Benefits of Speaking, Praying, and Singing in Tongues

[UnderGrace]

Welcome plain guy!

I have been reading your posts here and you have raised the exact same questions that have been asked in the past.

Paul says "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 1Cor 13:1

He is speaking both in the hypothetical sense and hyperbole, yet how has this become an assertion into a doctrine of tongues which includes tongues of angels as prayer languages?

I as well take no pleasure saying this but this private prayer language is not supported in scripture.

Why would our Father, who knows and understands our every thought before we could even express them desire us to speak in a "heavenly language or tongues of angels" ? There are different types of angels. Does each have it's own distinct dialect ? Or is it simply "tongue of angels" ... singular ? Do they understand each other in heaven when God is being worshipped or do they too require an interpreter ? Tongues in the apostolic age was always an earthly language in order that all could hear the gospel message in their own dialect. What occurs today in charismatic/pentecostal circles is not of God's Spirit ... but of man's flesh and man's desire. Unbiblical to the core. I take no pleasure in saying as much.

 

[wolfwint]

interesting read I think the issue is what you say " Pentecostals/charismatics " claim to have special empowerment . That is opinionated because not all do. Secondly The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not subject to a denomination but in context to the Word of God. To be far I think you have a good point however, in your post it is only speaking about a certain group .

I do not see anything that changes the context of 1 cor chapter 12, 13, and 14 where a person ASK God for what is in those chapters concerning the Gifts of The Holy Spirit. Just because a person says I do not believe that the gifts used today are of God surely doesn't that to be true for all situations. I think for some nothing will meet their approval .

As I have said many times which some have chosen to over look :

1. all Gifts from God are misused by men and women of God ( Saved) .
2. Preaching the most abused in many non-Pentecostal church Yet I would not blanket all as abusers

this topic always has hard lines and some very overly hurt for tones .

some focus on the wrong of denominations in the context of " The Gifts of the Spirit " . I think the context of the Bible and what is for today and well seen Scripture is the way I think to go. One can say what they think is or is not the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" used today ok go ahead

Thanks for still replying
Fact is out of pentecostals ore charismatics no other denomination is teaching the empowerment with the Holy Spirit!

You say: "That is opinionated because not all do."
Then which pentecostal church is not teaching the empowerment with the Holy Spirit?

You say: "Secondly The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not subject to a denomination but in context to the Word of God."
This I would expect! And I agree with! No problem if it would be so. And I believe also that God is giving spiritual gifts.

But only Pentecostals and Charismatics are teaching it in this way: A christian who has already the Holy Spirit will receive a baptism with the Holy Spirit and is getting the gifts for empowerment as an expierience different to the safe act of the Holy Spirit. And not only they teach it they claim also to get this sign gifts.

If your statement would be right, that the gifts which we found used in 1. Corinthians, are also for today, then we would find the sign gifts in all denominations! No need for Azusa Street, ore Toronto blessing ore Powerevangelism.
But it is not! So for me is the question who is the initiator of Azusa Street, Toronto blessing and Powerevangelism? Which Spirit is behind?

Let me give an further example. The Pentecostals/Charismatics teach mainly that the gift of healing is for the church today and are the same which we can found in the Gospels and in Acts.

If you read then gospels and acts you will note:
1. all who came to Jesus ore the apostles where healed!
2. The healed persons where in the time of healing nonbelievers, nowwhere is mentioned that the apostles made healing
services among the followers of Jesus Christ

The purpose why Jesus f.e. healed we can read in John 20,30 This really was a witness of Gods power!


If you look in our today you will note in the groups which are having healing services ore people with the gift of healing:
1. The adressat are followers of Jesus Christ, Christians
2. Not all who comes for healing has been healed. The most going home still sick!

Where here it is a witness of Gods power? If only 2 ore 5 out of 100 are healed?
You note the difference between the apostolic time and today?

Ore I am wrong? Show me the man with gift of healing who heals all who ask him for healing. Show me the healing sevice where all sick and handycapted people which aks for healing are be healed.

Yes, we find healings and miracles in mission situations. Yes, we find healings among sick christians too today. But this is not depend on special gifts ore denominations. Its because of prayer and Gods Yes to this prayer!

