BASIS FOR PURGATORY IN THE BIBLE

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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If you doubt that the Catholic Church is the True Christian Church, then you must acknowledge that either Coptic or Orthodox Church is the true Christian Church.

Because if you believe that the First Century Christian Church never destroyed and it continues, then only the Catholic Church, Orthodox or Coptic Church fits the criteria because their origins can be traced way back First Century A.D. just only choose if you are dubious about the authenticity of the Catholic Church.

It is impossible that Protestant Church is the true Christian Church because:

1. Its existence cannot be traced back from 1st Century A.D.

2. It has lots of churches. Apostle Paul said that the real Christian Church is one body and not many bodies.

3. It also teaches Sola Fide and its against the Christian teachings in the Bible:

1st Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

What is love in the Bible aside from what Paul presented in First Corinthians Chapter 13?

Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Your analysis is not valid.

The bible give a guide that liar is not true Christian.

Your religion is liar and killer. True Christian or not judge by the teaching or doctrine. How you religion Lie and say catholic teaching is inline with the teaching of Jesus?

When Jesus teach about purgatory? Show me.

WHEN Jesus teach to pray to Mary show me

When Jesus teach indulgence

When Jesus teach to kill in the inquisition? Tell me the verse.

To say catholic traced from first century is another lie

Show me from the binle that Peter is the first bishop in Rome? Another catholic Lie.





And more Lie teaching.
 

jameen

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2018
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There's nothing in the Bible about a place called purgatory, so we can't present any Bible verses which deal with this subject because it doesn't exist.

The Gospel only speaks about eternal paradise and eternal torment in hell, it simply states that all of those chosen by God for salvation will repent and believe and all of those not chosen by God for salvation will reject the Gospel and not believe it.
Based on the responses I read here, I now believe there is no purgatory.

it is clear that after death is judgment in Hebrews 9:27.

no stop over for souls.

you will be resurrected for eternal life or eternal damnation as Jesus mentioned in John Chapter 5.

Even our arch rival Orthodox Church never believes in purgatory.

I am starting to believe that purgatory is a scam created in order to get more money from parishioners.

you cannot pay God in order to save a man's soul. either in hell or purgatory.

Proverbs 6:35 He will accept no recompense, Nor will he be appeased though you give many gifts.

I believe if you sin unintentionally, God will forgive you even you died with it.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,883
992
113
Based on the responses I read here, I now believe there is no purgatory.

it is clear that after death is judgment in Hebrews 9:27.

no stop over for souls.

you will be resurrected for eternal life or eternal damnation as Jesus mentioned in John Chapter 5.

Even our arch rival Orthodox Church never believes in purgatory.

I am starting to believe that purgatory is a scam created in order to get more money from parishioners.

you cannot pay God in order to save a man's soul. either in hell or purgatory.

Proverbs 6:35 He will accept no recompense, Nor will he be appeased though you give many gifts.

I believe if you sin unintentionally, God will forgive you even you died with it.

Good respon, I like your statement, unintend sin Will forgiven AS long AS we believe in Jesus.

Sin is not only what we can see, for Example we may not have a sex with other woman, If we look a woman with lust we commit adultery, so Jesus judge our intention.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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Based on the responses I read here, I now believe there is no purgatory.

it is clear that after death is judgment in Hebrews 9:27.

no stop over for souls.

you will be resurrected for eternal life or eternal damnation as Jesus mentioned in John Chapter 5.

Even our arch rival Orthodox Church never believes in purgatory.

I am starting to believe that purgatory is a scam created in order to get more money from parishioners.

you cannot pay God in order to save a man's soul. either in hell or purgatory.

Proverbs 6:35 He will accept no recompense, Nor will he be appeased though you give many gifts.

I believe if you sin unintentionally, God will forgive you even you died with it.
May the Lord bless you with His Truth in all matters, our battle in life is against the powers of darkness who are trying to deceive Gods people. The dark powers have influenced the highest authorities in the world, just as the Bible said they would.

