BEFORE THE CROSS/AFTER THE CROSS

[PeterJens]

Before the cross - the love to mankind was embodied in the nation of Israel which had failed to stay faithful to God.

After the cross God had shown His true nature face to face with His disciples. The difference was now we knew God as a potential friend, as someone who could truly understand and relate to our daily pressures of life.

These disciples understood Gods heart, His forgiveness and grace, His justice and righteousness, and His feeling towards those who showed an outward agreement with God, but whole hearts were set only on money, greed and position.

Today we see preachers who appeal to these very sentiments and suggest this is the gospel rather than humbleness, purity of the heart and walking in righteousness. Loving God is obvious when you know Jesus, the man who died that we might have life, the ultimate atoning sacrifice. What a King.

 

[Grace777x70]

Correct. Even Jesus explained in the NT what the OT foreshadowed.

"And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me." Luke 24:44

"Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God." Heb 10:7 (prophecy in Psa 40:7)

Search the Scriptures for they testify of Jesus!

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39

"But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." 2 Cor 3:18

Amen!...now there is a great example of "right believing"...knowing Jesus changes everything.

There is a vast difference between knowing bible "facts" about Jesus then "knowing" Jesus Himself.

We can know "facts" but not really know the person behind the facts. We know "facts" about Lincoln but his wife really "knew" him. We need the same thing concerning bible "facts" and "knowing" Jesus.

Right believing in Him and in His finished work to make us one with Him produces the real fruit of "knowing" Him.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Amen!...now there is a great example of "right believing"...knowing Jesus changes everything.

There is a vast difference between knowing bible "facts" about Jesus then "knowing" Jesus Himself.

We can know "facts" but not really know the person behind the facts. We know "facts" about Lincoln but his wife really "knew" him. We need the same thing concerning bible "facts" and "knowing" Jesus.

Right believing in Him and in His finished work to make us one with Him produces the real fruit of "knowing" Him.

Knowing GOD is keeping his commandments.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4​

And what are Jesus' commandments? Everything he spoke.

I will raise them up a Prophet [Christ] from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will take vengeance on him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19​

 

[ladylynn]

To make no distinction between that which was before the cross and that which now is as a result of the cross, is to miss entirely the finished work of Christ on the cross. Including all of the many theological implications inherent in His finished work. It is impossible to have correct Christian doctrine without taking into account all that God changed through the cross. You will only end up with either Christianized Judaism, or Judaized Christianity. Neither of which is Christianity.

I KNOW!! When something is brought up about there being a major distinction about what Jesus said before the cross, many Christians just about have a heart attack!! There are some things Jesus said to the apostles before He went to the cross that applied to the law that His death and resurrection totally changed for them and everyone there after.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Knowing GOD is keeping his commandments.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4​

And what are Jesus' commandments? Everything he spoke.

I will raise them up a Prophet [Christ] from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will take vengeance on him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19​

Ever look at a woman with lust in your heart??

 

[ladylynn]

"I was just in the Bible study room and was told that we can't expect God to take care of us as if we are some special person or something."- Ladylynn

When I was first reborn ... that is ALL the Lord taught me for a very, very long time.

My first step as a newborn...was to fully soak up the understanding and confidence that I WAS special to Him and that He WOULD take care of me in a very personal way.

It was a time alone with Him in the wilderness (as Jesus had before beginning his ministry, as Paul had before beginning his ministry) to establish a PERSONAL relationship with Him.

So many rob themselves of this wonderful understanding and preparation by relying on a pastor to give them that relationship.

If we forego that alone time with Him, then we forego the precious blessing of a personal relationship with Him.

I do wish some of those Christians I dearly love in the Bible study room would come here and discuss this. It gets very difficult to talk on the mic sometimes. Writing is much easier than talking for me.

 

[roaringkitten]

Amen!...now there is a great example of "right believing"...knowing Jesus changes everything.

There is a vast difference between knowing bible "facts" about Jesus then "knowing" Jesus Himself.

We can know "facts" but not really know the person behind the facts. We know "facts" about Lincoln but his wife really "knew" him. We need the same thing concerning bible "facts" and "knowing" Jesus.

Right believing in Him and in His finished work to make us one with Him produces the real fruit of "knowing" Him.

Good points! God even takes it further by saying that we are known OF God!(Those who die lost were never known BY Him- Matt 7:23)

"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God..." Gal 4:9a

 

[Grace777x70]

well..thank God that the apostle of love himself told us what the commandments of Jesus are to the Christian in the New Covenant:

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead

Knowing GOD is keeping his commandments.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4​

And what are Jesus' commandments? Everything he spoke.

I will raise them up a Prophet [Christ] from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will take vengeance on him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19

Ever look at a woman with lust in your heart??

It is as if Jesus never even came and died on the cross in some people's minds...thank God for the cross....it's no wonder that the gospel of the grace of Christ is offensive to them and they fight to create their own righteousness by their deeds.
​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is as if Jesus never even came and died on the cross in some people's minds...thank God for the cross....it's no wonder that the gospel of the grace of Christ is offensive to them and they fight to create their own righteousness by their deeds.
[/INDENT]

A completely false characterization. We're not trying to create anything. Christ is our justification. Good works simply prove we are connected to the vine, and keeping ourselves undefiled from sin and the world keeps us holy. Faith without works is dead.