You wonder that i doubting to trust this teachings? In spite that we have enough cults which claiming also to have this gifts and they have also results! And healer arouse. We have one woman in our town, she told us she is able to call the Spirit of Jesus for to heal!

 

[88]

Praying in Tongues & Praying in English ***Some ask which is better??? Well, both are valuable***we need to pray in English because we are making our requests known***when we pray in tongues the Spirit is making His request made known***I use to ask my pastor if it was o.k. that I only prayed in tongues that day for 2 hours***he said to pray in English or in tongues as the Spirit led me***of course as a new believer I wanted to be sure I was not missing God***As I grew older I could see the Wisdom of his answer for there are times I would pray in English and at times I would pray in tongues, as I felt led of the Lord and could see that this was fruitful...

 

[jb]

Why would our Father, who knows and understands our every thought before we could even express them desire us to speak in a "heavenly language or tongues of angels" ? There are different types of angels. Does each have it's own distinct dialect ? Or is it simply "tongue of angels" ... singular ? Do they understand each other in heaven when God is being worshipped or do they too require an interpreter ?1) Tongues in the apostolic age was always an earthly language in order that all could hear the gospel message in their own dialect. 2) What occurs today in charismatic/pentecostal circles is not of God's Spirit ... but of man's flesh and man's desire. Unbiblical to the core. 3) I take no pleasure in saying as much.

1) Not so, on the Day of Pentecost the preaching of the Gospel came AFTER the sign of speaking in Tongues. The gift of speaking in Tongues was NOT given for the preaching of the Gospel. Acts 2v8-12,37-39, 1Cor 14v22.

2) Acts 2v1-4,15-21,38,39, (with 1Cor 12v7-11) clearly teaches that the Baptism in the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit (including the gift of Tongues) are available throughout the whole of the Age of Grace right up until the Second Coming of Christ!

3) I'm sure you don't take pleasure in saying so, but you speak out of ignorance, charging God with folly and rubbishing the gifts of the Holy Spirit, which cost the dear Lord Jesus so much to purchase and give to His Church! Matt 7v7-11, Luke 11v9-13, Acts 2v15-33, Rom 10v7, Eph 4v7-16 (esp. v8).

For those interested you can find a study Here on the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[plainguy]

1) Not so, on the Day of Pentecost the preaching of the Gospel came AFTER the sign of speaking in Tongues. The gift of speaking in Tongues was NOT given for the preaching of the Gospel. Acts 2v8-12,37-39, 1Cor 14v22.

Read your own words. You yourself have just declared that "tongues were a sign". Maybe you can now instruct us who tongues were a sign for ? “We hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” ...i.e... languages (Acts 2:11). If our redemption thru Christ isn't the greatest wonder of God, feel free to inform us all what is.

3) I'm sure you don't take pleasure in saying so, but you speak out of ignorance, charging God with folly and rubbishing the gifts of the Holy Spirit, which cost the dear Lord Jesus so much to purchase and give to His Church! Matt 7v7-11, Luke 11v9-13, Acts 2v15-33, Rom 10v7, Eph 4v7-16 (esp. v8).

I'm not charging God with folly nor rubbishing His gifts. I'm charging today's gibberish tongue speakers with folly and fakery. It makes a mockery of God's given sign to the unbelieving Jews of the apostolic era. And for the record, there are no apostles or prophets today either ... no matter how many partake in "anointing" each other as such. Those who will be deceived by fake signs and wonders will be those who desire signs and wonders. As for me, I know Whom I have believed.

 

[wolfwint]

Praying in Tongues & Praying in English ***Some ask which is better??? Well, both are valuable***we need to pray in English because we are making our requests known***when we pray in tongues the Spirit is making His request made known***I use to ask my pastor if it was o.k. that I only prayed in tongues that day for 2 hours***he said to pray in English or in tongues as the Spirit led me***of course as a new believer I wanted to be sure I was not missing God***As I grew older I could see the Wisdom of his answer for there are times I would pray in English and at times I would pray in tongues, as I felt led of the Lord and could see that this was fruitful...