The Bible says, "let every man be a liar and let God be true". Whenever men make claims against gods Word, we should always believe God's Word. Satan is attacking the Truth, his main weapon is deception. If he can get people away from believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then he has succeeded.

Satan is happy for you to believe anything except for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, because there is no salvation outside of the Gospel.

I will pray that the Lord grants you the wisdom, to bring you to saving faith in His Son and grant you eternal life in paradise.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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If you doubt that the Catholic Church is the True Christian Church, then you must acknowledge that either Coptic or Orthodox Church is the true Christian Church.

Because if you believe that the First Century Christian Church never destroyed and it continues, then only the Catholic Church, Orthodox or Coptic Church fits the criteria because their origins can be traced way back First Century A.D. just only choose if you are dubious about the authenticity of the Catholic Church.
There are many sects as denomination that are no longer here. The first sect or denomination listed of this side of the cross is the way or the Nazrene sect listed in Acts. On the old testestment side many.

The Catholic sect is not listed in the scriptures . other ones listed include the Nicolaitanes, Smyrnaians. the sect in Pergamos , the sect in Sardis, the Philadelphians to mention some . God who is the father of many nations as denominations designed more that one sect so that men who have different views do not kill each other as if we did wrestles against flesh and blood. No such thing as non denominational.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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My question is this, can anyone else see the errors in logic? There are as many interpretations as there are posters. How can the Word of God, discerned by those who are continually seeking Him be so contrary in understanding? The bigger problem isn’t figuring out whether or not purgatory is a fabrication. The problem is that we are all reading the same “living Word”, the same passages, supposedly interpreted by the Holy Spirit quickened with our soul and barely find agreement on any matter, much less this one. Yet, everything seems clear to each and everyone of us as if it were The Almighty Himself who whispered it into our ear.

It should be obvious that some us may be right, some of us may be wrong or...we are all wrong. Admittedly I enjoy sharing my “wisdom” as much as the other person, but it has occurred to me that nobody cares. I suspect that most people are here only to validate their beliefs by soliciting likemindedness in the forums. But, what’s the point? At the end of more wasted time, we all leave with exactly the same views we came with, perhaps cementing a pseudo truth further into our belief system. Since we all hold a different interpretation of truth, whose truth will set us free? Don’t say “the truth of the gospel” because most find little to agree on.

There are many people on this site with beliefs that will jeopardize salvation and still they argue, believing what makes them happy, opposed to what the text actually states. If any of us truly wants to have understanding and discernment they need to enter these forums like children. Children are curious and love to learn. They have no opinion yet, they just file information. The brain is fantastic at sorting out crap. These are my thoughts as I scroll down another thread of conjecture and invented theology. Be blessed, may real Truth find you all, because it’s hard to find it looking here.
I'm just playing catch-up here, but this one caught my eye. Yes the human condition. We all read the same Bible and pray thru the same Spirit to the same God - and yet we all come up with wildly different answers and interpretations. And what's worse, we hold our opinions like a Marine holds a hill. Right, wrong, come hell or high water we're all here to teach and not to learn. Most of us at least. Truth is available only to those who are willing to question what they think they know. Yet most everyone here seems to unquestionably know everything. Which yes leads to a lot of wasted time and energy. And yes I stand with that group all too often.

I think in the end we are probably all wrong and probably all right. We try to fit an infinite God into the finite space/time constraints we live under. It's like trying to compress a hand full of mud - the goop's going to escape between your fingers. And so while we see the goop going here there and everywhere, we have to remember it's all the same goop. We have to stop taking a situation where verse 1 says A and verse 2 says not A, and playing the two against each other. I don't know how God can say one thing to me, while while saying a completely different thing to someone else. In my finite mind it has to be one way or the other. But according to God they are both true. So I have to be careful not to swing my sword at my brother, because even tho he disagrees with my earthly mind, he has just as much of the infinite truth as I do.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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I'm just playing catch-up here, but this one caught my eye. Yes the human condition. We all read the same Bible and pray thru the same Spirit to the same God - and yet we all come up with wildly different answers and interpretations. And what's worse, we hold our opinions like a Marine holds a hill. Right, wrong, come hell or high water we're all here to teach and not to learn. Most of us at least. Truth is available only to those who are willing to question what they think they know. Yet most everyone here seems to unquestionably know everything. Which yes leads to a lot of wasted time and energy. And yes I stand with that group all too often.

