BEFORE THE CROSS/AFTER THE CROSS

FreeNChrist · Mar 20, 2016

"...greater is He Who is in you, than he who is in the world." 1 John 4:4

1412 · Mar 20, 2016

hi I'm new here . Thought these scriptures might provoke some thought. After the cross and with the cross. Luke 23:55-56King James Version (KJV)[SUP]55 [/SUP]And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

[SUP]56 [/SUP]And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Revelation 14:12King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

as well as the new covenant that was (to the house of Israel) that branches were broken off so as to be grafted into or might as far to say adopted into .. Paul says a Jew is not one outwardly but one inwardly maybe hinting at those who follow the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law. committing adultery is adultery. letter of the law. but lusting even with the eye is the same offence, the spirit of the law. murder hate etc,

from stone tablets to the heart

Jeremiah 31:31-34King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

See for
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 1 john 3
for where no law is, there is no transgression. rom 4
but sin is not imputed when there is no law. rom 5

and yes it is said now Deuteronomy 6:5King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
and Leviticus 19:18King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

Matthew 22:37-40King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets

Like ten fingers attached to two arms . the first four how to love Him and the other six how to love man.

Blessings .

and if it arises in the mind

Colossians 2:14King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Blotting out the (handwriting of ordinances ) that was (against us), which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Deuteronomy 31:24-26King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of ( writing the words of this law) in a book, until they were finished,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may ( be there for a witness against thee.)

1412 · Mar 20, 2016

Which law was done away with might I ask? which of these is ok to break now scripturally speaking?

You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

seed_time_harvest · Mar 20, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

John was not talking about keeping the commandments according to will-power(law)but he Is saying we keep the commandments because GOD first loved us.(grace)

crossnote · Mar 21, 2016

ladylynn said:

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[TD="width: 100%"]1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.[/TD]
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[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"]"You have to love God more! You must have more passion for God!” You have probably heard this type of preaching and may have even tried your best to love God, only to fail miserably.
But what is the true definition of love? Let the Bible define it for us: “…this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us…” Yes, it is not about our love for Him, but His love for us!
"but the Bible says that you must love God with all your heart, soul and strength!”
Yes, that is true according to the law (Deuteronomy 6:5), and even Jesus taught that as the great commandment when He walked on earth. (Matthew 22:37)

But that was BEFORE HE DIED ON THE CROSS. At the cross, He became the very fulfillment of this law for us when HE loved us with all His heart, soul and strength, by laying down His body and life on the cross for us. Today, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW BUT UNDER GRACE.

And grace tells us that God loves us, not that we love God. Yet, we will love Him when we see how much He loves us. The Bible says that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us! (Romans 5:8) That’s how much He loves us!
Beloved, God has seen you trying your best to love Him. And because He loves you, He wants you to sit down and be still, and let Him love you instead. He wants to love you with all that He is and all that He has. He loves you unconditionally regardless of who you are or what you have done because His love is not dependent on you but on Himself. He will never stop loving you.
So let God love you today. Don’t worry about loving Him. The more of His love you receive, the more you will fall in love with Him!

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The true believer was never under the law but under grace...even in the OT.
Read Heb 11.
The law never nullified the promises of God which were given before Sinai.

seed_time_harvest · Mar 21, 2016

I hope no one was saying we should keep the commandments as In the ten commandments.I may have misunderstood what some were saying,If I did,please forgive me.

JGIG · Mar 21, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

You speak completely contrary to Scripture.

As if the 'wicked one' has power enough to kick out Christ Jesus!

38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (from Rom. 8)

-JGIG

thepsalmist · Mar 21, 2016

seed_time_harvest said:

"I hope no one was saying we should keep the commandments as In the ten commandments.I may have misunderstood what some were saying"-STH

You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

- Of COURSE we should not have any other God!!!
-WHY would we make IDOLS ... to worship them like pagans?
-The world takes the Lord's name in vain all the time- it's sickening to me!
-I DO keep the sabbath ... 24/7 for God has given me rest in Christ
-what's wrong with honoring those who raised you?
-murder, adultery, theft! Are you kidding me?!!! These are horrible things!
-slander my neighbor? I'm supposed to LOVE my neighbor
-covetry? That's what started all this misery! Shall I envy like the devil?

Let's not get so carried away by theological doctrine that we start shuddering at the thought of keeping the ten commandments ...WHAT is wrong with the TEN COMMANDMENTS? We SHOULD keep them!

