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P
I'm pretty sure that Kenneth's question was for MarcR and not for you. It seems that the quote function wasn't working properly and it might have given the impression that he was disagreeing with you as opposed to actually disagreeing with what Marc had said. I could be wrong, but that's how it appears to me.
Salvation is by grace through faith. (Eph. 2: 8) The gospel, the death, burial, resurrection of our Lord, is the power of God unto salvation to those that believe. (Rom. 1: 16) By faith we pass from death to life. (John 5: 24) Salvation is not by works (of righteousness of which we may boast). (Eph. 2: 9) Those who love have passed from death to life. (1 John 3: 14) The Lord has promised a crown of life to those who love. (James (1: 12) Faith without love is empty and meaningless. (1 Cor. 13: 2) Jesus is the source of eternal salvation to those that obey him. (Heb. 5: 9) Those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel await eternal destruction.(2 Thess. 1: 8, 9) Those who do not keep His commandments (1 John 2: 4) and love (1 John 4: 8) do not know God. We obey the gospel when we obey that form of teaching—death, burial, resurrection—in baptism and then are made free from sin. (Romans 6: 1-7, 17) Faith without works (of faith) is dead and useless. (James 2: 17, 20) We repent so that our sins may be blotted out. (Acts 3: 19) We are baptized to wash away our sins. (Acts 22: 16) The washing of regeneration (baptism) is specifically said not to be a work of righteousness. (Titus 3: 5) We are saved by the washing of regeneration (baptism) and the renewal of the Holy Spirit. (Titus 3: 5, 6) Repentance and baptism are NOT works of righteousness, they are works of faith, the obedience of faith. ( 1 Thess. 1: 3; Acts 6: 7; Rom. 1: 5; 16: 16) Baptism saves us by perfecting our faith. (James 2: 22) In baptism we pass from death to life. (Col. 2: 12, 13; Rom. 6: 1-7) Baptism saves us because when we obey God by repenting and being baptized; He sprinkles us with the blood of Christ. (1 Pet. 1: 2) As our bodies are washed with pure water, our hearts are sprinkled clean by the blood of Christ. (Heb. 9: 14; 10: 22) The Scriptures teach we are justified by works of faith and not by faith alone. (James 2: 24) In Christ, works of righteousness mean nothing, but faith which works through love. (Gal. 5: 6)
God bless.
God bless.
The water- Spirit connection
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3: 5)
In God’s scheme of things there is a water- Spirit connection and unless we make that connection, we will be on the wrong path. We find that connection foreshadowed in the consecration of priests under the old covenant. The priests were washed with water, clothed in the priestly garments and then anointed with the oil of gladness in their consecration as priests of God. IMO the washing with water foreshadows baptism, in water, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The priestly garments foreshadowed being clothed with the righteousness of Christ and the anointing with the oil of gladness foreshadowed the pouring out of the Spirit upon all of God’s people. (Ex. 29: 4- 7)
This washing with water for purification is carried out in many practices of the Jews and is brought together with the pouring out of the Spirit in Ez. 36: 25- 27 were Ezekiel prophesied that God will cleanse His people with the sprinkling of pure water and put His Spirit within them. Jesus was surprised that Nicodemus, a teacher of Israel, did not make this water- Spirit connection.
John the Baptist alludes to this water- Spirit connection when he tells the Jews that he baptizes with water but the One to come, Jesus, would baptize them with the Holy Spirit. (Luke 3: 16)
We also see the water- Spirit connection in the baptism of Jesus. John the Baptist baptized Jesus in water and as He went up from the water, the Spirit of God descended upon Him as a dove. (Matt. 3: 13- 17)
At Pentecost, the water- Spirit connection was revealed. Pete said that those who repent and are baptized in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is to all mankind, Jew and Gentile, as many as God shall call to Himself. (Acts 2: 38, 39) We are not given an explanation of the gift of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, but the gift will be developed with the conversion of Cornelius; he received the same gift.
The water- Spirit connection is confirmed at the conversion of Cornelius and his household. Upon believing the gospel message, God poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit upon them, baptizing them with the Spirit; they received the Spirit as witnessed by speaking in tongues. Peter ordered them to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 10: 45-47) Thus the water- Spirit connection was confirmed.
Today many in the Christian community are confused about the water- Spirit connection, denying either one or the other. Friends we must be born again of both water and the Spirit. The baptism in water and the Spirit make up the one baptism. (Eph. 4: 5) God bless.
