Baptizing

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hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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You are correct by saying that baptism FOLLOWS conversion and that baptism SIGNIFIES to everyone the change..

*But baptism DOES NOT CAUSE the change. Huge difference! A symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality. ;)
I agree with that. Obviously, one has to be converted, in order to be convinced that baptism is necessary. Look at the Ethiopian... he was convinced/convicted/converted and said "here's water, what should prevent my baptism?" The so-called great commission.... teach the gospel to all nations (convert them) baptizing them in the name, etc..... Baptism is the completion of, or the natural result of, conversion. I think the Word tells us it is a necessary part of the process of salvation. Some have tried to simplify it down to just "accept Jesus into your heart" and all is done. I think that scripture is pretty clear there's more to the process than that. That's the obvious first or second step, but there's more to the natural progression of events than just thinking happy thoughts.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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I could just as easily say look at the comparison of Acts 3:19 and Mark 1:15 and say "be converted" is put for "believe the gospel."

Acts 3:19 - repent and be converted.

Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe the gospel.

*Notice that Peter "did not say" repent (and be baptized) and be converted in Acts 3:19.

Converted is the result of repent and believe the gospel. Where only one is mentioned in regards to receiving salvation, the other is implied or assumed. The new direction of this change of mind in repentance is believe the gospel. Those who have repented believe the gospel and those who believe the gospel have repented. Repent and believe the gospel are inseparable in conversion. Not so with baptism. You can repent and believe the gospel but NOT YET BE WATER BAPTIZED.
Convert just means to turn around. Repent (change your mind) and convert (turn around) towards the erasure of your sins.

Convert
G1994 ἐπιστρέφω epistrepho (ep-ee-stref'-o) v.
1. to revert
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Convert just means to turn around. Repent (change your mind) and convert (turn around) towards the erasure of your sins.

Convert
G1994 ἐπιστρέφω epistrepho (ep-ee-stref'-o) v.
1. to revert
When we repent, we change our mind towards God (turn around from unbelief and practicing sin) to faith in Christ for salvation BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18). Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. The fruit of repentance is performing deeds in keeping with repentance; practicing righteousness and not sin (Acts 26:20; 1 John 3:9-10).

So we are converted when we revert, turn through repentance/faith. This indicates a decisive change, consequent upon a deliberate choice; conversion is a voluntary response to the presentation of truth. Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who BELIEVES..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
When we repent, we change our mind towards God (turn around from unbelief and practicing sin) to faith in Christ for salvation BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18). Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. The fruit of repentance is performing deeds in keeping with repentance; practicing righteousness and not sin (Acts 26:20; 1 John 3:9-10).

So we are converted when we revert, turn through repentance/faith. This indicates a decisive change, consequent upon a deliberate choice; conversion is a voluntary response to the presentation of truth. Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who BELIEVES..

Amen bro. One will not have true faith in God unless they repent. Mere belief (Those who agree that Jesus died on the cross) wil never save anyone, only a total trust in the work of the cross. This will only occure after one completely repents.. No wish washy repenting will save anyone.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Amen bro. One will not have true faith in God unless they repent. Mere belief (Those who agree that Jesus died on the cross) wil never save anyone, only a total trust in the work of the cross. This will only occure after one completely repents.. No wish washy repenting will save anyone.
Amen! There is a difference between believing in our head that Jesus died on the cross (I believe that the death, burial and resurrection "happened," even the demons believe that) and believing in our heart that Jesus died on the cross (I trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-suffcient means of my salvation) and will only occur when one truly repents. TOTAL trust in the work of the cross. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save us. No supplements needed. :)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Amen! There is a difference between believing in our head that Jesus died on the cross (I believe that the death, burial and resurrection "happened," even the demons believe that) and believing in our heart that Jesus died on the cross (I trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-suffcient means of my salvation) and will only occur when one truly repents. TOTAL trust in the work of the cross. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save us. No supplements needed. :)
Thats why John the baptist came, To tell the jews to repent, for the kingdom of God was at hand, They had to change everything they thought to believe, Just like the two witnesses in revelation will be teaching repent, and those who do not.. well.. Not Good..
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Thats why John the baptist came, To tell the jews to repent, for the kingdom of God was at hand, They had to change everything they thought to believe, Just like the two witnesses in revelation will be teaching repent, and those who do not.. well.. Not Good..
Amen! Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Amen! Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Sadly many believe in Jesus, but have never repented.. Jesus spoke of this day, Using their works as a means to get to heaven, Jesus said, Depart for I never knew you (they too failed to repent.)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I find it funny that those that know they need Christ's righteousness and not relying on their own good works ...these people grab onto the things that Jesus did for us on the cross.....John the Baptist and Jesus both had very stern words for the self-righteous D.I.I holiness religious people of their day....I wonder if things have changed today?...just sayin'


