Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

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DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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You just prove you have little understanding of what Jesus said.

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. John 7:37-39a

Oh yeeah waaaaayyy too abstract and general for you.
What it really proves is you don't understand the meaning of abstract and general statements.

What is an abstract?

An abstract is a self-contained, short, and powerful statement that describes a larger work.


What would be a general statement?​


A general statement (generalization) is an assertion that something is true in general, in other words, in all the cases in a particular set



 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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What it really proves is you don't understand the meaning of abstract and general statements.

What is an abstract?

An abstract is a self-contained, short, and powerful statement that describes a larger work.

What would be a general statement?​

A general statement (generalization) is an assertion that something is true in general, in other words, in all the cases in a particular set
You talk like an atheist. How much of the Bible do you disregard because is too general, abstract, and esoteric for you????
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come
from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot
understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.​

Perhaps this too is seen as being too general, abstract, and "esoteric."
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,615
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You talk like an atheist. How much of the Bible do you disregard because is too general, abstract, and esoteric for you????
You talk like a mystic. How much of the Bible do you disregard because your "spirit" of discernment tells to ignore it and follow your heart????
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,615
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The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come
from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot
understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.​

Perhaps this too is seen as being too general, abstract, and "esoteric."
Let me help you.

A. It is not abstract since the subjects (Holy Spirit & non-believer) are labeled and the details (does not accept or understand) are limited in scope.
B. It is general since the non-believer is not identified and the topic of discernment is not addressed.
C. Esoteric? Possibly, if used as a defense by claiming to know specifically who does and does not have the Spirit of God. Of course that wouldn't be you.

I hope this helps.
 
Oct 6, 2017
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Still does not mean Roger was calling God an oxymoron. Repent and go dunk yourself again that you may be cleansed of your sin.
Oh, You didn't know, the Cambellites don't have to be dunked again, they believe that their baptism is all sufficient only Jesus part isn't good enough to sustain their salvation, they can loose it, but there baptism, well its good for eternity.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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sorry but it is a command of God to be baptized. Mar 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned.
its the word
Smh,

jesus said in john that one who believes will have eternal life, and one who believes is not condemned, no mention of baptism, he did not contradict himself in Mark or add a work to salvation and forget to say it in other places.

you do not make a gospel of the most important message given t mankind on one or two verses.
 
Mar 8, 2018
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Smh,

jesus said in john that one who believes will have eternal life, and one who believes is not condemned, no mention of baptism, he did not contradict himself in Mark or add a work to salvation and forget to say it in other places.

you do not make a gospel of the most important message given t mankind on one or two verses.
Jesus said in Luke 13:3 that unless you repent you will perish. But he didn't say that in John. So are you saying that you don't have to repent either because he didn't say that in John 3:16? Also he said in John 3:5 unless you are born of the water and the Spirit you cannot get into the kingdom of God. Last time I checked, entering into the kingdom of God is where you find eternal life. But he didn't say that in John 3:16 either. So do we discount all of the other things Jesus said you must do to be saved because he didn't say it in one of the scriptures?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Jesus said in Luke 13:3 that unless you repent you will perish. But he didn't say that in John. So are you saying that you don't have to repent either because he didn't say that in John 3:16? Also he said in John 3:5 unless you are born of the water and the Spirit you cannot get into the kingdom of God. Last time I checked, entering into the kingdom of God is where you find eternal life. But he didn't say that in John 3:16 either. So do we discount all of the other things Jesus said you must do to be saved because he didn't say it in one of the scriptures?
1. No one will have faith UNLESS they repent. And john came teaching about repentance. What do you think Jesus was telling Nicodemus in John 3. That he had to change his thinking, and understand what it meant to be born again. By defenition, he was telling him he had to repent.

2. John 3: 16 is Jesus telling nicodumos HOW to be born again. And HOW you enter the kingdom of God.

3. You do not “do” something to be saved, God saved you, He came to save you, He is offering you eternal life. He will not force it on you though,. You have to want it. How do we show God we want it? See what Jesus said about the tax collector. He repented, He humbled himself. He got on his knees, Because he KNEW he was unworthy, unable to evn look up to heaven, and ASKED God to shew mercy on him.
 
Mar 8, 2018
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No one will have faith UNLESS they repent.
You've got that backwards. No one will repent unless they have faith. You know why muslims don't repent and and Jesus to forgive them? They don't believe he is God. Know why athiest don't repent and ask Jesus to forgive them? They don't believe he exists. That is what the beginning of Romans 10:14 is talking about. How shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? Faith comes first, then action follows.

2. John 3: 16 is Jesus telling nicodumos HOW to be born again. And HOW you enter the kingdom of God.
Sorry, but you are wrong again. John 3:5 is where Jesus told Nicodemus how to be born again and enter the kingdom of God. That is plain as day to anyone who reads it.

