Believing and Receiving the Holy Ghost
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Peter and Paul speak by inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Their words confirm the truth not contradict it.
Since there is only the one instance of Jesus breathing the Holy Spirit into all the apostles with the exception of Thomas it was for a specific purpose exclusive to them at the time. A doctrine will always be confirmed by 2-3 scripture witnesses without exception.
Again, one can not be reborn spiritually without having the Holy Spirit. What did Paul say? "Have you received the Holy Spirit...?"
Since there is only the one instance of Jesus breathing the Holy Spirit into all the apostles with the exception of Thomas it was for a specific purpose exclusive to them at the time. A doctrine will always be confirmed by 2-3 scripture witnesses without exception.
Again, one can not be reborn spiritually without having the Holy Spirit. What did Paul say? "Have you received the Holy Spirit...?"
This discussion is specifically about when a person initially receives the Holy Ghost.
As far as your statement that I promote baptismal regeneration, that is not true. Excerpts from the following article detail the error far better than I could explain it:
"Exactly what is “baptismal regeneration”? The phrase connotes different things to different people. For some, the expression is merely a bit of inflammatory rhetoric designed to intimidate those who affirm that baptism is a part of the regeneration process. To others, it is the notion that baptism is a “sacrament” which has a sort of mysterious, innate power to remove the contamination of sin — independent of personal faith and a volitional submission to God’s plan of redemption.
The doctrine of baptism’s essentiality has the support of the Bible; the “sacramental” ideology does not. Let us reflect upon this latter concept.
Baptism As a Mystical Sacrament
...This view involves the idea that “baptism” need not be accompanied by faith, or personal surrender to the Lord...
But how does the teaching of the New Testament differ from this concept of “baptismal regeneration”?
New Testament Baptism
First, there is nothing in the teaching of the Scriptures which would even remotely suggest that there is some magical essence inherent in the water of baptism that can effect forgiveness of sin. Rather, baptism, i.e., immersion in water, is a rite that is accompanied by both faith (Mark 16:16) and repentance (Acts 2:38). Void of those prerequisites, it has no validity whatever.
Second, baptism is an act of obedience wherein one expresses his confidence in the power of Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection to produce pardon. Paul makes it quite clear that when one is buried with Christ through baptism, it is into the Lord’s death, i.e., the benefits of his death, that the sinner comes.
And, just as the Son of God was raised from the dead to the glory of Father, even so, when one is raised from the burial of baptism, he passes into a state characterized as “newness of life” (Rom. 6:4).
The power to save is in Jesus’ death and resurrection. Penitent believers access that power when they humbly submit to the Lord’s requirement to replicate the Savior’s burial and resurrection in the action of baptism (cf. Col. 2:12-13).
Third, though we readily acknowledge that there is no “sacramental” power intrinsic to the water of baptism, that does not give us leave to repudiate the sacred connection between the rite of baptism and forgiveness. To do so, is to ignore numerous passages of the plainest import.
Salvation is preceded by both faith and baptism, according to the precise language of Mark 16:16. The Greek text literally suggests: “He who has believed, and who has been immersed, shall be saved.” In a parallel passage, baptism is viewed as the culminating act by which one is acknowledged as a disciple (Mt. 28:19 – ASV).
Jesus informed Nicodemas that one does not enter the kingdom of God except by the new birth process (Jn. 3:5), which involves “water,” i.e., baptism. Not many would deny that the new birth and “regeneration” are equivalents. Hence, there is a solid connection between regeneration and the birth that involves water. For fifteen centuries it was conceded that the “water” of this passage is an allusion to baptism.
John Calvin introduced the novel view that the “water” must be spiritualized, and he has been followed by numerous advocates of the doctrine of salvation by “faith alone.” The historian Philip Schaff observed that Calvin’s view was an excessive reaction to the dogma of Catholicism, and that it is impossible to disassociate the “water” in this verse from the rite of baptism (Lange, p. 127).
When asked: “What shall we do?” by sincere folks who had been convicted of their sin guilt, Peter informed them that they must repent and be baptized “for the forgiveness of your sins” (Acts 2:38). No sectarian quibble can evade the force of this transparent command and the design associated with it.
