Baptism Essential to Salvation
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Absolutely not true. Who are you to say what MUST be present in scripture to make it valid?
In Luke 13:3 Jesus said unless you repent, you will perish. In John 3:5 Jesus said unless you are born of water and Spirit you cannot enter heaven. Two separate scriptures, three different requirements, ALL essential to being saved! Neither of these scriptures mention faith. Can you be saved without faith? Absolutely not. So your statement is false. It is simply your opinion.
In Luke 13:3 Jesus said unless you repent, you will perish. In John 3:5 Jesus said unless you are born of water and Spirit you cannot enter heaven. Two separate scriptures, three different requirements, ALL essential to being saved! Neither of these scriptures mention faith. Can you be saved without faith? Absolutely not. So your statement is false. It is simply your opinion.
Nowhere in John 3 does baptize appear.
Natural birth (which is by water) does appear.
There was no church to be baptized into in John 3; the church didn't start until Acts 2.
There is no water baptism in John 3.
There is no Spirit baptism in John 3.
There is Spirit regeneration (new birth) in John 3.
And BTW, what do you mean by baptism? Do you mean immersion or sprinkling?
agreed... we are saved by grace alone, through faith in Christ. HOWEVER, it is through baptism that we get 'into' Christ. Romans 6:2-4 and Galatians 3:27-29
This is why Peter say baptism now saves you.. 1 Peter 3:20-21.
This is why Peter say baptism now saves you.. 1 Peter 3:20-21.
BTW, what do you mean by baptism?
Do you mean immersion?
"Baptism" is a convenient way of not translating the word.
So what happens to all the Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, and Episcopalians [& other denominationals] who happen to trust Christ as Savior, but were sprinkled as babies and die without being actually being water-baptized (as defined by dipping, dunking, immersing)?
Are they roasted in the Lake of Fire with weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth?
Seems most people neglect what Jesus said and go straight to Paul. Jesus said they that believe and are baptized shall be saved and those that don't believe are dammed. Notice baptism is not mentioned in the second part and this is not the baptism of the Holy Spirit because if it were they would not have been [non sequitor] water baptizing after his resurrection. Also baptism is not a outward showing of what you confess, The bible says that by baptism you are buried and resurrected with Christ. This is all done by faith. So to teach that baptism is not essential to your salvation I believe is incorrect.n I am not sayign that baptism saves anyone either.
Do you mean immersion?
If so then what happens to all the Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, and Episcopalians [& other denominationals] who happen to trust Christ as Savior, but were sprinkled as babies and die without being actually being water-baptized (as defined by dipping, dunking, immersing)?
Are they roasted in the Lake of Fire with weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth?
Now if it were baptism of the Holy Spirit, why would that have stopped the water immersion?
Lets see the proof that if Christ Baptized with the Spirit (Acts 1:5), that implies no water immersion?
Peter says that baptism is a figure of what saves you (Christ's death, burial & resurrection).
BTW, what do you mean by baptism?
Do you mean immersion?
"Baptism" is a convenient way of not translating the word.
So what happens to all the Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, and Episcopalians [& other denominationals] who happen to trust Christ as Savior, but were sprinkled as babies and die without being actually being water-baptized (as defined by dipping, dunking, immersing)?
Are they roasted in the Lake of Fire with weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth?
BTW, what do you mean by baptism?
Do you mean immersion?
"Baptism" is a convenient way of not translating the word.
So what happens to all the Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, and Episcopalians [& other denominationals] who happen to trust Christ as Savior, but were sprinkled as babies and die without being actually being water-baptized (as defined by dipping, dunking, immersing)?
Are they roasted in the Lake of Fire with weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;
What do you mean by "baptism"? That is not a translation, but a way to avoid saying something.
Do you mean immersion?
If so then what happens to all the Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, and Episcopalians [& other denominationals] who happen to trust Christ as Savior, but were sprinkled as babies and die without being actually being water-baptized (as defined by dipping, dunking, immersing)?
Are they roasted in the Lake of Fire with weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth?
