Bearing fruit

[FreeNChrist]

The OP is obviously one who exhorts and prophecies in the sense of communicating and enforcing the revealed truth, the true meaning of Biblical prophecy.

Naw, he's just a plain ole legalist. And I am truly surprised that one who should know better, doesn't.

 

[UnderGrace]

Amen Sister,

Great name by the way!

My only part that I differ with the OP ( to me anyway) is reproving and telling believers that they are still sinners as if Jesus' work is not sufficient.

Of course I do not want to sin, I love Jesus, but I know that I will never be sinless and self-condemnation is not going to make me sinless.

I would agree with OP message more if he also declared very clearly the Good News in Jesus. As someone who was raised Catholic and only knew condemnation and never was told the truth that was in Jesus (only untrue sacraments), I will be honest it truly vexes me!

This thread reminds me of this Scripture:

"Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith;7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching;8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness." Romans 12:6-8

I see so many different gifts in this thread. But I also see people condemning other members of the body of Christ. The OP is obviously one who exhorts and prophecies in the sense of communicating and enforcing the revealed truth, the true meaning of Biblical prophecy. He has a powerful but necessary message. He reminds me of the OT prophets, warning God's people from sin.

And sin God's people had! From Joseph's brothers giving him away to slavery because they were jealous, the Hebrews of the Exodus, including Moses disobeying God, the falling away from God soon after God's people entered the promised land. And thinking about it, it is positively amazing that those people saw miracle after miracle, and still walked away from God and sinned and served other gods.

Then there was David, a man after God's heart, who committed adultery and murder. That was breaking two of the 10 commandments, and breaking God's heart. But God sent Nathan, the prophet, and David repented for his evil.

I'm reading 2 Kings right now. It is just the story of apostasy after apostasy. Of prophet after prophet warning God's people to repent and turn away from their sins! And yet, they didn't listen, and God eventually took both Israel and Judah into captivity, with Israel never returning, and Judah returning, a broken and subservient people who never recovered the glory of God, until Jesus came.

Prophet after prophet warning, and king after king going their own wicked way.

And for anyone who thinks the Old Testament is not about grace, I would urge you to read "The Gospel of Moses" by Dan Block, a world renowned Hebrew scholar. It is amazing how he brings out the grace of God - not just as a foreshadowing of Jesus. God had grace for his people from Abraham through David and all the way to Daniel, and Ezra and Nehemiah.

So let us not condemn the prophet, but instead let us encourage one another with love, and heed the words of one who might say words we don't agree with or even understand. His message may not be for everyone, but I am certain that there are more than a few people that might be sinning, even people who are just reading the posts and not members, and are convicted by this message and turn away from sin and towards God!

"Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing." 1 Thess. 5:11

Are we doing this? Or are we tearing one another down?

 

[Grace777x70]

The word " exhort - exhortation" means "encouragement, comfort" - it does not mean to look for ways to disqualify believers in Christ to separate them from Christ Himself.

Sure, there are warnings for those in Christ that sinning will destroy them, their view of God and their view of others as well as ruin the witness of the life of Christ and His kingdom in this earth.

Most of the warnings are to show what happens to those that are unbelievers. We need to differentiate between the 2 groups when interpreting scripture.

1 Corinthians 14:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.

Here is an example of the same Greek word being used only the translators used the word "comfort" in this instance.

2 Corinthians 1:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] who comforts us in all our affliction so that we will be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

it looks nothing like these self-righteous based-mindset views of the gospel.

There it is again, and from those who always cry slander and malice must stop! LOL Trying to inject a straw man accusation and lie about me being and preaching "self righteousness" and "legalism" is nothing more than lies, false accusations, slander etc. But yet they keep on constantly doing it, as if they repeat the lie enough it will somehow make God's words of no effect.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Naw, he's just a plain ole legalist. And I am truly surprised that one who should know better, doesn't.