Paul of Tarsus, who had been praying for days — and still was lost, was instructed to: “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16). This was not “baptismal regeneration” in a mystical sense; rather, it was merely submission to an inspired ordinance.
It is by baptism that one is said to enter “into Christ” (Rom. 6:4; Gal. 3:27), wherein salvation is located (2 Timothy 2:10).
Paul describes baptism as a “washing of water,” or a “washing of regeneration,” in connection with which the sinner is “cleansed” or “saved” (Eph. 5:26; Tit. 3:5). A.T. Robertson, a Baptist scholar, concedes that both of these passages allude to water baptism (p. 607). And so, while the Roman Catholic dogma of “baptismal regeneration” is false, there is a perfectly legitimate nexus between baptism and regeneration.
Peter unequivocally affirms that baptism is involved in our salvation. Just as Noah and his family were transported from an environment of corruption into a realm of deliverance, so, similarly, in baptism we are moved from the world of defilement into a redeemed relationship with the Lord (1 Pet. 3:21).
One does not have to believe in the Catholic concept of “baptismal regeneration” in order to acknowledge that there is a relationship between water immersion and forgiveness, in the passages cited above.
The Principle Involved
Perhaps it would be helpful if we would illustrate, by other cases in the Scriptures, the principle that is involved in this relationship.
The Case of Naaman
Naaman was an officer in the Syrian army, but he was woefully afflicted with the dreaded disease leprosy. The prophet Elisha bade him go “wash” in the Jordan river, promising that he would be “clean.” Finally, after some equivocation, the captain thus did, and his flesh was restored (2 Kgs. 5:14).
Certainly there was no merit in Jordan’s water, and there is no textual suggestion that Namaan was disposed to trust in the efficacy of the river; he simply came to a state of confidence in the prophet’s message. There was no “water healing” in this case. But who, thinking rationally, could deny that his restoration was dependent upon submission to the divine command?
The Man Born Blind
Jesus once encountered a man who had been blind since birth. The Lord spat upon the ground and made a clay potion, anointing the man’s eyes. He then commissioned the gentleman to: “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (Jn. 9:7). The man obeyed; he washed, and came away seeing.
Was there medicinal value in Siloam’s water? Of course not. Should the blind man have refused the Savior’s command? What if he had reasoned in this fashion: “If I go and wash, that will suggest that I am trusting in water. I do not believe in ‘washing restoration.’ I do not wish to ‘merit’ my sight. Therefore, I will simply trust in Jesus’ power to heal, and refrain from going to Siloam.” Just what would have been the result?
Perhaps the following chart will help to put things in focus with reference to the connection between baptism and salvation, and the order of their occurrence, in the scriptural plan.
The Biblical Order
Baptism
Salvation (Mk. 16:16)
Born of Water
Enter Kingdom (Jn. 3:5)
Baptism
Remission of Sins (Acts 2:38)
Baptism
Washing (Acts 22:16)
Baptism
Death of Christ (Rom. 6:3)
Washed
Justified (1 Cor. 6:11)
Baptism
Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13)
Baptism
Clothed With Christ (Gal. 3:27)
Washing of Water
Cleansed (Eph. 5:26)
Baptism
Working of God (Col. 2:12)
Washing of Regeneration
Saved (Tit. 3:5)
Baptism
Saved (1 Pet. 3:21)
Conclusion
Even when one has done precisely as the Lord commands, he has merited nothing; he has earned nothing. The fact that we are saved by God’s grace does not negate human responsibility in accepting Heaven’s gift, and one’s refusal to do what is clearly commanded by the Son of God, or to assign it a subordinate status, is not justified.
From Christiancourier.com
As far as your statement that I promote baptismal regeneration, that is not true. Excerpts from the following article detail the error far better than I could explain it:
"Exactly what is “baptismal regeneration”? The phrase connotes different things to different people. For some, the expression is merely a bit of inflammatory rhetoric designed to intimidate those who affirm that baptism is a part of the regeneration process. To others, it is the notion that baptism is a “sacrament” which has a sort of mysterious, innate power to remove the contamination of sin — independent of personal faith and a volitional submission to God’s plan of redemption.