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3: 5)
In God’s scheme of things there is a water- Spirit connection and unless we make that connection, we will be on the wrong path. We find that connection foreshadowed in the consecration of priests under the old covenant. The priests were washed with water, clothed in the priestly garments and then anointed with the oil of gladness in their consecration as priests of God. IMO the washing with water foreshadows baptism, in water, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The priestly garments foreshadowed being clothed with the righteousness of Christ and the anointing with the oil of gladness foreshadowed the pouring out of the Spirit upon all of God’s people. (Ex. 29: 4- 7)
This washing with water for purification is carried out in many practices of the Jews and is brought together with the pouring out of the Spirit in Ez. 36: 25- 27 were Ezekiel prophesied that God will cleanse His people with the sprinkling of pure water and put His Spirit within them. Jesus was surprised that Nicodemus, a teacher of Israel, did not make this water- Spirit connection.
John the Baptist alludes to this water- Spirit connection when he tells the Jews that he baptizes with water but the One to come, Jesus, would baptize them with the Holy Spirit. (Luke 3: 16)
We also see the water- Spirit connection in the baptism of Jesus. John the Baptist baptized Jesus in water and as He went up from the water, the Spirit of God descended upon Him as a dove. (Matt. 3: 13- 17)
At Pentecost, the water- Spirit connection was revealed. Pete said that those who repent and are baptized in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is to all mankind, Jew and Gentile, as many as God shall call to Himself. (Acts 2: 38, 39) We are not given an explanation of the gift of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, but the gift will be developed with the conversion of Cornelius; he received the same gift.
The water- Spirit connection is confirmed at the conversion of Cornelius and his household. Upon believing the gospel message, God poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit upon them, baptizing them with the Spirit; they received the Spirit as witnessed by speaking in tongues. Peter ordered them to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 10: 45-47) Thus the water- Spirit connection was confirmed.
Today many in the Christian community are confused about the water- Spirit connection, denying either one or the other. Friends we must be born again of both water and the Spirit. The baptism in water and the Spirit make up the one baptism. (Eph. 4: 5) God bless.
TO: sparkman
Cornelius and his Household were baptized with the Holy Spirit upon believing the word. They were thus born of the Spirit but they were not born of water until they were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Thus they were not saved (enter the kingdom) until they were born of both water and Spirit. The one baptism is the immersion in two elements, water and Spirit, just as the one spiritual birth is a coming forth from two elements, water and Spirit. This exceptional case was made possible by the sovereignty of God and because God knows the hearts of all men. (Acts 15: 8) God bless.
Cornelius and his Household were baptized with the Holy Spirit upon believing the word. They were thus born of the Spirit but they were not born of water until they were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Thus they were not saved (enter the kingdom) until they were born of both water and Spirit. The one baptism is the immersion in two elements, water and Spirit, just as the one spiritual birth is a coming forth from two elements, water and Spirit. This exceptional case was made possible by the sovereignty of God and because God knows the hearts of all men. (Acts 15: 8) God bless.
"ugh,, Lets replace the baptism of the spirit (an act of God). with baptism in water (An act of man), and call it a saving act of faith.
May it not be so!!!!" eternally-gratefull
Response:
In God's scheme of salvation the baptism with the Spirit does not seem to replace baptism in water. Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
(John 3: 5) We need both! The baptism, in water, in the name of Christ is about purification, repentance, identification with our Lord in His death, burial and resurrection. In baptism we die to self and are crucified with with Him, in baptism we are buried with Him so that we might arise with Him. It is about the obedience of faith and perfecting our faith. The baptism with the Spirit, on the other hand, is about life, regeneration, renewal, guidance and the presence of God in our life. God bless.
May it not be so!!!!" eternally-gratefull
Response:
In God's scheme of salvation the baptism with the Spirit does not seem to replace baptism in water. Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
(John 3: 5) We need both! The baptism, in water, in the name of Christ is about purification, repentance, identification with our Lord in His death, burial and resurrection. In baptism we die to self and are crucified with with Him, in baptism we are buried with Him so that we might arise with Him. It is about the obedience of faith and perfecting our faith. The baptism with the Spirit, on the other hand, is about life, regeneration, renewal, guidance and the presence of God in our life. God bless.
E
the problem is your response is 2 fold.