Amen! Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Sadly many believe in Jesus, but have never repented.. Jesus spoke of this day, Using their works as a means to get to heaven, Jesus said, Depart for I never knew you (they too failed to repent.)
Yes, sadly many believe "mental assent" in the existence and historical facts about Jesus, but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes, sadly many believe "mental assent" in the existence and historical facts about Jesus, but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation.
Thats because they can not get out of their own way, They have to feel they have a part in their salvation. And because of this pride, they can not fully trust Christ (even though they claim they do)

The law has not broken them yet.. So they look religious, Sound religious, And will even praise God and do his commands. Thats all they have, religion..
 
Dec 19, 2009
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Is it a sin to not be baptized, once you are saved?
I think baptism is a symbolic act. I have been baptized, and if I hadn't been, I probably would go have it done, but I don't think you are going to hell for not having been baptized. We are supposed to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves. On those two commandments hang all the law and prophets. To worry about technicalities is a waste of energy, isn't it?
 
May 15, 2013
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Is it a sin to not be baptized, once you are saved?
The Baptizing process in the OT was done by water, but now it is done in the spirit. During the NT times, practicing any rituals was a crime, like the Christians, if they were caught by the Jews practicing Christianity, they were prosecuted; and later if anyone, even the Jews, if they were practicing any monotheism belief, that they were locked up as well. And at the time, they did not had a pool to bathe in every homes. And so they could not have been going over Fred's house to bathe in his tub and or using the public pool without being seen. But in Acts, in said they had Baptized by the laying their hands upon them and giving them the spirit of God, that is the living water that flows within them. In the OT times, they has done things physically, that they had demonstrated in the natural of what is being done in the spirit. And so as what Paul had said for them not to affix their eyes on what is seeing, but to focus more on the unseen, because God is spirit and that He wants us all to start focusing on His realm, the unseen, so that they can feel His presence.


Acts 5:21 At daybreak they entered the temple courts, as they had been told, and began to teach the people. When the high priest and his associates arrived, they called together the Sanhedrin—the full assembly of the elders of Israel—and sent to the jail for the apostles.
 
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Convert just means to turn around. Repent (change your mind) and convert (turn around) towards the erasure of your sins.

Convert
G1994 ἐπιστρέφω epistrepho (ep-ee-stref'-o) v.
1. to revert
At the time, they did not show any shame of their wrong doing, but had put themselves over others. God wanted them to humble themselves as the way John has humbled himself by not wearing fancy clothing and having a nice home to live in. Back in those days, the way they shown repentance is by demonstrating it by the natural, like how children does to show that they are sad. But God want it to come from the heart, that is what He look at, but not by the expression on their face or their appearances, like the way they has done to show that they are fasting.


Jeremiah 6:15 Are they ashamed of their detestable conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when I punish them,” says the Lord.

Jeremiah 13:26 I will pull up your skirts over your face that your shame may be seen—

Ezekiel 7:18 They will put on sackcloth and be clothed with terror. Every face will be covered with shame, and every head will be shaved.

Matthew 12:41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here. (Because they has covered themselves because they were ashamed and which that is called repentance, to humble yourselves)
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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The Baptizing process in the OT was done by water, but now it is done in the spirit.]
I totally disagree, if I understand you correctly. Yes, NT baptism involves the Spirit, but it is also immersion in water. That is indisputable. Too many scriptures say it, too many early, first century historians write about the believers and their practices. You can't just dismiss water baptism because you don't believe in it.
 
B

Beloved777

Guest
Why would a Christian not want to be?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I totally disagree, if I understand you correctly. Yes, NT baptism involves the Spirit, but it is also immersion in water. That is indisputable. Too many scriptures say it, too many early, first century historians write about the believers and their practices. You can't just dismiss water baptism because you don't believe in it.

You also can not deny that a seperate, spiritual baptism, was also witnessed in the NT..

Of course you would not practice spirit baptism. it is not something men do. it is a work of God. a circumcision done without hands..But that does not mean spirit baptism was not done
.

No one, is or would deny water baptism is not somethign we all should do as Christians. God commanded it, WE SHOULD DO WHAT HE COMMANDS..

But to replace the work of God with the baptism of man? No thank you. thats blasphemy of the worse kind.
 
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Exodus 19:10 And the Lord said to Moses, “Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow. Have them wash their clothes

Isaiah 4:4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.