[QUOTE3. You do not “do” something to be saved, God saved you, He came to save you, He is offering you eternal life. ][/QUOTE]
You are mixing truth and lies. The first statement "You do not "do" something to be saved" contradicts everything Jesus said. Even using John 3:16 alone, this statement would be false. But your other statements are true. God is the one that saves us, he came to save us, and he OFFERS us eternal life. But you were not automatically saved when he died, was buried, and rose again. He did his part to save you, but we must do our part to receive that salvation. And our part is simply to obey what he said we needed to do in order to be saved which is to believe, repent, be baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You've got that backwards. No one will repent unless they have faith. You know why muslims don't repent and and Jesus to forgive them? They don't believe he is God. Know why athiest don't repent and ask Jesus to forgive them? They don't believe he exists. That is what the beginning of Romans 10:14 is talking about. How shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? Faith comes first, then action follows.
No you have it backwards. You know why Muslims do not have faith? They have not repented. You know why pharisees never had faith? They never repented. John came teaching repentance. The people who did not repent. Never came to faith.

Repent is not an action, It is a change of view or it is a change of thinking,

Repent comes first or there will never be any faith. And if their is no faith, there will never be any action.


Sorry, but you are wrong again. John 3:5 is where Jesus told Nicodemus how to be born again and enter the kingdom of God. That is plain as day to anyone who reads it.
No your wrong. Vs 5 is Jesus telling him WHAT he has to take place, Not how to do it.

In vs 9,. Jesus was asked how these things can be or how they can take place. Jesus told him how starting wiht vs 10.

Of course if your closed minded and demand baptism is in context. You will never see it.

You are mixing truth and lies. The first statement "You do not "do" something to be saved" contradicts everything Jesus said. Even using John 3:16 alone, this statement would be false. But your other statements are true. God is the one that saves us, he came to save us, and he OFFERS us eternal life. But you were not automatically saved when he died, was buried, and rose again. He did his part to save you, but we must do our part to receive that salvation. And our part is simply to obey what he said we needed to do in order to be saved which is to believe, repent, be baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost.

Well you go right ahead and try to be saved by works. I will continue to trust in God and his provision for eternal life.

As jesus sdaid in John 6, even our faith is a work of God. (It is the work of God we believe in the one he sent)

But hey, if you want to work for it. Feel free. Just remember, the jews tried it, and failed. I would not think you would have any better luck than them.
 
Mar 8, 2018
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No you have it backwards. You know why Muslims do not have faith? They have not repented. You know why pharisees never had faith? They never repented. John came teaching repentance. The people who did not repent. Never came to faith.
This doesn't make any sense. Why would someone repent when they don't believe what you are saying? It makes no sense at all. This is exactly what Jesus rebuked Thomas for. He said Thomas, you believe because you have seen, but blessed are they that believe and HAVE NOT seen. Faith comes first, then you act upon your faith. Your actions prove your faith. That is what James said in James chapter 2. You prove that you have faith by what you do. Not the other way around. Your doctrine is not biblical.

Repent is not an action, It is a change of view or it is a change of thinking,

Repent comes first or there will never be any faith. And if their is no faith, there will never be any action.
According to Ezekiel 18:20-22 Repentance is an action. Even in the English language, Repent is a verb. It's something you DO.

Sorry, but you are wrong again. John 3:5 is where Jesus told Nicodemus how to be born again and enter the kingdom of God. That is plain as day to anyone who reads it.
No your wrong. Vs 5 is Jesus telling him WHAT he has to take place, Not how to do it.

In vs 9,. Jesus was asked how these things can be or how they can take place. Jesus told him how starting wiht vs 10.

Of course if your closed minded and demand baptism is in context. You will never see it.
In John 3:3 Jesus said if you aren't born again, you can't even see the kingdom of heaven. Nicodemus's question was "How can that happen?" (I paraphrased) Jesus then answered his question and explained how to be born again in verse 5. To say that verse 5 is not the answer to Nicodemus' question in verse 4 is simply willful ignorance because it contradicts what you believe. It's obvious that Jesus answered his question in verse 5 and explained how to be born again.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Men repent when they see the righteousness of Christ and obtain knowledge of the terrible judgment of God on sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 14, 2011
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This doesn't make any sense. Why would someone repent when they don't believe what you are saying?
You just answered your own question. They have not repented yet, thats why they do not believe.

It makes no sense at all. This is exactly what Jesus rebuked Thomas for. He said Thomas, you believe because you have seen, but blessed are they that believe and HAVE NOT seen. Faith comes first, then you act upon your faith. Your actions prove your faith. That is what James said in James chapter 2. You prove that you have faith by what you do. Not the other way around. Your doctrine is not biblical.
It will never make sense if you do not open your mind and try to figure out what I am saying.

Repent comes first. Thomas saw and repented, and as such believed. Other people did not see. Yet they repented also. And came to faith. You need to klearn =what the word means. Thats your problem.