If you dont know what you pray in tongues, from where you know it is fruitful and from where you know that the Holy Spirit is making his request known? I thought praying in tongues is for praising God.
And does not anyway the Holy Spirit translate our prayer for us to God.ändern because we dont know how to pray? According Romans 8, 26-27?

 

[wolfwint]

We will speak with new tongues. Mark 16:17 Tongues made new by the Holy Spirit when we are saved. Tongues that know and love the Savior.

Jas 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

2 Cor 5 tells us all things are new to those who are saved. That includes the tongue.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Did I understand you right? So you mean If we dont speak im tongues we are not saved?

 

[graceNpeace]

Did I understand you right? So you mean If we dont speak im tongues we are not saved?

I don't think he is.

However, speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit, Something that can happen only if one is a believer in the first place.
It is NOT a proof of salvation because the gifts of the Holy Spirit are NOT imparted to every believer equally - so any suggestion that NOT speaking in tongues equals NOT saved is false.

 

[wolfwint]

I am not sure who you are speaking to but I think it is fair to tell you the Holy Spirit work on a person prior to the death and burial and resurrection Of the Lord Jesus Christ would be the same as recorded in the Old testament

The Spirit of the Lord came upon prophets, priest, kings and rulers .

The context in the New Testament is found in John chapter 14 & 16 Not only upon but in you. and remain with you .
Jesus after HIS resurrection appeared to the disciples in John 20:22 and HE Jesus breathed on them and said " Receive the Holy Ghost " . Then they were told to go and wait until they receive power from on high. which happen 10 days after Jesus ascended. Acts 1:8 and Acts 2

John 14 and 16 speaking from the Holy Spirit when he comes at Pentecost and not before. Even when he breathed to the 10 in John 20 it means not they received the Holy Spirit in the way we do when we comes to Christ and are saved. And again the question what is with Thomas? He did not received the Holy Spirit as the other 10 does. If we are honest we do not really know why Jesus breathed to the 10. It is our Suggestion that for this ore that reason. But from the Text we find no answer!
Yes, there is a different in the way how the Holy Spirit works in a OT believer and in a believer after Pentecost.

 

[miknik5]

John 7:39 ( I believe) says THE SPIRIT had not yet been given because that CHRIST JESUS had not yet been glorified

that means THW APIRIT had not come upon any until after CHRIST's crucifixion , resurrection and ascension

 

[wolfwint]

There are many things that the Bible through the Holy Spirit requires of me that have nothing to do with how much I understand. Most of what goes on between me and the Lord are based mostly on my growing knowledge of how much He loves me and provides for me through His great salvation.

I don't understand why He would save such a "wretch" like me. Just like the guy who wrote that song I'm aware of my totally falling short of the mark but I've also been privy to the truth through the Holy Spirit that God loves me IN Christ just as I am and has more for me to be and learn in Christ. Even in the natural we use things that we have no idea how they work yet we totally put our trust in those who built those things we use every day such as electricity, plumbing, cars, trucks, trains, airplanes, doctors and hospitals etc.... Yet we want God to totally explain alllllll things to us before we believe Him and use His gifts?

I decided some time ago not to do that. Instead I want to learn about the things He has richly blessed me with and be taught by the Holy Spirit how to use them each day. Since when do we ever know 100% the mysteries of the Lord Jesus? We have only just begun to scratch the surface of how much Jesus did for us and even then, we have to keep going by grace through faith.

Tongues is a gift I've just begun learning about and have yet to go to a church where it is spoken and there needs to be an interpreter. Right now I am learning about the heavenly language for my own prayer life and seeing how it's part of the Holy Spirit's ministry to me. I've also seen how the using of this gift brings peace and joy and a settled heart. And also how it points to Jesus all the time because these gifts are ours only because of Jesus. The Holy Spirit always reveals the Son.

There are way too many things about the Lord Jesus that come by grace through faith and not through my understanding of those things. It's all based on the love of God in Christ and that is how we know they are of God. His Word also witnesses to these things if we have a heart to hear. Quite often our hearts have been hardened to even consider Bible truths that we have long ago thought were settled in our minds. But we are called to go beyond our understanding and allow the Holy Spirit to flow in and through us and receive those living waters.

