Be honest with me, am I going to hell forever or not?

Angela53510 · Oct 1, 2022

Wise words! Jordan Peterson is not a Christian, although he has conservative and traditional values. I liked him a lot. Then he posted this ridiculous article on FB about Cain and Abel. He allegorized it, turned it into something completely unbiblical. It was so easy to see Peterson knew nothing of the Bible, nothing about hermeneutics or Bible Interpretation, or context in the Bible.

It was like a great and learned man decided to reinterpret the Bible without ever have read or studying the Bible, and ended up sounding like an arrogant fool. Plus, he certainly had no Holy Spirit leading and guiding him, because he doesn't believe in the Trinity. A real disaster was the result.

For the OP there are many much better people to read about. Try "Knowing God" by JI Packer. He really explains who God is, and his attributes. Dallas Willard has excellent books about how to follow Christ. You need to understand the gospel. If you are worried about what God thinks, that you can NOT have committed the unpardonable sin!

Just agreeing with presidente!

Angela53510 · Oct 1, 2022

@ Daniel
"Read your Bible daily! Learn what the Bible says, instead of intrusive thoughts whispering in your ear. That is experiential, not based on what the Bible actually says.

Get people to pray for you, and see a psychiatrist to see how much of what you are troubled by is your brain malfunctioning, and how much is the devil, or bad theology! You can get over this, you are not going to hell for blasphemy!!
Here's a short passage God told me to
Memorize and meditate on."

Just checking up to see how you are progressing. I wrote that passage in a long post #46 on Sept 6, 2022. It was, I hope, clear instructions on how to follow God.

1. Have you read your Bible daily? That is where to learn about God, the gospel, as well as how to live for God. If you don't read, then you will remain ignorant of God's instructions!!

2. How many Bible verses have you memorized? Do you mediate on them daily? Ask God to give you special verses that address your situation! But to find those verses, you need to read the Bible. One of the first verses God gave me, when I was also worried I had lost, or might lose my salvation!

"And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose," Roman's 8:28 NET

Next was a great assurance that God finishes what he starts! and that means us! He works on us to sanctify and make us whole our whole lives.

"being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completionuntil the day of Christ Jesus." Philippians 1:6

3. Have you set up an appointment to see a Christian counsellor, and a Psychiatrist? If not, how can you change, and get rid of this OCD called scrupulosity?!

Here's a definition and symptoms of this disease!:

"Scrupulosity is a subtype of obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) involving religious or moral obsessions. Scrupulous individuals are overly concerned that something they thought or did might be a sin or other violation of religious or moral doctrine. They may worry about what their thoughts or behavior mean about who they are as a person.
What are the symptoms of scrupulosity?
Common obsessions seen in scrupulosity include excessive concerns about:
Fear of committing blasphemy, or offending/angering God

Fear of having committed a sin
Behaving overly morally
Excessively striving for purity
Fear of going to hell or being punished by God
Fear of being possessed
Fear of death
Fear of the loss of impulse control
Doubting what you truly believe or feel
Needing to acquire certainty about religious beliefs

Along with excessive worry about religious and moral issues, scrupulosity sufferers engage in mental and/or behavioral compulsions and avoidance of triggering situations."

Here is a link which includes the above!
https://iocdf.org/faith-ocd/what-is-ocd-scrupulosity/

I'm sorry, but this definition reads like everything you wrote on this thread. You could check almost every box!

So, please stop ruminating, and follow some practical disciplines like:

1. Read your Bible daily
2. Memorize Bible verses and meditate on them. Preferably encouraging verses!
3. See a psychiatrist and get a diagnosis, take meds to be rid of the obtrusive thoughts. The fact your "break" from God happened when you were 14 makes sense, that's the age, boys in particular start developing a conscience. You were a few years later but well within the time to develop OVD scrupulosity!
"OCD can start at any time from preschool to adulthood. Although OCD does occur at earlier ages, there are generally two age ranges when OCD first appears: Between ages 10 and 12 and between the late teens and early adulthood."

https://www.everydayhealth.com/anxi...tarts between 18 and 25 but can begin anytime.

Finally, begin prayer again. Don't ask God for anything. Tell God your heart, but mostly praise and worship Him. Prayer is about God. To many people think prayer is about a grocery list of problems that you deliver to God, as rapidly as you can.