Now if it were baptism of the Holy Spirit, why would that have stopped the water immersion?
Lets see the proof that if Christ Baptized with the Spirit (Acts 1:5), that implies no water immersion?
Do you mean immersion?
If so then what happens to all the Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, and Episcopalians [& other denominationals] who happen to trust Christ as Savior, but were sprinkled as babies and die without being actually being water-baptized (as defined by dipping, dunking, immersing)?
Are they roasted in the Lake of Fire with weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth?
Now if it were baptism of the Holy Spirit, why would that have stopped the water immersion?
Lets see the proof that if Christ Baptized with the Spirit (Acts 1:5), that implies no water immersion?
K
you keep asking about those people who you claim trust Christ...do they ? they follow doctrine of men unless they are born of water and of the spirit they cannot enter the kingdom...How did you get them in Atwood ...?
To be born of water means that you are human, your mama broke water and birthed you, Jesus had to be careful of his words Or he would have opened salvation to angels which have no grace, meaning Satan could be redeemed if Jesus had not said that you must be born of water. It has nothing to do with baptism just as the theif on the cross was not baptized nor any of the twelve.
A
The power and authority is in that NAME ... Jesus!
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
To apply Jesus death, burial, and resurrection, we need to do exactly what Peter said to do...
1. Death = Repent
2. Burial = water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
3. Resurrection = Holy Spirit
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
God bless!
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
To apply Jesus death, burial, and resurrection, we need to do exactly what Peter said to do...
1. Death = Repent
2. Burial = water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
3. Resurrection = Holy Spirit
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
God bless!
It cannot be made anymore simple than this....
A
To be born of water means that you are human, your mama broke water and birthed you, Jesus had to be careful of his words Or he would have opened salvation to angels which have no grace, meaning Satan could be redeemed if Jesus had not said that you must be born of water. It has nothing to do with baptism just as the theif on the cross was not baptized nor any of the twelve.
the shallowest of shallow thinking..what does your mama have to do with this? What is this rubbish about opening salvation to angels and satan??? The word became flesh to redeem man not angels and satan...so many excuses to disobey baptism...to enter the kingdom of God you must be born of water and the spirit that is the key...anyone who comes in by another door is a liar and a thief
Amen, so simple yet often made to be so complicated.
John 12:42-44King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]42 [/SUP]Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
Immersion Necessary for Salvation?
I think this discussion has been obscured by the use of the word "baptize," instead of immerse.
No NewB, Thou shalt not bear false witness, U speak of those who actually trust Christ as Savior, yet never get immersed, having been sprinkled as babies. I would like a straight answer from you to the question:
What happens to all those persons who are sprinkled as babies, trust Christ as Savior (believe in the Son of God), but never get immersed? Do they all go to the Lake of Fire or not?
you keep asking about those people who you claim trust Christ...do they ? they follow doctrine of men unless they are born of water and of the spirit they cannot enter the kingdom...How did you get them in Atwood ...?
No NewB, Thou shalt not bear false witness, U speak of those who actually trust Christ as Savior, yet never get immersed, having been sprinkled as babies. I would like a straight answer from you to the question:
What happens to all those persons who are sprinkled as babies, trust Christ as Savior (believe in the Son of God), but never get immersed? Do they all go to the Lake of Fire or not?
LOL, where did that come from?? Hey Kerry, it's not about natural birth. Quit listening to all those TV evangelists.
Sprinkling Essential to Salvation?
Quite right, NewB. So you repudiate the attack on salvation by faith (alone) by SeaBass who said that the devil was an example of an unbaptized believer.
Now O NewB, does "born of water" mean sprinkling? Is a baby born of water to salvation when he is sprinkled? What happens to the baby if he is sprinkled, grows up, believes in the Son of God, but dies never having been immersed?
the shallowest of shallow thinking..what does your mama have to do with this? What is this rubbish about opening salvation to angels and satan??? The word became flesh to redeem man not angels and satan...so many excuses to disobey baptism...to enter the kingdom of God you must be born of water and the spirit that is the key...anyone who comes in by another door is a liar and a thief
Now O NewB, does "born of water" mean sprinkling? Is a baby born of water to salvation when he is sprinkled? What happens to the baby if he is sprinkled, grows up, believes in the Son of God, but dies never having been immersed?
