Baptist and Baptism

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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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The great commission tells us to baptise people in the name of father, son and holy ghost. It is a symbolic act of having your sins washed away. Adding confusion to it there is arguments about the mode of baptism, dunking, pouring, and sprinkling. In no text in the Bible does it say it is a requirement for salvation. The only possibility is abject refusal to be baptized. That calls into the concept that the person is not really a Christian. There are denominations that believe baptism is required for salvation.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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What?....the other one didn't request consideration did he?...please quote it....I think you are trying to combine a point that does not exists.
Luke 23:39-43
39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

If I understand your question then the above verses answer it.
If not be more specific.
Only one was told he would be in paradise.

Now if you assume the one in paradise was baptised and it's baptism that saves then we have to assume the other was baptised and would have had the same experience and knowledge as the other.

If that's the case then why was the other thief not told he would be with Jesus in paradise?

I asked you if the thief on the cross was baptised?

You responded with.

Read my previous posts...He could have been and was a backslider....because He seemed familiar with who Christ is. Also He doesn't have to be if Christ declares special consideration.
I assume the above quote references the thief who asked Jesus to remember him.

So he could have been and was a backslider. Seemed to be familiar with Jesus as you say.
If that's the case then maybe the other thief was as well?
So both have backslidden to the extent they are being crucified for it.
So what saved one and not the other?
So a person can be backslidden and still be saved?
This I agree with.
But this beggars the question.
If the other thief was baptised and backslidden why was he not saved?
Why would Jesus declare special consideration to one and not the other if both were baptised?

Which raises the point.

You say "Also he doesn't have to be"

If that's the case then why has it changed after the resurrection of Jesus?
There will be many belivers who are not baptised before they die.
No special consideration?

G-d knows what is in our hearts at time of death.
If that point was the case many Christians would be lost for the last sin on their garment at death. G-d is most understanding.
You obviously believe that not being baptised is a sin because we do not be with Jesus in eternity.
A sin that stops us being saved.

Your above quote negates that.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,352
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Uh Huh...why not quote the proper ones;



Not hardly...(that is a spin)... because He says we must be baptized. Does He say we don't
have to repent? Not hardly.
Repent of what?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
25,575
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If that's the case then maybe the other thief was as well?
the two thieves appear to be familiar - for one says to the other, "we receive the due reward of our deeds" - he knows what the other did, and they are condemned together, on the same charge, maybe even for the very same crime.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
43,524
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the two thieves appear to be familiar with each - for one says to the other, "we receive the due reward of our deeds" - he knows what the other did, and they are condemned together, on the same charge, maybe even for the very same crime.
They were and if all accounts are studied they were also tied to Barrabas....ALL THREE were to be crucified for murder, insurrection and thievery.....Barrabas was spared and an innocent man took his place.....even in death the lamb without spot or blemish paying the price for the solid black goat!!!!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Please show scripture that he was not baptized.?
please show scripture that he was baptized?

the point isn't 'don't do any good thing if you're saved because no good thing will save you' - no one is saying or even thinking that. the point is the power of the gospel, which is whoever calls on His name will be saved. whoever looks to Him raised up, like the brazen serpent, will be saved. whoever puts their trust in Him will not be put to shame. do good because you rejoice to do it - because He is good, and to join Him in well-doing is the fitting reply to the love wherewith He first loved us: a love with no precondition, no justification other than faith, and hurdle or hoop to pass through. just like the Baptist confession of 1644 says, coincidentally. the idea that salvation is free didn't just arise in the 60's

so please stop acting like your brothers and sisters in Christ are your enemies?
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
398
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The early elders created the creeds to define what a Christian must believe. Anything outside of the creeds is to agree to disagree. Anything contrary to the creeds is heresy. The creeds were used back then to be an easily memorized method of evangelism. Keep in mind that the printing press wasn't invented until approaching 1700 years later. Thus Bibles were rare and very expensive since a scribe copied it by hand. Baptism is not mentioned in the creeds.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
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The great commission tells us to baptise people in the name of father, son and holy ghost. It is a symbolic act of having your sins washed away. Adding confusion to it there is arguments about the mode of baptism, dunking, pouring, and sprinkling. In no text in the Bible does it say it is a requirement for salvation. The only possibility is abject refusal to be baptized. That calls into the concept that the person is not really a Christian. There are denominations that believe baptism is required for salvation.
That's not biblical.
Why don't you show scripture where the Bible does not require baptism.
Why don't you respond to the post where I listed Bible references...requiring baptism.
Is that too difficult for you?

Just saying baptism is not required don't get it. Where is the beef?

You can't change G-d's word.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,036
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Texas
Please show scripture that he was not baptized.?
He was on a cross talking to Jesus, ya recon' they took him down and baptized him then hung him back up?
Luke 23:39-43 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
39 One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!”40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?41 And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.”42 And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” 43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

No mention of taking him down to baptize him. Or even throwing a bucket of water on him. Just came to faith there on the cross and died.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
25,575
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That's not biblical.
Why don't you show scripture where the Bible does not require baptism.
Why don't you respond to the post where I listed Bible references...requiring baptism.
Is that too difficult for you?