Jesus told us in John 7:38-39 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'from his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water' But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

We have a lot to learn from the Holy Spirit. He wants to comfort, guide and teach us all things yet many believers won't hear Him because our minds are closed because we can't fathom other Christians we know didn't tell us this. There are many Christians I respect and loved for many years who do not or did not speak in tongues. I've learned from them and see they have gifts from the Holy Spirit but they are missing out on other things they are just not open to because their minds are closed in that matter. The Lord will never force us to take gifts from Him. They come by grace through faith. But we have to be willing. There is always more for us just as the Lord says., rivers of living water.

Hm, why then God is giving gifts without asking the believer wether he want it ore not? I got a gift without asking for. Why special for the gift of tongues we find different sayings? You have to long for. You have to pray for. You have to learn how to use. You will receive if you have the baptism with the Holy Spirit and meant an different experience then our time when we are saved. We can go to others which teach us how to get the gift of speaking in tongues. No other gift is mentioned to make a different between believers then the gift of speaking in tongues. I ask me why?
Why it is a different to all the other gifts?

 

[miknik5]

Yes,

john 7:37 through 39

in the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

 

[notuptome]

Did I understand you right? So you mean If we dont speak im tongues we are not saved?

No far from it. We speak with a new tongue a tongue that can now glorify Christ which it could not do prior to redemption.

A person cannot witness or testify of the Savior if they do not know Him. Our purpose and our commission is to tell others what Christ has done for us. Tell them about forgiveness of sin, imputation of His righteousness and no condemnation to those who are trusting Him for salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Enow]

John 7:39 ( I believe) says THE SPIRIT had not yet been given because that CHRIST JESUS had not yet been glorified

that means THW APIRIT had not come upon any until after CHRIST's crucifixion , resurrection and ascension

The Spirit of promise that was to accompany our salvation did not come until Christ was no longer present with them and had ascended to God the Father as it is the Father that is to send the promise of the forever abiding Holy Ghost in Jesus's name from Heaven.

The two incidences in Matthew 10th chapter & in John 20th chapter was not the promise sent by the Father from above, but a temporary indwelling of the Holy Ghost because Jesus was still present with them as this was Jesus giving the Spirit to them.

 

[Enow]

God is willing. Apparently some mod is not.

Mods should not be deleting posts they don't like.

...I'm assuming only mods can delete other's posts...

That is my assumption as well, but we cannot accuse. If the mod felt justified about it, he would say so I reckon, but if he is being a bully about the whole thing....time will tell, I guess.

My questions are:

Did you know that there is a supernatural tongue that has been in the world that is just vain & profane babbling before Pentecost had come with God's gift of tongues to speak unto the people? Bible does reference one in Isaiah 8:19

If so, if a sinner was called out from that occult practice and was born again of the Spirit, how can he prove that he has repented of that former lifestyle if he still spoke in that same kind of tongue? How can any one in the assembly be the big brother watching over him when he could be unrepentant in the tongue & familiar spirit he communes by? Or that he had slipped back into practice again for whatever the reason?

And let's say that he is repentant, but picked up that same vain & profane babbling by receiving what other christians claims that was the Holy Spirit that came over him later on after some time when he was saved, bringing that tongue. How can he go out, wishing to evangelize his former sinners in the occult to repent and be saved if he still does the same kind of tongue? How could they be convinced that he is really a christian and that he is sincere when it looks like he is still opening himself up to receive spirits after he was saved?

1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]21 [/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.[SUP] 22 [/SUP]Abstain from all appearance of evil.[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.[SUP] 24 [/SUP]Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.[SUP]25 [/SUP]Brethren, pray for us.

If we are to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil by going before that throne of grace for help from Jesus Christ, how can we do that if we believe that God's gift of tongues can be turned around for the Holy Spirit to use as a means for His personal prayer, and yet John 16:13 says the Holy Spirit cannot use God's gift of tongues in that way at all because He cannot speak for Himself, but speaks what He hears as in being the Spirit of Christ?

