their works were lacking and to repent or He would go against them for charity, works, is greater than faith, and if we have to have faith then we have to have charity, works.

That is why we have to have works for if we lack then we do not have love, and if we do not have love then Paul said we are nothing, and erred from the faith for Paul is speaking to a person that has been saved, and have the Spirit, and not when they were initially saved which we can only have faith, and our works cannot save us.

They can say whatever they want but it is obvious that we have to have works of love for faith to be active in our life, and we know some people lack this love but then say faith can save them, but love is greater than faith.

That is like someone using a rubber band that cannot hold their weight and going down a steep mountain and thinking that will save them when a strong rope or steel cable is greater than that.

Charity, which can only be done in action, works, is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

So why do they say faith alone and then they lack love and think they are saved.

The Spirit will not twist our arm to do works of love so that is our responsibility to want to do those works before the Spirit will lead us so we have to have works of love to have our faith apply in our life.

For we must have the proper perspective of God and His love, and His kingdom that is love, for to lack that perspective then they lack faith.

When you receive the Spirit the kingdom of God is within you which the kingdom of God is love so if you lack love then how is the kingdom of God in you, and how do you belong to that kingdom.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

It seems to me we better have works of love in our life.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,367
985
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#55
How many threads though talk about other religions and I’m not taking about Elmo, would a bad club be more suitable does every sermon need to be about the wrongs things, there’s no doubt these tickle me Elmo clubs talk about incorrect things from time to time I’ve witness that in the so called feel good clubs.

Is there a order to how much churches should talk on the not so nice stuff and nice stuff.
I am trying to describe so that you can fully understand my point,people In those Elmo I mean Itchy ears type churches don't want to bother other churches and they don't want other churches or Ilk bothering them and I think that's because their church or religion Is more like a cool club but the bible Is not being held as the guideline but their good traditional feelings/traditional values are the goal to reach and not CHRIST.
Everything I guess you could say should be like WWJD.

By the way even Christian Chat doesn't agree with some Catholic teachings.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
3,583
1,415
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#56
I am trying to describe so that you can fully understand my point,people In those Elmo I mean Itchy ears type churches don't want to bother other churches and they don't want other churches or Ilk bothering them and I think that's because their church or religion Is more like a cool club but the bible Is not being held as the guideline but their good traditional feelings/traditional values are the goal to reach and not CHRIST.
Everything I guess you could say should be like WWJD.

By the way even Christian Chat doesn't agree with some Catholic teachings.
I know what you mean, but people don’t have to have multiple churches to go to, they can be happy with just one. Yes that church may not being teaching like your church does. the Bible teaches on good things also it’s not all doom, who to say a church that teaches mainly on the positive feel good things of the Bible is wrong. And yes I am one who doesn’t agree with some of the Catholic teachings yet I have been inspired by some Catholics sister Teresa has some amazing quotes I really like, I’ve been to a Catholic Church and have no problem with setting in.
 

TheIndianGirl

Active member
Nov 22, 2019
183
160
43
#57
Faith without works is dead. We can love and believe all we want, but without works, faith alone does not mean much. It is less about stopping sin (which is impossible) and more about answering God's call and doing what He wants even if we are not prepared or afraid. Imagine if Moses said no to God about leading people out of Egypt, or if Mary said no to give birth to Jesus? Would they have received salvation (yes, I know Moses is from OT)?
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,367
985
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#58
Faith without works is dead. We can love and believe all we want, but without works, faith alone does not mean much. It is less about stopping sin (which is impossible) and more about answering God's call and doing what He wants even if we are not prepared or afraid. Imagine if Moses said no to God about leading people out of Egypt, or if Mary said no to give birth to Jesus? Would they have received salvation (yes, I know Moses is from OT)?
faith without works Is dead means that If you have Faith which Is fruit of the Spirit you WILL do good works but It does not mean do good works that are not sincere from the heart and then you must have Faith.Faith first then good works follow.

Romans 12:1-2
King James Version


1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
3,583
1,415
113
#59
faith without works Is dead means that If you have Faith which Is fruit of the Spirit you WILL do good works but It does not mean do good works that are not sincere from the heart and then you must have Faith.Faith first then good works follow.

Romans 12:1-2
King James Version


1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Interesting how much faith is needed great faith or little faith
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
3,583
1,415
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#60
People don’t do works for God but God works through people and just a little faith is needed