Just saying baptism is not required don't get it. Where is the beef?

You can't change G-d's word.
why don't you acknowledge that the Baptist confession of 1644 already provided what you are demanding of these other people?

V.

All mankind being thus fallen, and become altogether dead in sins and trespasses, and subject to the eternal wrath of the great God by transgression; yet the elect, which God has(1) loved with an everlasting love, are(2) redeemed, quickened, and saved, not by themselves, neither by their own works, lest any man should boast himself, but wholly and only by God of(3) His free grace and mercy through Jesus Christ, who of God is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption, that as it is written he that rejoices, let him rejoice in the Lord.
1) Jer. 31:2
2) Gen 3:15; Eph. 1:3, 7; 2:4, 9; 1 Thes. 5:9; Acts 13:38
3) 1 Cor.5:21; Jer. 9:23, 24


1644 Baptist confession of faith
XXV.


That the tenders of the Gospel to the conversion of sinners,(1) is absolutely free, no way requiring, as absolutely necessary, any qualifications, preparations, terrors of the Law, or preceding ministry of the Law, but only and alone the naked soul, as a(2) sinner and ungodly to receive Christ, as Christ, as crucified, dead, and buried, and risen again, being made(3) a Prince and a Savior for such sinners.
1) John 3:14, 15; 1:12; Isa. 55:1; John 7:37
2) 1 Tim. 1:15; Rom. 4:5; 5:8
3) Acts 5:30-31; 2:36; 1 Cor. 1:22-24


1644 Baptist Confession of Faith
XXVIII.

That those which have union with Christ, are justified from all their sins, past,(1) present, and to come, by the blood of Christ; which justification we conceive to be a gracious and free(2) acquittance of a guilty, sinful creature, from all sin by God, through the satisfaction that Christ has made by His death; and this applied in the manifestation of it through faith.
1) John 1:7; Heb 10:14; 9:26; 2 Cor. 5:19; Rom. 3:23
2) Acts 13:38, 39; Rom. 5:1; 3:25, 30




1644 Baptist Confession of Faith
XXXIX.

That Baptism is an ordinance of the New Testament, given by Christ, to be dispensed only upon persons professing faith, or that are Disciples, or taught, who upon a profession of faith, ought to be baptized (Added later: "...and after to partake of the Lord's Supper.")
Acts 2:37, 38; 8:36-38; 18:8

XL.

The way and manner of the(1) dispensing of this ordinance the Scripture holds out to be dipping or plunging the whole body under water: it being a sign, must answer the thing signified, which are these: first, the(2) washing the whole soul in the blood of Christ; secondly, that interest the saints have in(3) death, burial, and resurrection (of Christ) ; thirdly, together with a(4) confirmation of out faith, that as certainly as the body is buried under water, and rises again, so certainly shall the bodies of the saints by raised by the power of Christ, in the day of the resurrection, to reign with Christ.
1) Mat. 3:16; John 3:23; Acts 8:38
2) Rev. 1:5; 7:14; Heb. 10:22
3) Rom. 6:3-5
4) 1 Cor. 15:28, 29


1644 Baptist Confession of Faith
this is all back on page 4; there are scripture references with each article of the confession which give the basis for which the confession is made.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,352
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Are you really asking that question on a Christian site?? You've got to be kidding!!
Yep to the first and no to the second.

What did Jesus tell us to repent off?
As I asked Preston.
I was trying to solicit an answer.

What did Jesus say about the helper, the Holy Spirit coming after he went back to heaven?

FYI I suggest you change your approach.

Rather than post the way you did you could have asked what I was trying to get at or even ask me what my thoughts were.

I am so glad I asked that question and not someone on here who is seeking Jesus.
Your response could have caused more harm than good.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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why don't you acknowledge that the Baptist confession of 1644 already provided what you are demanding of these other people?









this is all back on page 4; there are scripture references with each article of the confession which give the basis for which the confession is made.
Not biblical.
It seems you like that approach.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
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You can read the scriptures ...I am sure.
I suspect you will reject them anyway. A form of harassment...huh?...when you have no scripture to defend your position.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
398
83
Yep to the first and no to the second.

What did Jesus tell us to repent off?
As I asked Preston.
I was trying to solicit an answer.

What did Jesus say about the helper, the Holy Spirit coming after he went back to heaven?

FYI I suggest you change your approach.

Rather than post the way you did you could have asked what I was trying to get at or even ask me what my thoughts were.

I am so glad I asked that question and not someone on here who is seeking Jesus.
Your response could have caused more harm than good.
Any Christian knows the answer to that question. My point is what are you trying to accomplish!! Out the person as not a Christian?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
43,524
16,735
113
The early elders created the creeds to define what a Christian must believe. Anything outside of the creeds is to agree to disagree. Anything contrary to the creeds is heresy. The creeds were used back then to be an easily memorized method of evangelism. Keep in mind that the printing press wasn't invented until approaching 1700 years later. Thus Bibles were rare and very expensive since a scribe copied it by hand. Baptism is not mentioned in the creeds.
The bible defines what I must believe not a creed written by men...... hah