1. The gospel today is the same as it was in Moses day, and in abrahams day, and in king davids day, Through faith in the promised provision of God (which Christ fulfilled)
2. Jesus did not mention baptism in John 3. He answered Nicodemus what he meant. God so loved the world. he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him has eternal life. (no mention of baptism)
My remark stands. You can not replace baptism of the spirit. promised to all and on ALL WHO BELIEVE (prophesied by john the baptist, promised by jesus himself, and confirmed by paul (titus 3, romans 6 1 cor 12 col 2) with the baptism and water, and call a person saved, your committing blaphemy by replacing the work of God with the work of man.
1. The gospel today is the same as it was in Moses day, and in abrahams day, and in king davids day, Through faith in the promised provision of God (which Christ fulfilled)
2. Jesus did not mention baptism in John 3. He answered Nicodemus what he meant. God so loved the world. he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him has eternal life. (no mention of baptism)
My remark stands. You can not replace baptism of the spirit. promised to all and on ALL WHO BELIEVE (prophesied by john the baptist, promised by jesus himself, and confirmed by paul (titus 3, romans 6 1 cor 12 col 2) with the baptism and water, and call a person saved, your committing blaphemy by replacing the work of God with the work of man.
S
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[h=1]John 3:4-7King James Version (KJV)[/h][SUP]4 [/SUP]Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
These scriptures have often been misunderstood. The word "and" here in the Greek is also often translated as "even". In this instance "even" would have been a better translation. Jesus here is using water as a type of the Spirit just as he did with the Samaritan woman at the well in John 4. Jesus expected Nicodemus to understand the reference since he was Pharisee and should have known Isaiah 55 where water is a symbol of the Spirit. Jesus told Nicodemus that he had to be born of water, using water as a symbol of the Spirit, seeing he didn't understand, he then added " even of the Spirit. Jesus drove home this thought by adding," that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
Also much confusion concerning baptism comes about because it is a Greek word that only means immersion, that was never translated into English. Most Christians see baptism as only meaning the ceremony in which we are immersed in water. That is not correct at all. It is the baptism, or immersion into Christ which saves. The baptism, or immersion in water is only an outward symbol if the inward baptism into Christ.
[h=1]John 3:4-7King James Version (KJV)[/h][SUP]4 [/SUP]Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
These scriptures have often been misunderstood. The word "and" here in the Greek is also often translated as "even". In this instance "even" would have been a better translation. Jesus here is using water as a type of the Spirit just as he did with the Samaritan woman at the well in John 4. Jesus expected Nicodemus to understand the reference since he was Pharisee and should have known Isaiah 55 where water is a symbol of the Spirit. Jesus told Nicodemus that he had to be born of water, using water as a symbol of the Spirit, seeing he didn't understand, he then added " even of the Spirit. Jesus drove home this thought by adding," that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
Also much confusion concerning baptism comes about because it is a Greek word that only means immersion, that was never translated into English. Most Christians see baptism as only meaning the ceremony in which we are immersed in water. That is not correct at all. It is the baptism, or immersion into Christ which saves. The baptism, or immersion in water is only an outward symbol if the inward baptism into Christ.
S
Sorry guys, I tried to edit all that jargon that came with my cut and paste but time expired and I wasn't allowed to edit.
John 3:4-7King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
These scriptures have often been misunderstood. The word "and" here in the Greek is also often translated as "even". In this instance "even" would have been a better translation. Jesus here is using water as a type of the Spirit just as he did with the Samaritan woman at the well in John 4. Jesus expected Nicodemus to understand the reference since he was Pharisee and should have known Isaiah 55 where water is a symbol of the Spirit. Jesus told Nicodemus that he had to be born of water, using water as a symbol of the Spirit, seeing he didn't understand, he then added " even of the Spirit. Jesus drove home this thought by adding," that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
Also much confusion concerning baptism comes about because it is a Greek word that only means immersion, that was never translated into English. Most Christians see baptism as only meaning the ceremony in which we are immersed in water. That is not correct at all. It is the baptism, or immersion into Christ which saves. The baptism, or immersion in water is only an outward symbol if the inward baptism into Christ.
John 3:4-7King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
These scriptures have often been misunderstood. The word "and" here in the Greek is also often translated as "even". In this instance "even" would have been a better translation. Jesus here is using water as a type of the Spirit just as he did with the Samaritan woman at the well in John 4. Jesus expected Nicodemus to understand the reference since he was Pharisee and should have known Isaiah 55 where water is a symbol of the Spirit. Jesus told Nicodemus that he had to be born of water, using water as a symbol of the Spirit, seeing he didn't understand, he then added " even of the Spirit. Jesus drove home this thought by adding," that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
Also much confusion concerning baptism comes about because it is a Greek word that only means immersion, that was never translated into English. Most Christians see baptism as only meaning the ceremony in which we are immersed in water. That is not correct at all. It is the baptism, or immersion into Christ which saves. The baptism, or immersion in water is only an outward symbol if the inward baptism into Christ.