I think in the end we are probably all wrong and probably all right. We try to fit an infinite God into the finite space/time constraints we live under. It's like trying to compress a hand full of mud - the goop's going to escape between your fingers. And so while we see the goop going here there and everywhere, we have to remember it's all the same goop. We have to stop taking a situation where verse 1 says A and verse 2 says not A, and playing the two against each other. I don't know how God can say one thing to me, while while saying a completely different thing to someone else. In my finite mind it has to be one way or the other. But according to God they are both true. So I have to be careful not to swing my sword at my brother, because even tho he disagrees with my earthly mind, he has just as much of the infinite truth as I do.
I think this is a good post except for the last two sentences, which I highlighted. Contradictory things cannot both be true. Either dead people are alive, or they're not. Either the end result of the unsaved will be fiery torments forever, or it will be annihilation. Either God determined whom He will save (Calvinism) or man has the ability to choose to believe. Either prophesy, knowledge, and tongues have ceased, or they haven't.

If a view is true, a view that contradicts it cannot be true.

Also:
I don't know how God can say one thing to me, while while saying a completely different thing to someone else.

He's not. If people hold contradictory viewpoints, even though both of them claim to have received their beliefs from the Holy Spirit, at least one of them is wrong.
 

jameen

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2018
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There are many sects as denomination that are no longer here. The first sect or denomination listed of this side of the cross is the way or the Nazrene sect listed in Acts. On the old testestment side many.

The Catholic sect is not listed in the scriptures . other ones listed include the Nicolaitanes, Smyrnaians. the sect in Pergamos , the sect in Sardis, the Philadelphians to mention some . God who is the father of many nations as denominations designed more that one sect so that men who have different views do not kill each other as if we did wrestles against flesh and blood. No such thing as non denominational.
The Nazarene sect is the sect of the early Christians in the Bible. it could be the Catholic Church, Coptic Church, Ethiopian Church or Orthodox Church.

It is clear that in the Bible that Christians belong to one body the Church as mentioned in Ephesians 4:5 and not many bodies like the Protestant, Born Again and Baptist Churches.

The true Church of the Christians has origins from first century A.D. and only Catholic Church, Coptic Church, Ethiopian Church or Orthodox Church fit the criteria.

Just investigate, decide and choose which of the churches I mentioned above is the real God's Church of the Christians.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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The Nazarene sect is the sect of the early Christians in the Bible. it could be the Catholic Church, Coptic Church, Ethiopian Church or Orthodox Church.

It is clear that in the Bible that Christians belong to one body the Church as mentioned in Ephesians 4:5 and not many bodies like the Protestant, Born Again and Baptist Churches.

The true Church of the Christians has origins from first century A.D. and only Catholic Church, Coptic Church, Ethiopian Church or Orthodox Church fit the criteria.

Just investigate, decide and choose which of the churches I mentioned above is the real God's Church of the Christians.
No such criteria.We walk by the unseen eternal things of God not that seen of men, the temporal .

We are informed by the Holy Spirit not seen of the wiles of the devil of men that insist we must be taught by men seen and seek the approval of that seen, rather that the approval of the Holy Spirit, not seen .Destroying the faith principle

The word sect denotes denomination .No such thing as non-denominational, which is simply a honorable title but builds a false hope or false zeal for knowing God not seen .