Luke 3:16 John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

John had went by the old code, he used water to prepare them for the coming of the Lord; it is only because the old covenant was not completed, that it was still in effect at the time. But once Jesus has came to complete all that was required for them to complete, then the old covenant was over and now to start the new. You cannot pour new wine in old wine-skin, you only can put new wine in new wine-skin and which that means that you cannot combine the old covenant with the new or else.. And so Jesus first coming was for the ones that were under the old covenant, the lost sheep of Israel; but He has other sheep that isn't of this flock that He is going to gather them in on His second coming. And so God has already came up with the verdict( judged) and declare that we chosen the way of darkness rather than choosing the ways of the light. And so now we are under the new covenant (grace) that is only done by the way of the spirit. As it says that God look at the heart which mean He only look at the soul, but we look at the outward appearances; and now we must look at the spiritual nature of a person, their intent, but not what they do in the natural, but to look at what their heart is really saying. But if you look at the physical, then that is how God is going to judge that person, under the old covenant.

John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

But John had thought that God was coming to judge the world, but he did not know that He has came to save it. But John knew of His coming, but the pharisees did not know what time it was, because they didn't stay up watching like John.

Matthew 16:3 and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.


Consecrate means Baptize-


[h=2]con·se·crate[/h] (kŏn′sĭ-krāt′)tr.v. con·se·crat·ed, con·se·crat·ing, con·se·crates1. To declare or set apart as sacred: consecrate a church.
2. Christianitya. To sanctify (bread and wine) for Eucharistic use through a ritual regarded by some Christian churches aseffecting transubstantiation.
b. To initiate (a priest) into the order of bishops.

3. To dedicate solemnly to a service or goal. See Synonyms at devote.
4. To make venerable; hallow:



[h=2]sanc·ti·fy[/h] (săngk′tə-fī′)tr.v. sanc·ti·fied, sanc·ti·fy·ing, sanc·ti·fies1. To set apart for sacred use; consecrate: The preacher sanctified the ground as a cemetery.
2. To make holy; purify: They felt the spirit had descended and sanctified their hearts. They sanctified the body withholy oil.
3. To give religious sanction to, as with an oath or vow: The wedding ceremony sanctifies the marriage.
4. To give social or moral sanction to: "

[h=2]pu·ri·fy[/h] (pyo͝or′ə-fī′)tr.v. pu·ri·fied, pu·ri·fy·ing, pu·ri·fies1. To rid of impurities: purify water.
2. To rid of foreign or objectionable elements: tried to purify the party of its dissenters.
3. To free from moral or spiritual defilement: rituals to purify the soul.




 
K

KennethC

Guest
Again.... semantics. Cart/horse.... chicken/egg.... Just do it. You have the rest of your spiritual life to think/study about it, to decide just how many angels can dance on that pinhead. I'm not trying to be flip, but good grief, over analyzing things should be a mortal sin... lol
I have studied it in depth from the OT and the NT, but we still have one on here who wants to continue to reverse the order given in the Word of God to make it fit their doctrine.

From Jesus to Peter to now the order has never changed.

Also I clearly showed to verses from Peter that conversion is not repentance, Peter took and showed the baptizing is when one is converted.

Go back and read in Matthew 28:19-20 what Jesus said makes one a disciple......by.......Baptism !!!

All scripture must align and scripture has to interpret scripture, they can not be used to stand alone nor can one just go and willy nilly force words or understanding that doesn't belong when other scripture clearly define what is being said there in that one !!!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I have studied it in depth from the OT and the NT, but we still have one on here who wants to continue to reverse the order given in the Word of God to make it fit their doctrine.

From Jesus to Peter to now the order has never changed.

Also I clearly showed to verses from Peter that conversion is not repentance, Peter took and showed the baptizing is when one is converted.

Go back and read in Matthew 28:19-20 what Jesus said makes one a disciple......by.......Baptism !!!

All scripture must align and scripture has to interpret scripture, they can not be used to stand alone nor can one just go and willy nilly force words or understanding that doesn't belong when other scripture clearly define what is being said there in that one !!!
Jesus, the same yesterday today and tomorrow.

The gospel (way to heaven) has never changed, it has always been the same, He did not add water baptism in the new covenant.. as a means to salvation, Or else. no one in the OT was saved..


Replacing the work of God (baptism of the spirit) with the work of man (baptism in water) is blasphemy, Jesus warned the pharisee when they tried to attribute the work of God (HS) to satan.. You shoulld be warned.. That sin will never be forgiven.