So when Paul had given the bottom line on what tongues are for...which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people....1 Corinthians 14:20-22 .. and it is not used as a sign towards believers about anything, let alone receiving the Holy Spirit separate from salvation with a sign of tongue, how can you claim that your tongue is distinct and different from the kind of tongues those that have gained that tongue by the claim of that apostasy, for surely, God would not give His gift of tongues to support a lie?

Mayhap, sharing how you got your gift of tongues from those that have claimed otherwise, may help, but somehow, I would think a problem arises when they use tongues without interpretation the same way as you do, thus they can lord how they got that tongue by receiving what they believe was the Holy Spirit separate from salvation over you to prevent you from saying that how they got that tongue was not of Him, and yet that is how they got that tongue.

Then they can start promoting other signs for receiving the Holy Spirit again like being "slain in the Spirit" or being "drunk in the Spirit" or the "holy laughter" movement, and so how can you stop them?

Maybe you can see why I am so adamant that God's gift of tongues is of other men's lips to speak unto the people and the Holy Spirit cannot use God's gift of tongues as a means for a prayer language. Tongue speakers are reading 1 Corinthians 12-13-14 chapters wrongly when Paul confined the gift of tongue as not a stand alone gift that it has to come with interpretation for that tongue to even be fruitful to the tongue speaker or else he is not truly edified. Tongue speakers has to take every verses in those chapter to see the actual message of what God's gift of tongues were for.

 

[stonesoffire]

Hm, why then God is giving gifts without asking the believer wether he want it ore not? I got a gift without asking for. Why special for the gift of tongues we find different sayings? You have to long for. You have to pray for. You have to learn how to use. You will receive if you have the baptism with the Holy Spirit and meant an different experience then our time when we are saved. We can go to others which teach us how to get the gift of speaking in tongues. No other gift is mentioned to make a different between believers then the gift of speaking in tongues. I ask me why?
Why it is a different to all the other gifts?

We ask for Holy Spirit to fill us. He chooses how He moves towards and in us. Not all believers have the same experience. And it is an experience.

 

[stonesoffire]

We are Spirit if we are born from above. Before this we are flesh beings. There is a language of the Spirit...and He gives it freely.

But, unbelief and fear will keep Him from bestowing what is an important gift of His grace.

 

[UnderGrace]

Where does scripture say fear and unbelief prohibit God from bestowing the gift of tongues?

We are Spirit if we are born from above. Before this we are flesh beings. There is a language of the Spirit...and He gives it freely.

But, unbelief and fear will keep Him from bestowing what is an important gift of His grace.

 

[wolfwint]

No far from it. We speak with a new tongue a tongue that can now glorify Christ which it could not do prior to redemption.

A person cannot witness or testify of the Savior if they do not know Him. Our purpose and our commission is to tell others what Christ has done for us. Tell them about forgiveness of sin, imputation of His righteousness and no condemnation to those who are trusting Him for salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

If you mean it in this way then I fully agree with you!

 

[wolfwint]

We are Spirit if we are born from above. Before this we are flesh beings. There is a language of the Spirit...and He gives it freely.

But, unbelief and fear will keep Him from bestowing what is an important gift of His grace.

Stones who told you that you are now a spirit beeing? This means you dont need food. You dont will be sick. You will have no physical pain.
Well I am still a flesh ly beeing with pain in my back if I want take something from the grohne. Also I need food! Yes I know there is a new creature in me, but what I will be in Future is not revealed yet!
So the Spirit comunicate with me in a normal language. which I can understand. I cant find in the Bible that we have to communicate with the Holy Spirit in an special language which we do not understand. And why the Holy Spirit should talk to us in a language which we dont understand?
I believe that the word of God is true. I have no fear to get any gift. And the gift he gave me, he gave me when I turned to christ. No special expierience!I even I not reconzed it when I received it. It was there!
I never felt that I am missing something in my relationship with the Father, except sometimes my obidient and love when I was sinning . He is telling me what is right and wrong. And I trust His Word! I know I can come to him to any time and he Cares for me. What speaking in tongues could make the relationship better?