baptism

[PJW]

Well friend, baptism is a very important subject to discuss, especially when thousands of people are being lead down the road to hell by the baptismal regeneration crowed and their works based salvation! And lets not forget Gal. 1:8 a curse to those who change the gospel! We know that baptism is no where to be found in the gospel as earlier stated and confirmed in this thread.

Has "your" method allowed you to live free from sin?

 

[PJW]

I asked this before but got no answer, if baptism is essential to salvation how was the thief on the cross next to Jesus saved? Again, I am all for getting baptized but it does not save you, only Jesus saves.

Great question...
We read in Romans 6 that we can take part in the crucifixion of Christ when we are "immersed" into Christ and into His death.
We know also that the wages of our past sins is death,
That death occurs on the cross, with Christ.
The thief did exactly as we do during our baptism into Christ.
He died for his sins and was promised paradise by Jesus.

We do exactly what the thief did.
Died for our sins, were buried, and were raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
Thanks to the grace and power of God.

 

[Donmech]

Has "your" method allowed you to live free from sin?

First, its not my method, its God's method, second, as long as I am steal occupying this cursed un-glorified body I will not be free from sin, however, the new man within me is free from sin. I have two natures, the old man with a natural desire to sin and the new man which I received when I was born-again, who has no sin. One day, either when I die or at Christ return, I will be given that new glorified body with-out sin. At that point I can say I have no sin, until then I must contend with that inner battle that Paul spoke in Rom. 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. (verse 20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

 

[Donmech]

Great question...
We read in Romans 6 that we can take part in the crucifixion of Christ when we are "immersed" into Christ and into His death.
We know also that the wages of our past sins is death,
That death occurs on the cross, with Christ.
The thief did exactly as we do during our baptism into Christ.
He died for his sins and was promised paradise by Jesus.

We do exactly what the thief did.
Died for our sins, were buried, and were raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
Thanks to the grace and power of God.

That is the most blasphemes heretical explanation of salvation I have ever heard. Are these Cambellites really teaching people this unscriptural, foolishness? How can any one twist the teaching of the gospel so badly? The fact is that Rom. 1: 16 says: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Its the gospel that save and baptism cant be found within 100 miles of the gospel. its not there. The thief on the cross believed and was saved because of his faith in Jesus and that alone was sufficient.

 

[MarcR]

Originally Posted by hornetguy

I am not the one that insists it is required. Jesus and the apostles insisted that.... I just believe it.

Jesus and the apostles did not say one must be baptised to be saved, You are.

I agree that it is not required for Salvation; however, I believe that it is required for obedience, unless something beyond your control prevents it.

 

[Snoozy]

if we just obeyed the commandment of Jesus we wouldnt need threads like this and debates like this.
teach what Jesus said, then baptize right away no need to wait for such a long time.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if we just obeyed the commandment of Jesus we wouldnt need threads like this and debates like this.
teach what Jesus said, then baptize right away no need to wait for such a long time.

I am sure everyone here has obeyed, thats not the issue.

as long as people say it is required. There will always be an issue

 

[PJW]

First, its not my method, its God's method, second, as long as I am steal occupying this cursed un-glorified body I will not be free from sin, however, the new man within me is free from sin. I have two natures, the old man with a natural desire to sin and the new man which I received when I was born-again, who has no sin. One day, either when I die or at Christ return, I will be given that new glorified body with-out sin. At that point I can say I have no sin, until then I must contend with that inner battle that Paul spoke in Rom. 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. (verse 20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

I thought that God's method included rebirth?
It also included the way to kill the old man-flesh, (Rom 6:3-6), with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
As fr your Romans 7 allusion...
The first few verses of Ro 7 clearly show that it is speaking of a former time. Verse 5..."For when we WERE in the flesh..."
The entire middle of Ro 7 is about Paul's former life as a Pharisee; trying to live the Mosaic Law, but failing. And again, a reference to the past in verse 18; (that is, in my flesh).
And the end, especially verse 23; "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to THE LAW OF SIN which is in my members."...points again to a former time. Because....
we read in Romans 8:2...."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from THE LAW OF SIN and death.
Why would Paul be subject to something he is free of?
If you could see the truth of Ro 7, and its proximity to Ro 6, which speaks of baptism and the death of the flesh, you would see that Paul is making the past-present transition, and Ro 8 continues on into the life walked in the Spirit.

 

[PJW]

That is the most blasphemes heretical explanation of salvation I have ever heard. Are these Cambellites really teaching people this unscriptural, foolishness? How can any one twist the teaching of the gospel so badly? The fact is that Rom. 1: 16 says: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Its the gospel that save and baptism cant be found within 100 miles of the gospel. its not there. The thief on the cross believed and was saved because of his faith in Jesus and that alone was sufficient.