If I think like the jews I am saved by law. I will NEVER believe in the gospel or have faith in christ (even if I believe in him) I have to repent of the fact that I understand I am not saved by law. Or I will never even have the ability to have faith in the cross.




According to Ezekiel 18:20-22 Repentance is an action. Even in the English language, Repent is a verb. It's something you DO.
An action is something you do to EARN something (see also romans 4) You can bnot EARN something by repenting and comming to faith in Christ.

Your not saved because you TURN from sin, Your saved because you become like the tax collector and call out on Jesus. Because you KNOW your unworthy.

Anyone can turn from their sin, they will still be lost if they do not trust Christ.



In John 3:3 Jesus said if you aren't born again, you can't even see the kingdom of heaven. Nicodemus's question was "How can that happen?" (I paraphrased) Jesus then answered his question and explained how to be born again in verse 5. To say that verse 5 is not the answer to Nicodemus' question in verse 4 is simply willful ignorance because it contradicts what you believe. It's obvious that Jesus answered his question in verse 5 and explained how to be born again.
John 3: 5, Unless one is born of water and spirit.

That is not what you must DO to be saved, that is what must happen TO YOU in order to be saved.

Being born of water and spirit is not a how, it is a why. Please. You come in here with an attitude, unless you want to get one back. Stop.

I told you Vs 9 was nicodemus asking Jesus hgow those things could come to pass (be) jesus answer was that whoever believes in the son sent from the father, Will have eternal LIFE. The word LIFE what happens when you are born again, You are made alive. How are we made alive? By having faith in Christ.

Please do not expect people to listen when you say we are not made alive by having faith in Christ.

 
Jan 25, 2018
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1. No one will have faith UNLESS they repent. And john came teaching about repentance. What do you think Jesus was telling Nicodemus in John 3. That he had to change his thinking, and understand what it meant to be born again. By defenition, he was telling him he had to repent.

2. John 3: 16 is Jesus telling nicodumos HOW to be born again. And HOW you enter the kingdom of God.

3. You do not “do” something to be saved, God saved you, He came to save you, He is offering you eternal life. He will not force it on you though,. You have to want it. How do we show God we want it? See what Jesus said about the tax collector. He repented, He humbled himself. He got on his knees, Because he KNEW he was unworthy, unable to evn look up to heaven, and ASKED God to shew mercy on him.
This is new. John preached, "Repent for the Kingdom of God is near."
Repentance is needed because God is coming.

Nineveh repented because God was going to judge them. They knew what they
were doing before Jonah came, repentance only arrived when judgement and the
reconning was going to happen.

And one repents to God, because one knows He will forgive, or else there is no
point. So faith comes through preaching the word, and faith brings conviction
and a desire to reconcile. It is very clear. God bless those who follow Jesus.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
14,821
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1. No one will have faith UNLESS they repent. And john came teaching about repentance. What do you think Jesus was telling Nicodemus in John 3. That he had to change his thinking, and understand what it meant to be born again. By defenition, he was telling him he had to repent.
Amen! In regards to faith, there are those who fail to understand that there is a deeper, more substantive aspect of faith which is believing exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation and such people cannot distinguish between mere intellectual belief or assent from a personal faith that is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

Such people may even cite that "even the devils believe" (from James 2:19) and will contend that even the "faith of devils" is the same as any other faith except that the faith of devils lacks any good works.

Thus, their understanding gives rise to the reversal of the scriptural order of repentance and faith. To the contrary, we find that repentance actually precedes believe him/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. *Notice the order.

Mark 1:15 - Repent, and believe the gospel. *Notice the order.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus. *Notice the order.

So repentance actually precedes saving belief/faith in Christ. Those who believe in Him/believe the gospel/believe on the Lord Jesus Christ have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to believe. *Also see Acts 11:17,18. To say that I truly repented but I don’t believe the gospel is an oxymoron and to say that I believe the gospel but I never repented is also an oxymoron.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,615
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38
Amen! In regards to faith, there are those who fail to understand that there is a deeper, more substantive aspect of faith which is believing exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation and such people cannot distinguish between mere intellectual belief or assent from a personal faith that is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

Such people may even cite that "even the devils believe" (from James 2:19) and will contend that even the "faith of devils" is the same as any other faith except that the faith of devils lacks any good works.

Thus, their understanding gives rise to the reversal of the scriptural order of repentance and faith. To the contrary, we find that repentance actually precedes believe him/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. *Notice the order.

Mark 1:15 - Repent, and believe the gospel. *Notice the order.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus. *Notice the order.

So repentance actually precedes saving belief/faith in Christ. Those who believe in Him/believe the gospel/believe on the Lord Jesus Christ have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to believe. *Also see Acts 11:17,18. To say that I truly repented but I don’t believe the gospel is an oxymoron and to say that I believe the gospel but I never repented is also an oxymoron.
What are they repenting of? Not believing? Is your definition of repentance to simply start believing in Jesus Christ?