Many denominations to include the Catholics claim that which is false. Catholisicm, clearly presents the best example

God is the father of many or a multitude of nations typified by the word Abraham(the invisible Bosom or presence of God). From where we get the word denomination. Because the kingdom of God not seen is not of this corrupted creation he has designed denominations as a safeguard so that when men or woman who do not walk by faith, the unseen, will not kill each other as those who walk by sight .Killing the misperceived competition as in out of sight out of mind. The foundation of all the Pagan religions of the world.

Catholicism clearly has copied the "law of the fathers" (venerable or worshipable ones ) by using the phrase "apostolic sucession" in order to make the word of God without effect. Having it in respect to the Pharisees with Sadducees .Two denominations that have put aside their obvious differences like that of Roman Catholicism with Eastern Orthodox Church who follow the exact pattern of the father of lies .

Saul before he was born again having passed from eternal damnation to new spirt life which will be raised and given a new incorruptible body.

Born again is a derogatory phrase to those who walk by sight seeing they do despite to the grace of God, teaching only Mary making her the queen of heaven as the same queen of heaven the apostate Jew sought after ,saying she alone has received the fulness of Christ's grace . While the rest of Christianity receive as remnant of his grace and they must work here suffering , and after in a place called purgatory for a unknow amount of time, or severity of suffering after they are dead.

The Holy Spirt paonts a perfect picture of those who follow a ala of the fathers along with their false zeal of God rather seeking the approval of men seen.

Both the first century refomation, as the time of Acts and the fifteenth century reformation reveal the error of those who walk by sight killing the misperceived competition as in out of sight out of mind (Natural unconverted man )

I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.Acts 22:3

Being reformed by as it is written , all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura ) the true enemy of Catholicism

Again the "law of the fathers"(multiple) is not the same law of our Holy Father(one) in heaven not seen. Catholicism turning things upside down again reject the law that states... we are to call no man on earth father for one is our Holy Father in heaven, by saying well we call our earthly fathers, father, dismissing the spiritual understanding by the oral tradition of their fathers that Christ called a brood of vipers.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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992
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The Nazarene sect is the sect of the early Christians in the Bible. it could be the Catholic Church, Coptic Church, Ethiopian Church or Orthodox Church.

It is clear that in the Bible that Christians belong to one body the Church as mentioned in Ephesians 4:5 and not many bodies like the Protestant, Born Again and Baptist Churches.

The true Church of the Christians has origins from first century A.D. and only Catholic Church, Coptic Church, Ethiopian Church or Orthodox Church fit the criteria.

Just investigate, decide and choose which of the churches I mentioned above is the real God's Church of the Christians.
A protestan church, may start with Lutheran, I say may, but is lutheran now exactly same with lutheran 500 years ago?

The question is: is catholic doctrine same with first church doctrine?

Catholic doctrine is satanic and Lie, why keep worry about history where the church origine. If the doctrine not inline with the document of origine doctrine, than we know It is satanic.



Catholic say peter is the first pope in rome

Read act 28. When Paul come to the city of Rome, Paul call the Jews to talk to them If they heard about Jesus. And they answer they not so sure, verse 22 say but we desire to hear. Indicate peter not there.

Catholic say peter there sin e AD 37. Paul there about AD 61 ( base oN jews history)

If peter there for 24 years why jews not sure about this sect?

Why Peter not welcome Paul there?

Read the entire act, every time apostle come to a city, the Christian always come to welcome him.

I hope you use simple Logic and not just trust what catholic say.


Act 28
22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.
23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
 

jameen

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2018
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No need for purgatory. my non Catholic brethren are right!

I recently found these verses!

1 John 3 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Command to Love

3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

3:3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,883
992
113
No need for purgatory. my non Catholic brethren are right!

I recently found these verses!

1 John 3 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Command to Love

3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

3:3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,883
992
113
No need for purgatory. my non Catholic brethren are right!

I recently found these verses!

1 John 3 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Command to Love

3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

3:3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
Good, you use Bible as a standard. Prove that catholic doctrine is lie.

Catholic say need purgatory.