I challenge you to do these things, and start today! God is waiting to welcome you back to the fold, like a lost sheep.

presidente · Oct 1, 2022

Angela53510 said:

Jordan Peterson is a Jungian psychologist. Carl Jung was one of Sigmund Freud's associates. Neither one of these men are men to turn to about faith or the nature of the spiritual world. Jung had naturalistic explanations. He considered the Devil in past times to be the same thing he called neurosis. Apparently from what I have seen from Peterson, his interpretations of faith, Biblical stories, and also myths and stories of ancient civilizations, is that they convey cultural and psychological concepts. So he'll interpret stories in the Bible as just reflections of psychological concepts, struggles we all face. This is a very non-spiritual perspective. It can confuse people, especially people who irrationally find a smart articular person like Peterson and hang on his every word undiscerningly.

I did see a video where he got choked up talking about Christ. He may be struggling about the issue of real faith. He is someone we can pray for.

Daniel1910 · Oct 1, 2022

Angela53510 said:

@ Daniel
"Read your Bible daily! Learn what the Bible says, instead of intrusive thoughts whispering in your ear. That is experiential, not based on what the Bible actually says.

Get people to pray for you, and see a psychiatrist to see how much of what you are troubled by is your brain malfunctioning, and how much is the devil, or bad theology! You can get over this, you are not going to hell for blasphemy!!
Here's a short passage God told me to
Memorize and meditate on."

Just checking up to see how you are progressing. I wrote that passage in a long post #46 on Sept 6, 2022. It was, I hope, clear instructions on how to follow God.

1. Have you read your Bible daily? That is where to learn about God, the gospel, as well as how to live for God. If you don't read, then you will remain ignorant of God's instructions!!

2. How many Bible verses have you memorized? Do you mediate on them daily? Ask God to give you special verses that address your situation! But to find those verses, you need to read the Bible. One of the first verses God gave me, when I was also worried I had lost, or might lose my salvation!

"And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose," Roman's 8:28 NET

Next was a great assurance that God finishes what he starts! and that means us! He works on us to sanctify and make us whole our whole lives.

"being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completionuntil the day of Christ Jesus." Philippians 1:6

3. Have you set up an appointment to see a Christian counsellor, and a Psychiatrist? If not, how can you change, and get rid of this OCD called scrupulosity?!

Here's a definition and symptoms of this disease!:

"Scrupulosity is a subtype of obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) involving religious or moral obsessions. Scrupulous individuals are overly concerned that something they thought or did might be a sin or other violation of religious or moral doctrine. They may worry about what their thoughts or behavior mean about who they are as a person.
What are the symptoms of scrupulosity?
Common obsessions seen in scrupulosity include excessive concerns about:
Fear of committing blasphemy, or offending/angering God

Fear of having committed a sin
Behaving overly morally
Excessively striving for purity
Fear of going to hell or being punished by God
Fear of being possessed
Fear of death
Fear of the loss of impulse control
Doubting what you truly believe or feel
Needing to acquire certainty about religious beliefs

Along with excessive worry about religious and moral issues, scrupulosity sufferers engage in mental and/or behavioral compulsions and avoidance of triggering situations."

Here is a link which includes the above!
https://iocdf.org/faith-ocd/what-is-ocd-scrupulosity/

I'm sorry, but this definition reads like everything you wrote on this thread. You could check almost every box!

So, please stop ruminating, and follow some practical disciplines like:

1. Read your Bible daily
2. Memorize Bible verses and meditate on them. Preferably encouraging verses!
3. See a psychiatrist and get a diagnosis, take meds to be rid of the obtrusive thoughts. The fact your "break" from God happened when you were 14 makes sense, that's the age, boys in particular start developing a conscience. You were a few years later but well within the time to develop OVD scrupulosity!
"OCD can start at any time from preschool to adulthood. Although OCD does occur at earlier ages, there are generally two age ranges when OCD first appears: Between ages 10 and 12 and between the late teens and early adulthood."

https://www.everydayhealth.com/anxiety-disorders/experts-what-age-does-ocd-begin.aspx#:~:text=OCD can start at any time from preschool to adulthood,late teens and early adulthood.&text=It typically starts between 18 and 25 but can begin anytime.

Finally, begin prayer again. Don't ask God for anything. Tell God your heart, but mostly praise and worship Him. Prayer is about God. To many people think prayer is about a grocery list of problems that you deliver to God, as rapidly as you can.

I challenge you to do these things, and start today! God is waiting to welcome you back to the fold, like a lost sheep.