The doctrine of baptism’s essentiality has the support of the Bible; the “sacramental” ideology does not. Let us reflect upon this latter concept.
Baptism As a Mystical Sacrament
...This view involves the idea that “baptism” need not be accompanied by faith, or personal surrender to the Lord...
But how does the teaching of the New Testament differ from this concept of “baptismal regeneration”?
New Testament Baptism
First, there is nothing in the teaching of the Scriptures which would even remotely suggest that there is some magical essence inherent in the water of baptism that can effect forgiveness of sin. Rather, baptism, i.e., immersion in water, is a rite that is accompanied by both faith (Mark 16:16) and repentance (Acts 2:38). Void of those prerequisites, it has no validity whatever.
Second, baptism is an act of obedience wherein one expresses his confidence in the power of Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection to produce pardon. Paul makes it quite clear that when one is buried with Christ through baptism, it is into the Lord’s death, i.e., the benefits of his death, that the sinner comes.
And, just as the Son of God was raised from the dead to the glory of Father, even so, when one is raised from the burial of baptism, he passes into a state characterized as “newness of life” (Rom. 6:4).
The power to save is in Jesus’ death and resurrection. Penitent believers access that power when they humbly submit to the Lord’s requirement to replicate the Savior’s burial and resurrection in the action of baptism (cf. Col. 2:12-13).
Third, though we readily acknowledge that there is no “sacramental” power intrinsic to the water of baptism, that does not give us leave to repudiate the sacred connection between the rite of baptism and forgiveness. To do so, is to ignore numerous passages of the plainest import.
Salvation is preceded by both faith and baptism, according to the precise language of Mark 16:16. The Greek text literally suggests: “He who has believed, and who has been immersed, shall be saved.” In a parallel passage, baptism is viewed as the culminating act by which one is acknowledged as a disciple (Mt. 28:19 – ASV).
Jesus informed Nicodemas that one does not enter the kingdom of God except by the new birth process (Jn. 3:5), which involves “water,” i.e., baptism. Not many would deny that the new birth and “regeneration” are equivalents. Hence, there is a solid connection between regeneration and the birth that involves water. For fifteen centuries it was conceded that the “water” of this passage is an allusion to baptism.
John Calvin introduced the novel view that the “water” must be spiritualized, and he has been followed by numerous advocates of the doctrine of salvation by “faith alone.” The historian Philip Schaff observed that Calvin’s view was an excessive reaction to the dogma of Catholicism, and that it is impossible to disassociate the “water” in this verse from the rite of baptism (Lange, p. 127).
When asked: “What shall we do?” by sincere folks who had been convicted of their sin guilt, Peter informed them that they must repent and be baptized “for the forgiveness of your sins” (Acts 2:38). No sectarian quibble can evade the force of this transparent command and the design associated with it.
Paul of Tarsus, who had been praying for days — and still was lost, was instructed to: “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16). This was not “baptismal regeneration” in a mystical sense; rather, it was merely submission to an inspired ordinance.
It is by baptism that one is said to enter “into Christ” (Rom. 6:4; Gal. 3:27), wherein salvation is located (2 Timothy 2:10).
Paul describes baptism as a “washing of water,” or a “washing of regeneration,” in connection with which the sinner is “cleansed” or “saved” (Eph. 5:26; Tit. 3:5). A.T. Robertson, a Baptist scholar, concedes that both of these passages allude to water baptism (p. 607). And so, while the Roman Catholic dogma of “baptismal regeneration” is false, there is a perfectly legitimate nexus between baptism and regeneration.
Peter unequivocally affirms that baptism is involved in our salvation. Just as Noah and his family were transported from an environment of corruption into a realm of deliverance, so, similarly, in baptism we are moved from the world of defilement into a redeemed relationship with the Lord (1 Pet. 3:21).
