Belief vs faith

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Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
2,843
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48
#41
Why does the voice have to be audible?
The same reason books are not allowed to talk in libraries. :rolleyes:

For those saved by hope, the reason is obvious.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when
the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 5:25​

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Rom 8:24-25

(See Luke 8:15)
 
Feb 7, 2017
275
15
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#42
What's the difference?
To illustrate this, see this:

One man addressed an audience and asked if they believed he was able to cross from one building to another on the tightrope by pushing a wheelbarrow loaded with bricks. Some believed, some did not. He then proceeded and managed to perform this feat. At the thought of doing this a second time, he addressed the audience and again asked if they believed he could handle doing it again. Everyone answered that they believed. Then he asked, "If so, who volunteers to stay in the place of the bricks?" Not one appeared.

In other words, they believe that that man was able to cross from one building to another, but they hadn't enough faith to risk their lives.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
216
113
43
#43
What's the difference?

Over and over the apostle Paul preaches to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. Those that do are called "believers".

Once a person has believed the gospel of Jesus Christ, they are commanded to live out the faith through obedience of Scripture. The life of obedience will be judged at the JSOC. There will be some believers who suffer loss of rewards for lack of obedience. There will be some believers who receive rewards based on a life of obedience.

It is the faith OF Christ. Human belief has no value. It doesn't move molehills let alone mountains. ;)

And the believers who have built with perishable materials will suffer LOSS....not just a lack of rewards. They lose their place in the Body (like cancer cells) and are cast into outer darkness...a place that they claim they can see from. They who walk in darkness, without love for their brethren, will wander in darkness forever.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
216
113
43
#44
To illustrate this, see this:

One man addressed an audience and asked if they believed he was able to cross from one building to another on the tightrope by pushing a wheelbarrow loaded with bricks. Some believed, some did not. He then proceeded and managed to perform this feat. At the thought of doing this a second time, he addressed the audience and again asked if they believed he could handle doing it again. Everyone answered that they believed. Then he asked, "If so, who volunteers to stay in the place of the bricks?" Not one appeared.

In other words, they believe that that man was able to cross from one building to another, but they hadn't enough faith to risk their lives.
All we are is just another brick in the wall! :)
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
1,560
192
63
#45
It is the faith OF Christ. Human belief has no value. It doesn't move molehills let alone mountains. ;)

And the believers who have built with perishable materials will suffer LOSS....not just a lack of rewards.
They will suffer the loss of rewards, but they will still be saved (1 Cor 3:15).

They lose their place in the Body (like cancer cells) and are cast into outer darkness...a place that they claim they can see from. They who walk in darkness, without love for their brethren, will wander in darkness forever.
No Christian will lose their place as a member of the body of Christ. Every member of the body of Christ (every born again Christian) will be saved.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
216
113
43
#46
They will suffer the loss of rewards, but they will still be saved (1 Cor 3:15).


No Christian will lose their place as a member of the body of Christ. Every member of the body of Christ (every born again Christian) will be saved.

Loss means loss. It means to lose the place you previously held. Being saved...yes but as an outcast from the presence of God. Outer darkness.

Have you heard of the 10 virgins? How many are received? How many rejected? It doesn't say the rejected ones are cast into the lake of fire. You really have to study the bible for yourself...
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
1,560
192
63
#47
Loss means loss. It means to lose the place you previously held. Being saved...yes but as an outcast from the presence of God. Outer darkness.
If they are "outcast from the presence of God. Outer darkness", how, or from what, are they saved?

Have you heard of the 10 virgins? How many are received? How many rejected? It doesn't say the rejected ones are cast into the lake of fire.
Do you understand Christianity? Do you understand what God made available on the day of Pentecost? Do you understand the Christian new birth?

You really have to study the bible for yourself...
Indeed...
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
216
113
43
#48
If they are "outcast from the presence of God. Outer darkness", how, or from what, are they saved?


saved from the second death

Do you understand Christianity? Do you understand what God made available on the day of Pentecost? Do you understand the Christian new birth?


Indeed...
Do you understand judgment...that God judges men for what they have done? This is reality not a fairy tale. Do you think that the wages of sin...is life??
Peace
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
1,560
192
63
#49
saved from the second death
So you believe a person can be saved, yet spend eternity in outer darkness, away from the presence of God?

That's not salvation...

Do you understand judgment...that God judges men for what they have done? This is reality not a fairy tale. Do you think that the wages of sin...is life??
Peace
Nope. The wages of sin is indeed death. When we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, we are saved from that death. And yes, every man will be judged according to what he has done. For Christians, people who have the guarantee of salvation, that judgment will be for rewards. There will be a huge difference between a Christian who has done his best to live as a Christian and gets to reign with Christ, and one who is saved "as one escaping through the flames". But both will be saved, and be in the kingdom.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
216
113
43
#50
So you believe a person can be saved, yet spend eternity in outer darkness, away from the presence of God?

That's not salvation...

that's your opinion. What you should say is..."that's not glory"...but in a great house there are vessels of honour and vessels of dishonour.


Nope. The wages of sin is indeed death. When we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, we are saved from that death. And yes, every man will be judged according to what he has done. For Christians, people who have the guarantee of salvation, that judgment will be for rewards. There will be a huge difference between a Christian who has done his best to live as a Christian and gets to reign with Christ, and one who is saved "as one escaping through the flames". But both will be saved, and be in the kingdom.

Opinions mean nothing. You are free to not understand. But many will say...Lord Lord and be rejected. The Laodiceans are spit out of Jesus' mouth. But of course you don't receive that...why? Are you also among the blind?
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
1,560
192
63
#51
Opinions mean nothing. You are free to not understand. But many will say...Lord Lord and be rejected. The Laodiceans are spit out of Jesus' mouth. But of course you don't receive that...why? Are you also among the blind?
This is your 4th post to me, and you're already telling me what I don't receive, and suggesting I am blind..

Nice meeting you. :)
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
216
113
43
#52
This is your 4th post to me, and you're already telling me what I don't receive, and suggesting I am blind..

Nice meeting you. :)

Who said that? ;)

You are making statements that are merely your opinion....and refusing the biblical truth...so what does that make you? What's your opinion on that?
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
1,560
192
63
#53
Who said that? ;)

You are making statements that are merely your opinion....and refusing the biblical truth...so what does that make you? What's your opinion on that?
We differ on what biblical truth is.

It happens a lot around here...
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
216
113
43
#54
We differ on what biblical truth is.

It happens a lot around here...
Sure. But what is your form of doctrine doing for you? Do you walk in in the Spirit in holiness with a joy unspeakable all the time? Do you fellowship with brothers as you read in the Acts. Are signs and wonders following your walk? That's how we can now if we are walking in our own ideas or we are walking in the presence of God. Is something missing or are we filled with all the fullness of God. What is our testimony? Is it life and light...or a continued death and darkness?
 
Jun 10, 2018
32
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#55
What's the difference?

Over and over the apostle Paul preaches to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. Those that do are called "believers".

Once a person has believed the gospel of Jesus Christ, they are commanded to live out the faith through obedience of Scripture. The life of obedience will be judged at the JSOC. There will be some believers who suffer loss of rewards for lack of obedience. There will be some believers who receive rewards based on a life of obedience.
Faith is that form of believing based solely upon scriptures that have been illuminated by the Holy Spirit and will always produce works appropriate with repentance by those who have been born of the Spirit