I do believe in Grace ... we were redeemed by Christ and live in Christ. Jesus and the Holy Spirit lead and counsel us in spirit and truth. They work in us ...

that said ... to respond to this post that said:
'I hope no one was saying we should keep the commandments as In the ten commandments"-STH

I will say ...

!!!We SHOULD keep the ten commandments!!!

Grace777x70 · Mar 21, 2016

I believe the New Covenant teaches us that we live from a different life in us now. It's not a matter of "keeping" the 10 commandments as all these are fulfilled in Jesus and we are in Him. We live from the Life in us and not from the Old Covenant command keeping. ( we love and thus fulfill all the law )

Live from the 10 promises now instead of the 10 commandments

1) When you know ME, you will have no need for other gods because you have a good, loving Father.

2) When you know ME, the idols in life will fade like mist in the sun.

3) When you know ME, you will never stop speaking My name to establish freedom - My name is Jesus

4) When you know ME, you will cease from your own works and rest in My finished work by grace through faith alone.

5) When you know ME, you will be honoring to others and be honored as fathers and mothers to others in the world.

6) When you know ME, you will restore life.

7) When you know ME, you will experience deep authentic relationships that you will treasure.

8) When you know ME, you will be established in abundance and generosity.

9) When you know ME, you will be my witness.

10) When you know ME, your love for your neighbor will bring restoration to this world.

The 10 commandments in the Old Covenant are now the 10 promises fulfilled in us through our relationship and union with our Father because we are in Christ.

The law is good and holy but we can't keep them - only Jesus can and has already done so for us. We keep all the good in the law by the law of love that is in us in Christ.

It's a different focus in the New Covenant. The focus is on Christ and in His finished work which imparts to us a Life that loves in and through us and thus demonstrates the true heart of our Father to a hurt and dying world as well as to our brethren in Christ.

thepsalmist · Mar 21, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

If I tell my child ... Do NOT USE THE STOVE.

And then I tell him later ...you CAN use the microwave.

Are these both the same statements? ... no.

He should remember BOTH of my statements.

*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***

Example: In number 9 you wrote ... "when you know me you will be my witness" That's good and true ... but ALSO let's not forget to NOT SLANDER OUR NEIGHBOR!

Example: In number 7 you wrote "when you know me, you will experience deep authentic relationships that you will treasure." ... but ALSO ... nonetheless DO NOT LUST WITH YOUR EYES for that is ADULTERY!

Example: In number 3 you wrote " When you know me, you will never stop speaking My name to establish freedom - My name is Jesus" ... indeed we will advance Christ as savior ...but ALSO we will CRINGE when someone uses the name of the Lord to profane : "J...C!" For we REMEMBER that we SHALL NOT TAKE THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN!

Grace777x70 · Mar 21, 2016

thepsalmist said:

If I tell my child ... Do NOT USE THE STOVE.

And then I tell him later ...you CAN use the microwave.

Are these both the same statements? ... no.

He should remember BOTH of my statements.

*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***

Example: In number 9 you wrote ... "when you know me you will be my witness" That's good and true ... but ALSO let's not forget to NOT SLANDER OUR NEIGHBOR!

Example: In number 7 you wrote "when you know me, you will experience deep authentic relationships that you will treasure." ... but ALSO ... nonetheless DO NOT LUST WITH YOUR EYES for that is ADULTERY!

Example: In number 3 you wrote " When you know me, you will never stop speaking My name to establish freedom - My name is Jesus" ... indeed we will advance Christ as savior ...but ALSO we will CRINGE when someone uses the name of the Lord to profane : "J...C!" For we REMEMBER that we SHALL NOT TAKE THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN!

Yep!..the life of Christ in us changes us!....

seed_time_harvest · Mar 21, 2016

thepsalmist said:

the old covenant was given under law,before grace.
So then If a person tried to keep the ten commandments,a person would have to keep It without the help of JESUS because the way to the most holy place was not yet come.

You cannot mix the two.It's law or grace
You or JESUS.

ladylynn · Mar 21, 2016

crossnote said:

In order to be presentable to God there needed to be a sacrifice of blood. God demanded righteousness from man. Man always failed and had to get that blood on the alter for payment. But under the new covenant of Grace, God imparts righteousness to man through the finished work of Jesus (Romans 4:5-7)

Also, it was always what man could do for God and not looking at what God has done for man. How often do we hear about "how much do you love God? Do you love God enough to do this or that?" When in fact our focus should be on How much God loves us by sending His Son Jesus.