One does not have to believe in the Catholic concept of “baptismal regeneration” in order to acknowledge that there is a relationship between water immersion and forgiveness, in the passages cited above.
The Principle Involved
Perhaps it would be helpful if we would illustrate, by other cases in the Scriptures, the principle that is involved in this relationship.
The Case of Naaman
Naaman was an officer in the Syrian army, but he was woefully afflicted with the dreaded disease leprosy. The prophet Elisha bade him go “wash” in the Jordan river, promising that he would be “clean.” Finally, after some equivocation, the captain thus did, and his flesh was restored (2 Kgs. 5:14).
Certainly there was no merit in Jordan’s water, and there is no textual suggestion that Namaan was disposed to trust in the efficacy of the river; he simply came to a state of confidence in the prophet’s message. There was no “water healing” in this case. But who, thinking rationally, could deny that his restoration was dependent upon submission to the divine command?
The Man Born Blind
Jesus once encountered a man who had been blind since birth. The Lord spat upon the ground and made a clay potion, anointing the man’s eyes. He then commissioned the gentleman to: “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (Jn. 9:7). The man obeyed; he washed, and came away seeing.
Was there medicinal value in Siloam’s water? Of course not. Should the blind man have refused the Savior’s command? What if he had reasoned in this fashion: “If I go and wash, that will suggest that I am trusting in water. I do not believe in ‘washing restoration.’ I do not wish to ‘merit’ my sight. Therefore, I will simply trust in Jesus’ power to heal, and refrain from going to Siloam.” Just what would have been the result?
Perhaps the following chart will help to put things in focus with reference to the connection between baptism and salvation, and the order of their occurrence, in the scriptural plan.
The Biblical Order
Baptism
Salvation (Mk. 16:16)
Born of Water
Enter Kingdom (Jn. 3:5)
Baptism
Remission of Sins (Acts 2:38)
Baptism
Washing (Acts 22:16)
Baptism
Death of Christ (Rom. 6:3)
Washed
Justified (1 Cor. 6:11)
Baptism
Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13)
Baptism
Clothed With Christ (Gal. 3:27)
Washing of Water
Cleansed (Eph. 5:26)
Baptism
Working of God (Col. 2:12)
Washing of Regeneration
Saved (Tit. 3:5)
Baptism
Saved (1 Pet. 3:21)
Conclusion
Even when one has done precisely as the Lord commands, he has merited nothing; he has earned nothing. The fact that we are saved by God’s grace does not negate human responsibility in accepting Heaven’s gift, and one’s refusal to do what is clearly commanded by the Son of God, or to assign it a subordinate status, is not justified.
From Christiancourier.com
Thinking that an individual who has the Holy Spirit residing within their body requires an additional "dose" of the Holy Spirit coming on them for empowerment makes no sense.
The OT people had the Holy Spirit come upon them for empowerment because they were not afforded the opportunity to have the Holy Ghost dwelling inside of their body permanently. The NT spiritual rebirth process was made available to all humanity after Jesus's death, burial and resurrection for all mankind. As Jesus said unless a man is reborn he cannot SEE the kingdom. And unless he is born of water and Spirit he cannot ENTER it. (John 3:3-5)
The OT people had the Holy Spirit come upon them for empowerment because they were not afforded the opportunity to have the Holy Ghost dwelling inside of their body permanently. The NT spiritual rebirth process was made available to all humanity after Jesus's death, burial and resurrection for all mankind. As Jesus said unless a man is reborn he cannot SEE the kingdom. And unless he is born of water and Spirit he cannot ENTER it. (John 3:3-5)
the misunderstanding of many about the Holy Spirit, the baptism in the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the indwelling of the Holy Spirt, and the Holy Spirt upon the believer.
And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.
The Holy Spirit is said to come upon them it did not say the Holy Spirit came in them. These were disciples who were saved but were not taught about the Baptism in the Holy Spirit which is also known as the Baptism of Christ as John the Baptist said in the Gospel of John chapter 1:33
I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’
- The Holy Spirit is the one who creates a godly sorrow so one can see their need for Christ and salvation which leads to repentance.