No, I don't have OCD. What happened at age 14 was actually my doubts and beliefs at the time after seeing what the Pharisees said about Jesus Christ and I felt so stupid because I am. I didn't want to do that or believe those thoughts and everyday I feel bitter about this. I hate feeling like this.

presidente · Oct 1, 2022

Daniel1910 said:

Jesus did not say someone who believes blasphemous thoughts about Him could not be forgiven. He said that about the one who would speak a word against the Holy Spirit. Thinking and speaking aren't the same thing.

Some preachers say this, but it isn't true-- thinking it and speaking it are not the same. They probably get that about the verse that he who looks on a woman in order to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. But the issue here isn't just 'thinking it.' The one who does this is coveting. The 10 commandments say not to covet your neighbor's wife, etc.

If someone says, "Sally Sue has sex" and you heard and understood it, you just thought about Sally Sue having sex. That doesn't mean you coveted her.

And committing adultery in one's heart and committing adultery with one's body are not the same. The one who does it physically sinned twice (in most if not all cases) because he coveted and sinned in his heart and he went on to sin with his body. Even in this case, it is not exactly the same. It is worse to do both. The one who commits adultery, literally and physically, sins against his own body also. He defiles his neighbor's wife. There was a death penalty for this sin in the Old Testament. The one who looks with covetousness on his neighbor's wife, has sinned against the Lord. But the Old Testament does not say that the one who has coveted had to be stoned to death. And it probably will not destroy someone else's family like the first sin would.

There are cases where 'thinking it' is not even a sin. Like if someone says so and so has sex, so you heard it, so you just thought about so-and-so having sex. That doesn't mean you sinned by hearing that and understanding the words. If someone curses (in the Biblical sense), you understood it, so you just thought it. That does not mean that you sinned by hearing it.

Daniel1910 · Oct 1, 2022

presidente said:

Jesus did not say someone who believes blasphemous thoughts about Him could not be forgiven. He said that about the one who would speak a word against the Holy Spirit. Thinking and speaking aren't the same thing.

Some preachers say this, but it isn't true-- thinking it and speaking it are not the same. They probably get that about the verse that he who looks on a woman in order to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. But the issue here isn't just 'thinking it.' The one who does this is coveting. The 10 commandments say not to covet your neighbor's wife, etc.

If someone says, "Sally Sue has sex" and you heard and understood it, you just thought about Sally Sue having sex. That doesn't mean you coveted her.

And committing adultery in one's heart and committing adultery with one's body are not the same. The one who does it physically sinned twice (in most if not all cases) because he coveted and sinned in his heart and he went on to sin with his body. Even in this case, it is not exactly the same. It is worse to do both. The one who commits adultery, literally and physically, sins against his own body also. He defiles his neighbor's wife. There was a death penalty for this sin in the Old Testament. The one who looks with covetousness on his neighbor's wife, has sinned against the Lord. But the Old Testament does not say that the one who has coveted had to be stoned to death. And it probably will not destroy someone else's family like the first sin would.

There are cases where 'thinking it' is not even a sin. Like if someone says so and so has sex, so you heard it, so you just thought about so-and-so having sex. That doesn't mean you sinned by hearing that and understanding the words. If someone curses (in the Biblical sense), you understood it, so you just thought it. That does not mean that you sinned by hearing it.

Well, yes I understand what you are saying and I try to rebuke those thoughts from my head and I think that it was for a while at the time. I don't believe it anymore and I never meant to. Seriously, I feel like a fool. I have seen so many testimonies of people who suffered and felt so far from God but nobody came close to my situation.

Angela53510 · Oct 2, 2022

Daniel1910 said:

You obviously did not read the part of my post where I listed the symptoms of scrupulosity. You have every one of the symptoms. You will never get better without a doctor's help. In addition, you were the right age, 14, to get this mental illness.

I'm done with you. You want help, but you have rejected the suggestions every every single Christian who has tried to help you. And they can continue banging their heads, and I pray I am wrong. So, look at the comments and ideas everyone has brought. It's so immature to reject the counsel of some many wise and mature people. But, no more pearls before swine for me. You did not even read my post. which is your right. Bye! I'm outta here!