There it is again, more false accusations. What spirit do you think that is of?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

To works-based self-righteous preachers

There it is again. Do we see a pattern of false accusations, slander, and lies flooding the thread here or what?

 

[gb9]

There it is again, and from those who always cry slander and malice must stop! LOL Trying to inject a straw man accusation and lie about me being and preaching "self righteousness" and "legalism" is nothing more than lies, false accusations, slander etc. But yet they keep on constantly doing it, as if they repeat the lie enough it will somehow make God's words of no effect.

maybe the same way that telling oneself that " I do not sin" often enough that the person might began to believe it. ( not true of course ).

 

[FreeNChrist]

There it is again, more false accusations. What spirit do you think that is of?

I'm sorry, I thought you knew.

 

[gb9]

There it is again. Do we see a pattern of false accusations, slander, and lies flooding the thread here or what?

no, I see people speaking truth, and ones who think they are sinless getting offended by the truth that no one is sinless.

 

[popeye]

Amen Sister,

Great name by the way!

My only part that I differ with the OP ( to me anyway) is reproving and telling believers that they are still sinners as if Jesus' work is not sufficient.

Of course I do not want to sin, I love Jesus, but I know that I will never be sinless and self-condemnation is not going to make me sinless.

I would agree with OP message more if he also declared very clearly the Good News in Jesus. As someone who was raised Catholic and only knew condemnation and never was told the truth that was in Jesus (only untrue sacraments), I will be honest it truly vexes me!

Yes it is a beautiful name.

 

[UnderGrace]

InSpiritInTruth.

If I understand your theology (so to speak correctly) by the conversation in this thread and others you believe that even though we are saved by grace, you believe salvation can be lost either because of sin, which be evidenced by not bearing fruit or because one just abandons the faith?

Also do you believe we still have to do the works of the law?

I just want to keep it straight so I can understand.

Really for myself I just seek to persuade you of the assurance of salvation because you would see more of God's love in the scripture rather than condemnation. But I do understand self-condemnation it does sadly give a cold comfort, although it is nothing compared to God's love.

I hope you will answer.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Three things. It's the Holy Spirit who does the reproving, not you. Secondly, it's the world He reproves. And thirdly, the sin He reproves the world of is that they do not believe in Jesus Christ. Plucking scripture out if it's context will always end up making you just look foolish. Just sayin'.

The Holy Spirit needs a mouth piece, that is where God's anointed priesthood comes in. God has always sent his servants to warn the wicked of their sinful ways, even those who thought they were already saved. Those who are not of God's Spirit are still of the world, and of the spirit of this world, and the world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth because "it" the spirit of a lie working in them cannot "see" the Truth. So the Truth needs be spoken by those whom God anoints and sends, warning the people to repent of their sinful ways and seek the Lord by faith.

All the prophets, disciples, apostles, and even Jesus called for the people to repent and turn from their sinful ways.

 

[FreeNChrist]

The Holy Spirit needs a mouth piece, that is where God's anointed priesthood comes in. God has always sent his servants to warn the wicked of their sinful ways, even those who thought they were already saved. Those who are not of God's Spirit are still of the world, and of the spirit of this world, and the world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth because "it" the spirit of a lie working in them cannot "see" the Truth. So the Truth needs be spoken by those whom God anoints and sends, warning the people to repent of their sinful ways and seek the Lord by faith.

All the prophets, disciples, apostles, and even Jesus called for the people to repent and turn from their sinful ways.

And you're the Holy Spirit's Guy, you're the anointed one, eh?? Well, I'll be danged.

 

[UnderGrace]

Well I think I understand better now, you are warning believers about their sinful ways.

And the purpose of this is what? So they will not loose their salvation?

The Holy Spirit needs a mouth piece, that is where God's anointed priesthood comes in. God has always sent his servants to warn the wicked of their sinful ways, even those who thought they were already saved. Those who are not of God's Spirit are still of the world, and of the spirit of this world, and the world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth because "it" the spirit of a lie working in them cannot "see" the Truth. So the Truth needs be spoken by those whom God anoints and sends, warning the people to repent of their sinful ways and seek the Lord by faith.

