BEWARE the Lawkeepers

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2Thewaters

Guest
ten commandments is the law of faith
circumcision is the law of works

read your Bible again.
Abraham kept the law BEFORE he was circumcis
so did noah

it is called the COVENANT LAW the LAW OF FREEDOM FROM SIN
ed
 
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2Thewaters

Guest
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


this law NOMOS is specifically the sacrificial law

there are sefveral laws and the KJV translates ALL of the LAW
have to look up which one he is talking about

just click on it
obvious.
 
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2Thewaters

Guest
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


the law cant be kept by man

the Jews tried that

the law must be kept by divine inspiration

that is the new covenant

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


how do you know if you are under the right covenant?

you are doing the law


simple

only those inspired by God can keep the law

those who are keeping the law must be inspired

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." -Revelation 12:17.


"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." -Revelation 14:12.


"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." -Revelation 22:14.


those people must be inspired.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
So,

stop arguing

get born again

and you will know it cause suddenly you will want to keep the law it is in your heart and desire for God told you that is what he wants

you love him

he puts the desire in you
and you keep it
by his power

if you dont ahve the desire
ask for it

it is his desire in you to ask for it


You’re going to have to believe all things, and if there be any good, think on these things.
Hopes all things; never give up hope. You know, you have this hope and trust and you have this understanding that this is the way,
walk ye in it.
God's true church have a way, and they have this truth and they have a certain life style that rejects the mark of the beast and the name of the beast and the number of the beast and the image of the beast. And they reject adultery and they reject Sabbath breaking. And they reject the pharisaical prayers in church, standing in front of the congregation. The true lovers of God KNEEL and ADORE HIM says David.
They have a certain way to worship God according to the way he says to worship. They must worship in spirit and in truth according to the word of God. [“Elohim is spirit, and the ones worshiping him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:24.]
 
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H

haz

Guest
Jesus will change me totally and more and more as each day goes by.
We both agree here.

Where we diverge though is when you start bringing in the law and preach condemnation for those who do not obey it when allegedly convicted by the Holy Spirit to do so.

Consider your quote below.
So am I correct in saying that you believe that we can go on sinning and simply not condemned for it if we have faith in Jesus?
Here you reveal your belief that condemnation is required for any Christian who does not obey the law, even though they're not even under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9).

See you see that Faith without works is dead.
Jesus was asked what works we should do, John 6:28.
He answered "believe on him whom He hath sent", John 6:29.
There's our works.

But you wrongly include works of the law, which is contrary to scripture.
Note Gal 3:12, "The law is not of faith,"
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
Name one bad thing about the law?
why would he do away with it?
silliness
that is our guide if we are on the right track or if we are pharisees

JESUS TALKS LET US LISTEN NOW!
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

that is for me and you

believe it

do it by faith

faith is obeying that is faith
 
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2Thewaters

Guest
We dont want to be pharisees who tried to do the law

we want our righteousness to EXCEED the righteousness of the pharisees by actually KEEPING EVERY LAW AND COMMANDMENT by divine power
being born again

You must be born again nicodemous and God will write the ten commandments on your heart so you will love them and think on them all the time.

he will take the hatred of obedience to God out of your heart.
just pray
he will do it today.
 
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2Thewaters

Guest
1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.


1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1 John 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1 John 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
 
L

Linda70

Guest
2Thewaters...

Your bolded red font is extremely hard on my eyes. Would you mind using a "softer" color? Also, what is your reason for bolding your entire post? (#306)