It wasn't a thesis about salvation, but about rebirth and the death of the old man.
Salvation won't come till after the final judgement. (Matt 7:22-23)

 

[mailmandan]

It wasn't a thesis about salvation, but about rebirth and the death of the old man.
Salvation won't come till after the final judgement. (Matt 7:22-23)

You are confusing glorification with justification, which is a common error made by works-salvationists. There are 3 tenses to salvation. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification).

John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has (present tense) everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

 

[PJW]

You are confusing glorification with justification, which is a common error made by works-salvationists. There are 3 tenses to salvation. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification).

John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has (present tense) everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

You have dumped the simplicity of Christ for a human based 23(?) step program.

Want to be perfect?
Quit committing sin.
God gives you everything necessary to do so, instantly, when you have a REAL repentance from sin.
You have adopted a "program" instead of the love of God and neighbor.

 

[mailmandan]

You have dumped the simplicity of Christ for a human based 23(?) step program.

Want to be perfect?
Quit committing sin.
God gives you everything necessary to do so, instantly, when you have a REAL repentance from sin.
You have adopted a "program" instead of the love of God and neighbor.

Justification, ongoing Sanctification and Glorification IS BIBLICAL and is not dumping the simplicity of Christ for a human based step program. You are dumping the simplicity of Christ for your suffering from a terminal case of self righteous program. You have adopted a "self righteous works system" instead of love of God and neighbor.

 

[fredoheaven]

Do you really think Peter was wrong?
He said..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)

The water IS the blood.
It is written..."And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." (1 John 5:8)

They are the same thing.

Luke, the writer and Peter who said it is not/never wrong, only those who interpret water saves are in gross error. Acts 2:38 is already explained in this thread and in many ‘similar’ thread. You just failed to counterpoint those that have already been pointed out.

In so far, you have just misapplied 1 John 5:8 thinking “the water is the blood”. Am I reading with understanding? Let me see:
1.My Bible in English specifically written as, “…and the water,(comma) and the blood:...” (Emphasis is mine)These earthly witnesses testify also to the Lord Jesus Christ during His crucifixion where water and blood came out on His pierced side. They are not the same thing as you are asserting.

John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

2.The bible used the word “and” to indicate there are two things. The word simply means addition. Your “is” is simply wrong.

3.The “water and the blood” simply “agree in one”, they are not absolute “one”. Things that are different are not the same.

4.The Biblical demonstration of the emblem of the water is found in Ephesians 5:26 which is the word of God.
Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

5.1 John 5:8 simply means one of the witness is water, another witness is the blood. The only similarity of these earthly witnesses is that they simply agree in one not because they are one.

 

[fredoheaven]

Romans 6:3-6 states that our baptism is our immersion into Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection..."to walk in newness of life".
Why don't you have faith that this is true? [/I]

You are jumping to conclusions that counter what is plainly written.


The proof of it's truth is provided by Paul in verse 7..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."
If you still commit sin, your method is wrong.

Verse 7 speaks of “freed from sin” but who freed us from sin? I believe it is Jesus’ blood who freed us from sin not waters of baptism.

 

[fredoheaven]

I find it sad that you would deny what you quoted with your own perception.

Of course there is no denying where the scripture of truth specifically says, the old man is crucified with him(Christ) and have been made alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord v.10 and not by water baptism.

 

[fredoheaven]

When/ where is the blood applied?
On the cross when we are "immersed" into Christ and into His death.

The cross is only the means of death or crucifixion where Jesus was nailed and blood was poured out for our redemption. It is only applied when one sinner believes in Christ. When one believes Christ, he is spiritually baptized(no water) in to his body. 1 Corinthians 12:13
He is born again. John 3:
1 Cor. 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptizedwith water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

 

[PJW]

Justification, ongoing Sanctification and Glorification IS BIBLICAL...

Ever met any sanctified people?
Surely some of the folks you know who are gradually getting sanctified have reached their goal, right?
How would you recognize a sanctified person?
Wouldn't freedom from sin be the biggest give-away?

If you haven't met a sanctified person yet, wouldn't that show it's falsity?
You are trying to attain the "impossible dream" by your own works.

Why not accept the sanctification done by God when He applies Christ's blood to your body as it is dying with Jesus on the cross? (Rom 6:3-6)
It is written..."Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." (Heb 10:9-10)
It is written..."And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Cor. 6:11)
You too can be washed/sanctified, made new, reborn.

 

[PJW]

Verse 7 speaks of “freed from sin” but who freed us from sin? I believe it is Jesus’ blood who freed us from sin not waters of baptism.

Are you free from sin?
Are you a non-sinner?

 

[PJW]

Of course there is no denying where the scripture of truth specifically says, the old man is crucified with him(Christ) and have been made alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord v.10 and not by water baptism.

Again you deny the scripture you site.
It is written..."[FONT=&quot]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;" (Col 2:12-13)
it seems you are incapable of correlating Col 2 with Rom 6.[/FONT]

 

[fredoheaven]

Are you free from sin?
Are you a non-sinner?

This is irrelevant questions to the OP on hand.