All the prophets, disciples, apostles, and even Jesus called for the people to repent and turn from their sinful ways.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Seems to show that the Holy Spirit as was given them who would be delivered up[FONT=&quot] to their councils, scourging them in their synagogues, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]brought before governors and kings for his sake, and specifically for a testimony against them and the Gentiles would be a manner of reproving them through that same Spirit in and by them[/FONT]

Mat 10:20 [FONT=&quot]For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.[/FONT]

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

I believe Jesus is the anointed one, however Paul also said,

2 Cr 1:21 [FONT=&quot]Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [/FONT]is[FONT=&quot] God;

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 Cr 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.[/FONT]

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

InSpiritInTruth.

If I understand your theology (so to speak correctly) by the conversation in this thread and others you believe that even though we are saved by grace, you believe salvation can be lost either because of sin, which be evidenced by not bearing fruit or because one just abandons the faith?

Also do you believe we still have to do the works of the law?

I just want to keep it straight so I can understand.

Really for myself I just seek to persuade you of the assurance of salvation because you would see more of God's love in the scripture rather than condemnation. But I do understand self-condemnation it does sadly give a cold comfort, although it is nothing compared to God's love.

I hope you will answer.

We are saved by grace through faith, if one departs from the faith they are no longer saved if they do not turn back to the Lord and to righteousness from sin. Jesus was clear about the results of those who did not remain in the faith and abide in Him. The result was they did not bear fruit, and because they did abide in Him they were cut off, withered and died, and then finally cast into the fire. I have given plenty of scriptural support for this in this very thread.

Also, those who born again of the Holy Spirit have the law and testimony of Jesus Christ written on their hearts and minds, this is the promise of the New Covenant. Also I do have the love of God in my heart, as this is only way we can love others as Jesus loved us=New Commandment. But if you saw a blind man walking toward the edge of a cliff fixing to fall to his death, is it love to say nothing at all to warn him of impending destruction? Or is it love to cry out to the blind man, " STOP FROM WHERE YOU ARE O BLIND MAN AND TURN BACK, OR ELSE YOU SHALL FALL UNTO YOUR DEATH!"

Repent, turn, and choose Life, for if you do not turn back from sin to the righteousness in Christ, you shall fall unto your death and die in your sins.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Says similarly

James 5:19-20 [FONT=&quot]Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.[/FONT]

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Well I think I understand better now, you are warning believers about their sinful ways.

And the purpose of this is what? So they will not loose their salvation?

Tell me, do you think these workers of iniquity considered themselves "believers."?

Matthew 7:18-23 "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.[SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Are not those who work iniquity sinners?

 

[Grace777x70]

I believe we have to differentiate between "going to heaven to be with the Lord " salvation and - "being saved from the things that can destroy us here while being on this earth." - in other words salvation here in this present life.

The word "soul" is translated as "life" in a few places which is dealing with this present world. When the angel warned Joseph to move the family because Herod sought Jesus's life ( this is the word for soul in Greek ) Matt.2:20

We can inherit now in this life things that are of the kingdom of God because the kingdom of God is within us...however if we don't have our minds renewed to the truth in Christ ( which includes living by the Spirit within us ) - we can not experience the things of the kingdom that are available to us believers.

Scripture uses the same Greek word - " salvation, saved " = wholeness, preservation, keep safe, deliverance, make well - for both being saved from things in this life and for going to be with the Lord for eternity.

If we don't understand this difference we will continually be mis-applying scriptures that talk about "being saved here in this life from things" and "going to be with the Lord".

There is eternal salvation and there is salvation from temporal things while on this earth. Confuse the two and you end up with a mixed up message of self-effort for going to heaven and only the blood of Jesus does that.

Jesus is either your Savior for going to be in heaven with Him or you are your own savior by helping Him. One is by grace through faith - the other is works-righteousness.