- the Holy Spirit comes into the person who repents and surrenders to the Lord Jesus Christ and is saved when this is done immediately.
- Then the person should publically and symbolically be water baptized as Jesus was and all the disciples.
- we see in the book of Acts those who were saved ( I believe) yet did not receive the Holy Spirit as Jesus said we would in Acts 1:8 to have the power to be a witness.
And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.
The Holy Spirit is said to come upon them it did not say the Holy Spirit came in them. These were disciples who were saved but were not taught about the Baptism in the Holy Spirit which is also known as the Baptism of Christ as John the Baptist said in the Gospel of John chapter 1:33
I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’
that is not the case when Jesus has done it. Jesus IS God however prior to John 20:22 we have the words of Jesu in John 14 & 15 which speak of this and we have John chapter 1:33 which also tells us of the Baptism of Christ. The action of Jesus in John 20:22 cannot be dismissed because you don't see Jesus breathing on anyone else in scripture HE did not have to.
and this was not the only thing HE said in John 20:22
22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
it is what Jesus instructed the disciples to do after this was done. You do not find in the book of Acts anywhere it is said Peter got saved or any of the disciples for that matter. They were commissioned in John chapter 20 then were told to go and wait for POWER not to be saved. Why would Jesu tell the disciples you forgive sins IF they were not saved yet? John 20:22 is not the only supporting verse for the understanding the disciples were saved and what happened in Acts 2 was in addition to being saved and a separate thing to salvation. AS Jesus said in Acta 1:8 Jesus standing before the disciples as He is getting ready to leave told them to wait for power on high the Holy Spirit will come UPON you. Jesus was with the disciples 40 days after he rose from the dead and they were not saved until Jesus ascended?
just because it makes no sense to you doesn't dismiss the truth the word of God show that.
the human mind always tries to limited God and many can't see the Trinity because it is nonsense to them.
The Holy Spirt was before the Day of Pentecost and Azusa St
.
One only has to see how the Holy Spirit worked in the lives of those HE came Upon in the Old Testament And how HE left.
The Holy Spirit who is God came be in person and come upon a person to do things that are supernatural that to the carnal mind and limited mind and understanding of man cannot comprehend.
the same Holy Spirit still empowers the Christian today but is also a resident inside the Believer. that is why we are able to do some very sad things because The Holy Spirit stays with us and doesn't depart.
Grieve the Holy Spirt
quench the Holy Spirit
I would not refer to the Holy Spirit empowerment as an additional dose, that is mockery Jesus said in Acts 1:8
You shall receive POWER After the Holy Spirit has come Upon you to be a witness OF HIM.
AS I SAID this was told to them before the accending and after their salvation. Jesus last words were very important before leaving
the human mind always tries to limited God and many can't see the Trinity because it is nonsense to them.
The Holy Spirt was before the Day of Pentecost and Azusa St
.One only has to see how the Holy Spirit worked in the lives of those HE came Upon in the Old Testament And how HE left.
The Holy Spirit who is God came be in person and come upon a person to do things that are supernatural that to the carnal mind and limited mind and understanding of man cannot comprehend.
the same Holy Spirit still empowers the Christian today but is also a resident inside the Believer. that is why we are able to do some very sad things because The Holy Spirit stays with us and doesn't depart.
Grieve the Holy Spirt
quench the Holy Spirit
I would not refer to the Holy Spirit empowerment as an additional dose, that is mockery Jesus said in Acts 1:8
You shall receive POWER After the Holy Spirit has come Upon you to be a witness OF HIM.
AS I SAID this was told to them before the accending and after their salvation. Jesus last words were very important before leaving
No, I am not. I am saying the Word of God tells us The Baptism of the Holy Spirt for empowerment is the baptism of Christ. Just as the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus He comes upon us to empower us to do God's work and be a witness of the resurrected Christ.
Those who are baptized in water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirt and in Jesus name are all valid water baptisms. The baptism in the Holy Spirt is not symbolic as water baptism is. The Holy Spirit comes upon the saved person to empower them. water baptism is a Christian publicly saying NO to the world they are dead to and now their life is in Christ as Romans 6 tells us.