The verse that you quote above say hope in Jesus purifies.

We have 2 different teaching, one of them must be lie, if you chose to believe catholic, mean you accuse Bible lie

I am glad you chose to say catholic lie.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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No need for purgatory. my non Catholic brethren are right!

I recently found these verses!

1 John 3 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Command to Love

3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

3:3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
It's good to hear from you, you're an inspiration and encouragement to us. You come across as a genuine man of God, I prayed that God would grant you much wisdom and just reading this confirms that God has indeed blessed you with wisdom.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,883
992
113
It's good to hear from you, you're an inspiration and encouragement to us. You come across as a genuine man of God, I prayed that God would grant you much wisdom and just reading this confirms that God has indeed blessed you with wisdom.
Thanks my brother, by quoting that verse, I believe Holy Spirit is in you. I am not aware that there is such verse before. It is surprise a person with catholic beground quote that verse and interprate accurately. To me it is miracle.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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Thanks my brother, by quoting that verse, I believe Holy Spirit is in you. I am not aware that there is such verse before. It is surprise a person with catholic beground quote that verse and interprate accurately. To me it is miracle.
I did pray for him, because he said he was looking for the truth. Now God has shown him the truth so I trust he will learn a lot about scripture very quickly.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I did pray for him, because he said he was looking for the truth. Now God has shown him the truth so I trust he will learn a lot about scripture very quickly.
Indeed it surprise me, the verse he quote is imply there is no need purgatory. Usually people not see what is imply. If it state clearly every body able to see. But it is imply, I may read that verse 10 time or more but I am not aware, that verse also mean we do not need purgatory till our brother Jameen mention it.

Thanks for your pray for Jameen, keep pray brother.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Catholic say peter is the first pope in rome.
Fruitless argument.

The temporal things of men seen (waliking by sight) as if the kingdom of God comes by observation have nothing to do with the eternal things of God not seen(walking by faith) .They stand opposed to one another . The things of men offend those of God

The idea of a Pope or what scripture identifies as a daysman, a fleshly mediator that stands between God and man as a infallible umpire is refuted by the scriptures. In the end it put a face on the father of lies, Satan. Just as he took the form of a serpent in the Garden of Eden

Catholicism as well as corrupt Judisim, is founded on necromancy.
 

MadHermit

Junior Member
May 8, 2018
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The expression "saved so as by fire" in 1 Cor 3:12 is applied in ancient rabbinic Judaism to Jews of mediocre spirituality wh oare consigned for a year to Gehenna for purgation before they can ascend to Heaven.

Paul's approval of the Corinthian practive of proxy baptism for the unrighteous dead is another example of the NT church's belief in the possibility of postmortem conversion and redemption, despite Hebrews 9:27. For Paul this proxy baptism is part of the process by which God ultimately becomes "all in all," or "everything to everyone:"
"
…"that God may be all in all. Otherwise, what will those people do who receive baptism in behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf (1 Corinthians 15:28-29)?"
 

MadHermit

Junior Member
May 8, 2018
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I might add 2 other points Catholics can make to ground their doctrine of Purgatory in Scripture/ (
(1) In a parable Jesus uses the image of a debtor's prison as an allusion to Gehenna: "In anger his Lord handed him over to be tortured until he would pay all his debt (Matthew 18:34)." The implication is that the debt can theoretically be paid to secure release.

(2) Catholics refer to 2 Maccabees in their OT for the initial principle that justifies the concept of Purgatory. It was discovered that Jewish freedom fighters had committed idolatry and it was thought that their deaths in battle were a punishment for this sin. The righteous Jewish soldiers believed in praying for the dead. So they sent a sin offering to the Jerusalem Temple and prayed for these dead soldiers "that the sin that had been committed would be wholly blotted out. 12:42, 44)." In this way, they attest the belief that prayer and godly ritual can change the status of dead sinners in the eyes of God.​


#3 Deadworm, Jul 12, 2018