Religion has it backwards. And religion has failed people. We can't measure up consistently. Even when we think we managed to "do" enough today, zappo we fail at some point soon after. Nothing we do every stays done!!! Being mindful of the new covenant of grace forces us (joyfully) to see and magnify what Jesus has done on the cross on our behalf.

God doesn't want to see us trying to get on the cross. We are supposed to be honoring how Jesus already went to the cross. How because Jesus overcame all odds, we are now over comers. We are now more than conquerors IN Christ. We can't do anything aside from that knowledge and focus. We rest in Jesus finished work. What we do NOW is only possible IN Christ.... we work...to rest.

JGIG · Mar 24, 2016

thepsalmist said:

I understand your approach, and it's not too far off from the Grace perspective, except that the Grace perspective comes at the Ten Commandments like this:

Living in obedience to the Ten Commandments as a believer in Christ is not so much about not doing the don'ts as it is about walking in love:

[*=1]We love God because He first loved us
[*=1]Any idol pales in the presence of the One True God who lives in us - there is no desire for idolatry
[*=1]Our lips lift up and praise the God of our salvation \o/
[*=1]I mirror your statement above - we do keep the Sabbath in Christ - 24/7 for God has given me rest in Christ \o/
[*=1]When we are walking in love we are honoring our parents
[*=1]When we are walking in love we are not murdering
[*=1]When we are walking in love we are not committing adultery
[*=1]When we are walking in love we are not stealing/cheating/scheming
[*=1]When we are walking in love we are not lying to or about others
[*=1]When we are walking in love we are thankful for what we we have and take joy in others' accomplishments/blessings

Grace then takes us further than the Ten Commandments and into the arena of God actually producing His Fruit in and through us, not just Him telling us what His standard is and then expecting us to meet that standard.

14 Let all that you do be done in love. (from 1 Cor. 16)

And love is the Fruit of the Spirit:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. (from Gal. 5)

God's Fruit goes so far beyond His Law \o/! It is the new and living way through Christ and can reach out to all tongues and tribes with the Gospel (Good News) of the Work of Christ:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.” (from Rom. 1)

-JGIG

ladylynn · Mar 24, 2016

JGIG said:

Awesome post JGIG It should be put up in the CC Forums hall of remembrances!

For times when the new covenant of grace needs to be understood correctly. Your post makes it clear .... "shall we sin that grace should abound? God forbid!!

As you said, the law of love takes the 10 commandments and blows them out of the water. The law of love and the law of faith is that new and living way. The 10 commandments were written on tablets of stone. But now Jesus gave us the law of love and wrote it in our hearts and not on tablets of stone. So we obey from the heart.

Romans 6:17-18 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Being then made free from sin, ye become the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

seed_time_harvest · Mar 24, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

True but first make the inside of the cup clean and only GOD can clean the inside,otherwise a person would be trying to love GOD with will-power and although they delight In the law of GOD after the inward man,they will see another law In their flesh warring against the law of their mind and bringing them into captivity to the law of sin which Is in their flesh.

Under grace the spirit Is born of GOD and sealed.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Mar 24, 2016

seed_time_harvest said:

Doesn't matter how you keep the commandments. GOD said do this and don't do that. If out of an act of your own will you refrain from stealing something you desire, because you know his book says to not do that, then you have done GOD's will.

We of our will can't clean up the problem in our heart that caused the desire to steal, but by not outwardly committing a sinful act we keep from defiling ourselves in a worse way.

Self-control is a fruit of the spirit, and and is entirely an act of the will. So it is good and godly to use our will to serve GOD and do his will.

Grace777x70 · Mar 24, 2016

Galatians 3:3 (NASB)

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

Romans 10:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God,but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Mar 24, 2016

seed_time_harvest said:

Whoever walks in the spirit will accomplish all of the righteous works of the law.

in order that the righteousness of the law would be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:4

righteousness/righteous deed
G1345 δικαίωμα dikaioma (dik-ai'-o-mah) n.
1. an equitable deed

This is the same word:

Let us rejoice and be glad and give him the glory, because the wedding celebration of the Lamb has come, and his bride has prepared herself. And it has been granted to her that she be dressed in bright, clean fine linen (for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints). Revelation 19:7-8

seed_time_harvest · Mar 24, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Would you agree that we must first be reborn?
And then by the meries of GOD present our bodies a living sacrifice?

Any other order than that,I count as dung.

BEFORE THE CROSS/AFTER THE CROSS

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