 

[Grace777x70]

If we would just preach the gospel of the grace of Christ alone - all things will fall into place.

Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

We all agree to what the fruit of the Christian life should look like....where we differ is "how" this is accomplished. Grace-believers believe it is all grace through faith in Christ's finished work alone..apart from our works.

Works-based proponents believe "they" must "do" things to keep their salvation intact. Great massive difference which in reality means that they are in effect "denying " the Lord and what He has done. They are trying to "perfect" His work.

Galatians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Works-based proponents believe "they" must "do" things to keep their salvation intact. Great massive difference which in reality means that they are in effect "denying " the Lord and what He has done. They are trying to "perfect" His work.
[/B]

It's not a matter of keeping salvation intact. GOD keeps it intact IF we don't allow the wicked one to kick out the one who preserves us. GOD will cease to sanctify us if we through habitual disobedience tell him that he is no longer welcome.

 

[Grace777x70]

*shaking my head* ...the wicked one can kick out Jesus?..as He is the One who preserves us in Him.

My goodness.....I can't believe I just saw that in a post.....

2 Timothy 4:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

John 10:28-29 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. ( well..Jesus lied as the devil can kick us out from His hand )

[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. ( well..Jesus lied as the devil can kick us out from the Father's hand )

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

*shaking my head* ...the wicked one can kick out Jesus?..as He is the One who preserves us in Him.

uh no. If you let satan in, Jesus leaves.

 

[Grace777x70]

This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"

We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....

however there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.

God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

( this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )

Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal

Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,

[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive ) = done deal



Sanctification to our "religious minds" could mean a lot of different things to different people as it depends on the religious beliefs formulated from our backgrounds....it could be no doing any of the "biggie sins"..or to others its...no smoking..no drinking..no going to church..no reading your bible every day..no praying for an hour each day.....no going to a movie...no reading a newspaper...no being a servant of God...to the D.I.Y. self-righteous/holiness mindset it's no doing "what I don't do..".....

 

[Grace777x70]

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is already in us in Christ - in our inner man of the heart - the new creation in Christ.

There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit - inner man created in righteousness and holiness ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our outward behavior to reflect the life of Christ that is already in us.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY

 

[ember]

uh no. If you let satan in, Jesus leaves.

you have it utterly reversed..quelle surprise

if you let JESUS in, the devil flees

David was convinced of the presence of God EVERYWHERE

it is a common misconception that God and the devil cannot be in the same place at the same time

you cannot find that in scripture anywhere...it seems to be a doctrine of the Pentecostal Assemblies of the US and Canada

I'm not Pentecostal but I sure have had he pleasure of attending their churches

7Where can I go from your Spirit?Where can I flee from your presence?

8If I go up to the heavens, you are there;if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.

9If I rise on the wings of the dawn,if I settle on the far side of the sea,

10even there your hand will guide me,your right hand will hold me fast.

11If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide meand the light become night around me,”

12even the darkness will not be dark to you;the night will shine like the day,for darkness is as light to you.

 

[ember]

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[TD="width: 100%"]1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.[/TD]
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[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"]"You have to love God more! You must have more passion for God!” You have probably heard this type of preaching and may have even tried your best to love God, only to fail miserably.
But what is the true definition of love? Let the Bible define it for us: “…this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us…” Yes, it is not about our love for Him, but His love for us!
"but the Bible says that you must love God with all your heart, soul and strength!”
Yes, that is true according to the law (Deuteronomy 6:5), and even Jesus taught that as the great commandment when He walked on earth. (Matthew 22:37)


But that was BEFORE HE DIED ON THE CROSS. At the cross, He became the very fulfillment of this law for us when HE loved us with all His heart, soul and strength, by laying down His body and life on the cross for us. Today, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW BUT UNDER GRACE.



And grace tells us that God loves us, not that we love God. Yet, we will love Him when we see how much He loves us. The Bible says that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us! (Romans 5:8) That’s how much He loves us!
Beloved, God has seen you trying your best to love Him. And because He loves you, He wants you to sit down and be still, and let Him love you instead. He wants to love you with all that He is and all that He has. He loves you unconditionally regardless of who you are or what you have done because His love is not dependent on you but on Himself. He will never stop loving you.
So let God love you today. Don’t worry about loving Him. The more of His love you receive, the more you will fall in love with Him!

Destined to Reign Devotional for today[/TD]
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that is exactly how I learned to love Him...just let His love wash over me and I responded

we really need to understand that our love will ALWAYS fail...we fail each other constantly as proof...if any was even needed

 

[roaringkitten]

It's not a matter of keeping salvation intact. GOD keeps it intact IF we don't allow the wicked one to kick out the one who preserves us. GOD will cease to sanctify us if we through habitual disobedience tell him that he is no longer welcome.

Such a contradiction you posted. How can "preservation" exist if at any one point, we can become lost again? Where does the Bible teach the wicked one can kick out Jesus?

 

[jasonj]

that is exactly how I learned to love Him...just let His love wash over me and I responded

we really need to understand that our love will ALWAYS fail...we fail each other constantly as proof...if any was even needed

His Love in us, Loves as He Loves us...."as" meaning in the ways he expresses and teaches