In John 3:5, Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit" He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions "water" is certainly unwarranted. In John 7:38-39, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of LIVING WATER. But this He spoke concerning the SPIRIT. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his belly shall flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.
John 4:10 - Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.
John 4:14 - but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. *Jesus connects living water with everlasting life and living water is not water baptism.
John 7:37 - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit..
1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *This is clearly Spirit baptism, not water baptism.
In Jeremiah 2:13, God is called the "fountain of living water." For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living water, And hewn themselves cisterns--broken cisterns that can hold no water. In Isaiah 12:3 we read, "With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation."
Certain people do confuse water baptism with Spirit baptism and baptized/baptism is not always a reference to water baptism. In Luke 12:50, Jesus said He had a baptism to be baptized with and how distressed He is until it accomplished! Of course, Jesus was not talking about water baptism here. He was referring to being immersed into suffering, namely His sacrificial death on the cross. In 1 Corinthians 10:2, Paul said that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses.." Of course the Israelites were not literally water baptized into the body of Moses. So we need to always make sure that we rightly divide the word of truth.
John 4:10 - Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.
John 4:14 - but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. *Jesus connects living water with everlasting life and living water is not water baptism.
John 7:37 - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit..
1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *This is clearly Spirit baptism, not water baptism.
In Jeremiah 2:13, God is called the "fountain of living water." For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living water, And hewn themselves cisterns--broken cisterns that can hold no water. In Isaiah 12:3 we read, "With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation."
Certain people do confuse water baptism with Spirit baptism and baptized/baptism is not always a reference to water baptism. In Luke 12:50, Jesus said He had a baptism to be baptized with and how distressed He is until it accomplished! Of course, Jesus was not talking about water baptism here. He was referring to being immersed into suffering, namely His sacrificial death on the cross. In 1 Corinthians 10:2, Paul said that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses.." Of course the Israelites were not literally water baptized into the body of Moses. So we need to always make sure that we rightly divide the word of truth.
“the problem is your response is 2 fold.
1. The gospel today is the same as it was in Moses day, and in abrahams day, and in king davids day, Through faith in the promised provision of God (which Christ fulfilled)
2. Jesus did not mention baptism in John 3. He answered Nicodemus what he meant. God so loved the world. he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him has eternal life. (no mention of baptism)
My remark stands. You can not replace baptism of the spirit. promised to all and on ALL WHO BELIEVE (prophesied by john the baptist, promised by jesus himself, and confirmed by paul (titus 3, romans 6 1 cor 12 col 2) with the baptism and water, and call a person saved, your committing blaphemy by replacing the work of God with the work of man.” eternally-gratefull
Response: Thank you for your response.
1. I agree that salvation is by grace through faith. But saving faith is not one dimensional, merely believing. The Scriptures tell us that faith without love is nothing (1 Cor. 13: 2) and that faith without works (of faith, the obedience of faith) is dead and useless. (James 2: 17, 20) Thus we see that saving faith comprehends both love and obedience. Abraham’s faith was perfected when he obeyed by offering up Isaac (James 2: 22), likewise our faith is perfected when we obey God by repenting and being baptized in the name of Christ. We are not justified by faith alone. (James 2: 24) Meaningful faith works through love. (Gal. 5: 6)
2. John 3: 16 This is a saving faith that comprehends both love and obedience. Love mingled with faith is the impetus for obedience. (John 14: 15) Love is greater than faith (1 Cor. 13: 13) Because something is not mentioned at one place does not justify diminishing it. Love for God and man are the greatest commandments.
I am certainly not trying to replace the baptism with the Spirit with the baptism in water in the name of Christ, my view is that they together constitute the one baptism. The conversion of Cornelius demonstrates that both are essential. Jesus said one must be born (come forth) from water and the Spirit to enter the kingdom. IMO one cannot come forth from water unless you have first been immersed in water, similarly one cannot come forth from the Spirit unless you have first been immersed in the Spirit. IMO baptism is a work of faith (Gal. 3: 26, 27), which would make it a work of God. Your closing remark is both unkind and insulting. Thank you. God bless.