Those who are baptized in water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirt and in Jesus name are all valid water baptisms. The baptism in the Holy Spirt is not symbolic as water baptism is. The Holy Spirit comes upon the saved person to empower them. water baptism is a Christian publicly saying NO to the world they are dead to and now their life is in Christ as Romans 6 tells us.
just because it makes no sense to you doesn't dismiss the truth the word of God show that.
the human mind always tries to limited God and many can't see the Trinity because it is nonsense to them.
The Holy Spirt was before the Day of Pentecost and Azusa St.
One only has to see how the Holy Spirit worked in the lives of those HE came Upon in the Old Testament And how HE left.
The Holy Spirit who is God came be in person and come upon a person to do things that are supernatural that to the carnal mind and limited mind and understanding of man cannot comprehend.
the same Holy Spirit still empowers the Christian today but is also a resident inside the Believer. that is why we are able to do some very sad things because The Holy Spirit stays with us and doesn't depart.
Grieve the Holy Spirt
quench the Holy Spirit
I would not refer to the Holy Spirit empowerment as an additional dose, that is mockery Jesus said in Acts 1:8
You shall receive POWER After the Holy Spirit has come Upon you to be a witness OF HIM.
AS I SAID this was told to them before the accending and after their salvation. Jesus last words were very important before leaving
the human mind always tries to limited God and many can't see the Trinity because it is nonsense to them.
The Holy Spirt was before the Day of Pentecost and Azusa St
.One only has to see how the Holy Spirit worked in the lives of those HE came Upon in the Old Testament And how HE left.
The Holy Spirit who is God came be in person and come upon a person to do things that are supernatural that to the carnal mind and limited mind and understanding of man cannot comprehend.
the same Holy Spirit still empowers the Christian today but is also a resident inside the Believer. that is why we are able to do some very sad things because The Holy Spirit stays with us and doesn't depart.
Grieve the Holy Spirt
quench the Holy Spirit
I would not refer to the Holy Spirit empowerment as an additional dose, that is mockery Jesus said in Acts 1:8
You shall receive POWER After the Holy Spirit has come Upon you to be a witness OF HIM.
AS I SAID this was told to them before the accending and after their salvation. Jesus last words were very important before leaving
Also, you are refusing to accept that the OT people did not have the ability to have the Holy Ghost dwelling inside of them on a permanent basis; via the spiritual rebirth experience. That only became available after Jesus' sacrifice.
Nothing symbolic about water baptism according to the scripture you reference. Being baptized into Christ's death is done via water baptism in his name.
Rom 6:3-6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:3-6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
look I am not looking to argue with you but please don't as I see it mock with " additional "dose" of the Holy Spirit coming on them for empowerment makes no sense."
I do respect you, and if you are willing to hear what I am saying too, it matters not to me you agree but you are open to hearing it.
To your point of the OT, no I am not but it was not as we see in the NT. King David I think is a great example of the Holy Spirit in the person but King David is symbolic of Christ. Something was a miss when David sinned yet He prayed "Do not take thy Holy Spirit from me".
Those who were saved prior to the work of Christ was done in the atonement Abraham is not in hell, David is not in hell, The prophets are not in hell.
yes after Jesus rose from the dead salvation by grace through faith IN Jesus only is available. And the empowering of the Holy Spirt is too.
the water represents the grave those who are water baptized should be doing so because they have been saved. And the reson why is because they are a new Creature in Christ Jesus. Water Baptism did not save Jesus and it doesn't save us, The Blood of Jesus only did that. We cannot make the work or action of baptism that save us no more than the empowering of the Holy Spirit doesn't save us.
Jesus told us in Acts 1:8 why we need the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus told us in Acts 1:8 why we need the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.
What I see from the scripture below is that a spiritual reality occurs when a person obeys God's command to be baptized into Jesus' death. It is not a symbolic thing. Many disagree. However, it is easy to visualize being covered in His blood in the action of being buried into his death when a person is placed under the water in baptism.
Rom 6:3-6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death...
Rom 6:3-6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death...