Pray_without_ceasing · Oct 2, 2022

Daniel1910 said:

Greetings, Daniel. Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God has said that he was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but he obtained mercy, because he did it ignorantly in unbelief. And you can obtain mercy too if you would come to Jesus Christ. Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. The Lord said, he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And Paul said that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Here is the Gospel of the grace of God: Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Funkus · Oct 3, 2022

Daniel it's ultimately up to God, and no-one knows or can presume what God is going to think beyond a certain point
That 'certain point' is well informed guesses but still not certainty. You do not know that God rejects you, because of the sovereignty He has (sovereign grace is an interesting concept also)
Therefor the logical course of action is to detect whether you can still experience God's presence. For example, in worship, by going to somewhere holy like a cathedral and spend some time there, or any other way you can think of
If you even get the smallest crumb of God's presence you have your answer, because I don't think God would give you that if you were rejected since it would make no sense, why give you something now if you will one day never have it for eternity?
Thus, seek his presence and you will get your answer
If God wants you there's nothing you can do about it, remember also Jesus was accused of blasphemy but He knew he was accepted by God. Remember also the apostle who almost certainly would have spoken against the Holy Spirit prior to his conversion (at the stoning of Stephen the spirit in Him gave him a vision and they did more than speak against it, they stoned him)
In sum, if anything is holding you back it's the enemy using this against you but you can find out what God thinks via his presence

Daniel1910 · Oct 4, 2022

Funkus said:

Daniel it's ultimately up to God, and no-one knows or can presume what God is going to think beyond a certain point
That 'certain point' is well informed guesses but still not certainty. You do not know that God rejects you, because of the sovereignty He has (sovereign grace is an interesting concept also)
Therefor the logical course of action is to detect whether you can still experience God's presence. For example, in worship, by going to somewhere holy like a cathedral and spend some time there, or any other way you can think of
If you even get the smallest crumb of God's presence you have your answer, because I don't think God would give you that if you were rejected since it would make no sense, why give you something now if you will one day never have it for eternity?
Thus, seek his presence and you will get your answer
If God wants you there's nothing you can do about it, remember also Jesus was accused of blasphemy but He knew he was accepted by God. Remember also the apostle who almost certainly would have spoken against the Holy Spirit prior to his conversion (at the stoning of Stephen the spirit in Him gave him a vision and they did more than speak against it, they stoned him)
In sum, if anything is holding you back it's the enemy using this against you but you can find out what God thinks via his presence

I can rarely feel the presence of the Holy Spirit nowadays. It's really rare. Not as strong but most times I actually don't feel it at all.

Mem · Oct 4, 2022

The Pharisees claimed Jesus did miracles by the power of Beelzebub, also called Ba'alzebul in rabbinic tradition as a derogatory mockery of Baal meaning "lord of the flies." The connotation involves the suggestion that Baal is a heap of dung and compares his followers to flies. Beelzebub is the god of Ekron, and it was supposed that he'd send flies, which caused illness, away.
So, the pharisees were mocking Jesus by claiming this, and more likely didn't believe the healings he performed were genuine. This in a sense would've been calling him a liar, which comes vicariously near to blaspheming the Holy Spirit, Who Is the Spirit of Truth.

Funkus · Oct 4, 2022

Daniel1910 said:

aha so you feel a crumb! that's very encouraging. i think if things were as you worried you wouldn't feel, my honest advice would be just to seek this, take some time out doing that and don't think about anything and see where it goes with an open mind not knowing what the outcome will be. i don't think these question can be answered by scripture quests its the holy spirit that answers them. i bet you will be delighted good luck

CherieR · Oct 4, 2022

Daniel1910 said:

I don't think you need to worry about having believed it in the past. Do you believe in Jesus now? I would focus on reading the Scripture and the Gospels. I would focus specifically on the love of God and the compassion of Jesus. I wish you well Daniel.

CherieR · Oct 5, 2022

Daniel1910 said:

I have had a particular blasphemous thought come to my mind years ago as well. I don't think I want to go into too much detail on it . The thought I had seems just as bad as what the Pharisees said about Jesus, maybe even worse.

Honestly I feel like I have failed the Lord on different occasions. There have been times I felt like I was ashamed of Christ. There were times I felt like I ought to have confessed him and did not.

I have questioned before if I truly loved God when I was in Middle School. I have questioned if I truly believed in Jesus and had all the right beliefs.

Once when in High School, I was thinking I was doomed for hell. I had dealt with a lot of anxiety and depression and my fears of going to hell was constant. I don't know how many times I prayed to the Lord to save me. It was a lot.

When I was a young child , I remember I was having a particular bad thought. I don't know why I thought to do this but I said get behind me Satan while looking in the mirror. Honestly I feel like that experience scarred me and brought trauma to me. It may have been a big part in why I struggled so much with assurance of my salvation.