1. The gospel today is the same as it was in Moses day, and in abrahams day, and in king davids day, Through faith in the promised provision of God (which Christ fulfilled)
2. Jesus did not mention baptism in John 3. He answered Nicodemus what he meant. God so loved the world. he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him has eternal life. (no mention of baptism)
My remark stands. You can not replace baptism of the spirit. promised to all and on ALL WHO BELIEVE (prophesied by john the baptist, promised by jesus himself, and confirmed by paul (titus 3, romans 6 1 cor 12 col 2) with the baptism and water, and call a person saved, your committing blaphemy by replacing the work of God with the work of man.” eternally-gratefull
Response: Thank you for your response.
1. I agree that salvation is by grace through faith. But saving faith is not one dimensional, merely believing. The Scriptures tell us that faith without love is nothing (1 Cor. 13: 2) and that faith without works (of faith, the obedience of faith) is dead and useless. (James 2: 17, 20) Thus we see that saving faith comprehends both love and obedience. Abraham’s faith was perfected when he obeyed by offering up Isaac (James 2: 22), likewise our faith is perfected when we obey God by repenting and being baptized in the name of Christ. We are not justified by faith alone. (James 2: 24) Meaningful faith works through love. (Gal. 5: 6)
2. John 3: 16 This is a saving faith that comprehends both love and obedience. Love mingled with faith is the impetus for obedience. (John 14: 15) Love is greater than faith (1 Cor. 13: 13) Because something is not mentioned at one place does not justify diminishing it. Love for God and man are the greatest commandments.
I am certainly not trying to replace the baptism with the Spirit with the baptism in water in the name of Christ, my view is that they together constitute the one baptism. The conversion of Cornelius demonstrates that both are essential. Jesus said one must be born (come forth) from water and the Spirit to enter the kingdom. IMO one cannot come forth from water unless you have first been immersed in water, similarly one cannot come forth from the Spirit unless you have first been immersed in the Spirit. IMO baptism is a work of faith (Gal. 3: 26, 27), which would make it a work of God. Your closing remark is both unkind and insulting. Thank you. God bless.
To shotgunner:
Thank you for your response. In John 4, 7 Jesus spoke of living water, referring to the Spirit. In John 3: 5 it is not living water, IMO “water” means “water”. IMO you cannot come out of the water unless you have first been immersed in the water; similarly you cannot come out of the Spirit unless you have been immersed in the Spirit.
IMO baptism in water is a symbol of purification, repentance, identification with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection, our own death to self, sonship, justification, obedience to purify our faith, etc. On the other hand baptism in the Spirit is about life, regeneration, renewal, guidance, comfort, entering the body, the presence of God, the sealing and pledge of God, promise, etc. We need them both. God bless.
Thank you for your response. In John 4, 7 Jesus spoke of living water, referring to the Spirit. In John 3: 5 it is not living water, IMO “water” means “water”. IMO you cannot come out of the water unless you have first been immersed in the water; similarly you cannot come out of the Spirit unless you have been immersed in the Spirit.
IMO baptism in water is a symbol of purification, repentance, identification with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection, our own death to self, sonship, justification, obedience to purify our faith, etc. On the other hand baptism in the Spirit is about life, regeneration, renewal, guidance, comfort, entering the body, the presence of God, the sealing and pledge of God, promise, etc. We need them both. God bless.
Some people do not believe that baptism is neccessary for salvation.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God(John 3:5).
Jesus said a person must be born of water and the Spirit to have salvation.
After Peter preached to the Jews concerning Jesus,after the about 120 people received the Spirit on the day of pentecost,the Jews were pricked in their hearts,and asked what shall we do to be saved,and Peter preached to repent,be baptized,and receive the Spirit,which the Bible says they were added to the Church(Acts chapter 2).
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection(Romans 6:3-5).
The Bible we are to identify with Christ's burial by being baptized,which then we are raised in the likeness of His resurrection.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead(Colossians 2:12).
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ(1 Peter 3:20-21).
The Bible says that baptism does save us,but not the washing away of the filth of the flesh,but a good conscience towards God.
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service(Romans 12:1).
Here is what it seems like to me.Jesus went through 3 steps in providing salvation for mankind.He died,He was buried,and He resurrected from the dead,so we go through 3 steps to identify with the man Christ Jesus,but we are a living sacrifice unto God.