BTW...are you still under a schoolmaster? (Galatians 3:24-25).
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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I did not say that. But if you claim to listen to Jesus you should listen to Jesus as He commissioned Paul a minister to the Gentiles.
Or do you disbelieve Jesus?
I do believe Paul was commissioned by Christ. What I don't believe is that Paul's message EVER contradicts what Christ said. Christ is the ultimate authority and if there seems to be a question about what Paul say, it has to be harmonized with Christ's teachings, not vice-versa.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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For instance, I'm done cleaning my house for the next day. No laundry, bills, finances, dishes, etc. It's a time to set apart for God and intentional service to Him. Can I serve Him in all those other things? Or course. But this is to be a day that is different from all the others.
I find it interesting that those who label Sabbath keepers as legalists are the ones who take an extremely legalistic approach to the Sabbath.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Your understanding of what scripture tells us of faith is flawed. It includes keeping the commandments. Without works I is dead. If you have faith in all the Savior says, you will be able to act on it. If you can't act on what the Savior says it is because of lack of faith.
And if I may add...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
(Luke 11: 46). Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" did not do any works of keeping the law/10 commandments. Yet he is in paradise with Christ.
First of all, he is not in paradise yet but that is another topic.

This illustrates exactly what I have been saying. Works, Law keeping, obedience does not justify or save a person...

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

the above scripture gets a lot of press but there is more to the story...

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

BUT, according to what you say above, that thief is dead because he had no works of the law.
You contradict what Jesus said to that thief.
apparently you have not read the passage very critically...

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

This has been discussed before but here we go again...

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

When? When Christ comes into His Kingdom. When is that?

Luk 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

They, the disciples, thought the Kingdom would appear immediately. Christ then gave them a parable. Why? Because He was imparting to them the understanding that the Kingdom would NOT appear immediately. If the Kingdom was to begin immediately, He would simply have left the subject alone.

Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

The Nobleman is Christ, the far country is heaven and He is returning to the earth. This passage gets misquoted a lot...

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Christ is returning and will set up the Kingdom at His return, at the resurrection...

Dan 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
Dan 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
Dan 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Happens at the time of the end, the time when the Beast and the ten kings are destroyed...

Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

That thief on the cross is God's example to us that we're saved by grace, and not be works of the law.
I am pretty sure no one here has been teaching that we are saved by works of the Law, but some are teaching that Lawlessness is what Christ came to bring...

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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If any, what was the law of commandments that Jesus and the apostles laid out through the inspiration of the Spirit that we have as NT believers?
Uh, what are the Commandments and who gave them?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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The law keepers have a problem with the following passage...

Rom 2:12-27

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Hmmm, so Law BREAKERS are justified here?
 
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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
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The law keepers have a problem with the following passage...

Rom 2:12-27

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
So BradC, let me ask you a question, how do you feel about lying, murder and adultery? If you don't do these things, you are a Law keeper!
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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10 If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

11 These things have I spoken to you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

12 This is my commandment, That you love one another, as I have loved you.

13 Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

14 You are my friends, if you do whatever I command you.
Mat 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Which Commandments? That question was already asked about 2000 years ago...

Mat 19:18 He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, " 'YOU SHALL NOT MURDER,' 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,' 'YOU SHALL NOT STEAL,' 'YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS,'
Mat 19:19 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER,' and, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' "

And Christ answered by showing He was speaking of the Ten Commandments.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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If keeping the law is seen with a carnal mind, then the mindset is wrong for the law is spiritual. Those that speak against the law are also of a carnal mind because they cannot see its spiritual relevance for today.
If I may add to your cogent comment, a carnal mind CANNOT keep the Law...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
 
B

BradC

Guest
Your understanding of what scripture tells us of faith is flawed. It includes keeping the commandments. Without works I is dead. If you have faith in all the Savior says, you will be able to act on it. If you can't act on what the Savior says it is because of lack of faith.
The Savior says to you and I and every believer to go into all the world to be witnesses unto Him, to preach the gospel and make disciples. Can you act upon that by going or being a part of a ministry that is obeying that command? You nor JaumeJ can deny that Jesus not only commanded and sent His disciples to go but also asked them to pray to the Lord of the harvest to send laborers into the field because they are few. Are we not commanded to be co-laborers in the gospel and ambassadors for Christ? Will you take up your cross and follow Christ into all the world with the promise of going with us, even unto the ends of the earth? Is it a good work to bring God's salvation to sinful man and by doing so, do we show our faith by this good work? He that winneth souls is wise, so winning the lost to Christ is the wisdom of God. He that corrects a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.