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Peter did not say baptism is a figure of what saves you ....the flood is a likeness of baptism that now saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ....
Baptism is a picture of the death, burial, & resurrection of Christ -- do you deny that such is the basis of salvation? It is not water, but Christ's atonement that saves.
Now clarify for us how you take 1 Peter. Does baptism there mean sprinkling? If not, then can a sprinkled baby who believes in the Son of God be saved?
Re: Immersion Necessary for Salvation?
We teach them the truth....
that is a foolish question Atwood how can you say they actually trust Christ and not get Immersed/baptised...unto what have you been baptised...what do they believe ???
Acts 19:3
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
We teach them to be baptised ...that is the way
[SUP]
9 [/SUP]But when some were hardened and disobedient, speaking evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus.
I think this discussion has been obscured by the use of the word "baptize," instead of immerse.
No NewB, Thou shalt not bear false witness, U speak of those who actually trust Christ as Savior, yet never get immersed, having been sprinkled as babies. I would like a straight answer from you to the question:
What happens to all those persons who are sprinkled as babies, trust Christ as Savior (believe in the Son of God), but never get immersed? Do they all go to the Lake of Fire or not?
No NewB, Thou shalt not bear false witness, U speak of those who actually trust Christ as Savior, yet never get immersed, having been sprinkled as babies. I would like a straight answer from you to the question:
What happens to all those persons who are sprinkled as babies, trust Christ as Savior (believe in the Son of God), but never get immersed? Do they all go to the Lake of Fire or not?
that is a foolish question Atwood how can you say they actually trust Christ and not get Immersed/baptised...unto what have you been baptised...what do they believe ???
Acts 19:3
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
We teach them to be baptised ...that is the way
[SUP]
9 [/SUP]But when some were hardened and disobedient, speaking evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus.
Re: Sprinkling Essential to Salvation?
you keep bringing up baby ...what does a baby believe???can a baby repent?...it is repent and be baptised....you say believes in the Son of God...if they believe then why are they not baptised...this is what they should believe...the SON of God says those who believe and are baptised shall be saved...
Quite right, NewB. So you repudiate the attack on salvation by faith (alone) by SeaBass who said that the devil was an example of an unbaptized believer.
Now O NewB, does "born of water" mean sprinkling? Is a baby born of water to salvation when he is sprinkled? What happens to the baby if he is sprinkled, grows up, believes in the Son of God, but dies never having been immersed?
Now O NewB, does "born of water" mean sprinkling? Is a baby born of water to salvation when he is sprinkled? What happens to the baby if he is sprinkled, grows up, believes in the Son of God, but dies never having been immersed?
saved through water: which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;
Baptism is a picture of the death, burial, & resurrection of Christ -- do you deny that such is the basis of salvation? It is not water, but Christ's atonement that saves.
Now clarify for us how you take 1 Peter. Does baptism there mean sprinkling? If not, then can a sprinkled baby who believes in the Son of God be saved?
Baptism is a picture of the death, burial, & resurrection of Christ -- do you deny that such is the basis of salvation? It is not water, but Christ's atonement that saves.
Now clarify for us how you take 1 Peter. Does baptism there mean sprinkling? If not, then can a sprinkled baby who believes in the Son of God be saved?
Hebrews 6:5-6American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
A
Does anyone think that the Alligator will ever tell us what his doctrine is on immersion. Does he think that persons sprinkled go to Hell if they are never immersed? And what if they were just sprinkled as babies, yet believe in the Son of God?
Baptism means immersion, period. If one has been sprinkled, he has not been scripturally baptized. God is the final judge, but I would not look forward to going before Him on judgment day without being scripturally baptized..
Babies should not even be in this discussion they can't believe repent or confess. They also have no sin.