We repent of our sins,are water baptized,and receive the Holy Spirit.Since the man Christ Jesus went through 3 steps,we as human beings must also go through 3 steps,but we are a living sacrifice unto God.
But of course if someone cannot get to baptism and they die,they are alright,like the thief on the cross.The thief acknowledged Jesus as the savior when he said remember me Lord when you come in to your kingdom,and Jesus said today you will be with Me in paradise.The thief did all he could do and had no way to be baptized,so in that circumstance the theif was alright and could bypass baptism.
There are certain circumstances where a person might not be able to be baptized,but if it is preached to them and they know it in the Bible then they have no excuse not to do it,but if they want to be baptized but die before they had the opportunity to do it then they are alright.
Some people in other nations might only receive some of the Gospel,repentance of sins,and believe on Jesus,but baptism is not disclosed to them.If it is never disclosed to them,and they cannot come to that understanding of baptism,then they are alright,but if they come to the understanding of baptism by a Bible provided to them,then they should be baptized.
We have to be baptized to identify with the man Christ Jesus,for He is a man that went through 3 steps,and we as a human have to go through those 3 steps,but there may be certain circumstances where a person cannot be baptized,so they would be alright.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But that which ye have already hold fast till I come(Revelation 2:24-25).
There was so much deception and distorting of God's word at this time in the Church age,although God always had people in the truth,that Jesus said hold unto what you do have concerning truth until I come.It could of been years ago that baptism might not of been preached in some areas,and the Bible scarce to the public,so those people could not be responsible if they were not preached baptism,and could not come to an understanding of it,but they repented of their sins,and received Jesus,so they are alright.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God(John 3:5).
Jesus said a person must be born of water and the Spirit to have salvation.
After Peter preached to the Jews concerning Jesus,after the about 120 people received the Spirit on the day of pentecost,the Jews were pricked in their hearts,and asked what shall we do to be saved,and Peter preached to repent,be baptized,and receive the Spirit,which the Bible says they were added to the Church(Acts chapter 2).
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection(Romans 6:3-5).
The Bible we are to identify with Christ's burial by being baptized,which then we are raised in the likeness of His resurrection.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead(Colossians 2:12).
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ(1 Peter 3:20-21).
The Bible says that baptism does save us,but not the washing away of the filth of the flesh,but a good conscience towards God.
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service(Romans 12:1).
Here is what it seems like to me.Jesus went through 3 steps in providing salvation for mankind.He died,He was buried,and He resurrected from the dead,so we go through 3 steps to identify with the man Christ Jesus,but we are a living sacrifice unto God.
We repent of our sins,are water baptized,and receive the Holy Spirit.Since the man Christ Jesus went through 3 steps,we as human beings must also go through 3 steps,but we are a living sacrifice unto God.
But of course if someone cannot get to baptism and they die,they are alright,like the thief on the cross.The thief acknowledged Jesus as the savior when he said remember me Lord when you come in to your kingdom,and Jesus said today you will be with Me in paradise.The thief did all he could do and had no way to be baptized,so in that circumstance the theif was alright and could bypass baptism.
There are certain circumstances where a person might not be able to be baptized,but if it is preached to them and they know it in the Bible then they have no excuse not to do it,but if they want to be baptized but die before they had the opportunity to do it then they are alright.
Some people in other nations might only receive some of the Gospel,repentance of sins,and believe on Jesus,but baptism is not disclosed to them.If it is never disclosed to them,and they cannot come to that understanding of baptism,then they are alright,but if they come to the understanding of baptism by a Bible provided to them,then they should be baptized.
We have to be baptized to identify with the man Christ Jesus,for He is a man that went through 3 steps,and we as a human have to go through those 3 steps,but there may be certain circumstances where a person cannot be baptized,so they would be alright.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But that which ye have already hold fast till I come(Revelation 2:24-25).
There was so much deception and distorting of God's word at this time in the Church age,although God always had people in the truth,that Jesus said hold unto what you do have concerning truth until I come.It could of been years ago that baptism might not of been preached in some areas,and the Bible scarce to the public,so those people could not be responsible if they were not preached baptism,and could not come to an understanding of it,but they repented of their sins,and received Jesus,so they are alright.
S
I think you misunderstood what I said. I'm not saying that the water Jesus is referring to in John when talking to Nicodemus is water baptism. I'm saying that Jesus is using water as a symbol for the Holy Spirit. Possibly it will all come across if you read it again. I think I'm in agreement with you on this.