I have messed up in many ways but God has loved me. I have read from the Scriptures and been struck by the love of Christ and brought to tears on various occasions. I still have had times of fear and doubt recently as well. I have been making a practice of putting my trust in God and his love for me in prayer.

I don't believe you are too far gone Daniel. God loves you right were you are and he can help you now. It may take some time. It may seem dark but God is there for you, is for you, is with you and loves you completely.

"Who among you fears the LORD
and obeys the voice of his servant?
Let him who walks in darkness
and has no light
trust in the name of the LORD
and rely on his God."

Isaiah 50:10 ESV

Funkus · Oct 11, 2022

being worried about this sort of thing is what makes us Christians

Scarlett7297 · Oct 11, 2022

Daniel1910 said:

This kind of condemnation is not coming from God , trust me. My sister had the exact same scenario where she without her will kept thinking about it again and again until the thoughts were unstoppable and she believed she was unforgivable before God and 'lost faith' and thus was in a very vulnerable place spiritually!! She started having strange hallucinations after that and was diagnosed with Schizophrenia. What I suggest is this....it seems you have OCD! Get it treated. OCD is having thoughts which you want to control but do not seem to be controlled by you and seem so loathsome that they trigger reactions of disgust or ways to undo it through some reaction or thought. Look , I suggest until you tell this to a psychiatrist, laugh these thoughts off! Do not believe that you are far from God..that is faith. God is a righteous judge....you really think He is looking at you with an angry look on His face right now for those thoughts? Nothing could be farther from the Truth. Jesus loves you regardless of those thoughts. First remember this, the forgiveness and grace of Christ. Remember , Love is above all. (There may be Christians who may point a finger at u, I feel like really facepalming by some responses... I was exactly like that when I was with my sister....like I was trying to save myself by not uttering anything that could make God 'angry'). There are people who say it and mean it. You seem to have good intentions and God looks at that! Just have a deep seated faith in Jesus. He is with you.

Daniel1910 · Oct 11, 2022

Scarlett7297 said:

This kind of condemnation is not coming from God , trust me. My sister had the exact same scenario where she without her will kept thinking about it again and again until the thoughts were unstoppable and she believed she was unforgivable before God and 'lost faith' and thus was in a very vulnerable place spiritually!! She started having strange hallucinations after that and was diagnosed with Schizophrenia. What I suggest is this....it seems you have OCD! Get it treated. OCD is having thoughts which you want to control but do not seem to be controlled by you and seem so loathsome that they trigger reactions of disgust or ways to undo it through some reaction or thought. Look , I suggest until you tell this to a psychiatrist, laugh these thoughts off! Do not believe that you are far from God..that is faith. God is a righteous judge....you really think He is looking at you with an angry look on His face right now for those thoughts? Nothing could be farther from the Truth. Jesus loves you regardless of those thoughts. First remember this, the forgiveness and grace of Christ. Remember , Love is above all. (There may be Christians who may point a finger at u, I feel like really facepalming by some responses... I was exactly like that when I was with my sister....like I was trying to save myself by not uttering anything that could make God 'angry'). There are people who say it and mean it. You seem to have good intentions and God looks at that! Just have a deep seated faith in Jesus. He is with you.

This is hard for me. I don't even have repentance in the heart.

Scarlett7297 · Oct 11, 2022

Daniel1910 said:

God said to have faith. No feelings are required. Trust Jesus. I suggest you watch some humor and don't take anything negative into your mind. Don't be alone. Be cheerful. Be around people , let them make you cheerful and offer comfort. God helps through other people also. Loved ones , friends.

Asterismos · Oct 16, 2022

Daniel1910 said:

Friend. Only Gods Elect can commit the unpardonable sin, read Matthew chapter 10. All sins are forgivable. Just repent sins to God and be forgiven. Stop the guilt trip. Pray to Jesus and Godhead, and repent sins to God. You will have clean start. And stay away from denominations that wont tell you the truth.

Asterismos · Oct 16, 2022

Only Gods elect can commit the unpardonable sin, gospel of Matthew chapter 10. Pray to Jesus and Godhead, and Repent sins to God, be forgiven. Stop the guilt trip. God forgives sins by repentance. If you love and serve God your in fine shape. Psalm chapter 55. The wicked, those hate Christians and God will go to hell. Stop worrying, and repent sins to God and your good to go.

Be honest with me, am I going to hell forever or not?

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