Bible discussion, Anyone else think........?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
1,841
410
83
39
#21
Translation requires interpretation.

But my point was that even in Christ, we don't all have the same understanding of "truth."
This is true, but at the same time I am truly learning to trust God to work in others the same way He has worked in me. My beliefs on many things are WAY different than when I was first born again, and I KNOW how He worked in me to bring me to where I'm at, and that He has filled me with an unbelievable longing to draw closer to Him, and a excitement to see what He's going to do today, everyday I wake up with His Spirit. There are truths that cannot be debated concerning salvation through Jesus, no doubt, but I truly feel most the hottest button issues people spend so much time and effort debating about (me being the worlds worst), are truly things that God will open our eye too as we walk with and get closer to Him, and we are to do this in love. I always hear people talking about helping get others misconceptions fixed for them, but very little talk about listening, nothing about actually hungering to learn more. We are so quick to correct, yet so slow to listen. I could have sworn I read something about this in a book somewhere. :p

Anyway that's my take for what it's worth. I pray you all have a great day and proclaim Jesus name with boldness every opportunity He blesses us with today, I pray this all in Jesus mighty name. Amen.
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
4,418
1,628
113
#22
It is the verse that follows that provides the clarity of what the proceeding verse was really stating and provided the proper context so as to be understood.
That's what I was thinking when I saw this thread, and I was going to post this-but then I saw a squirreo!
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
4,418
1,628
113
#23
Just in case anyone was wondering-a squirreo is a squirrel made out of oreos!
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
3,530
532
113
#25
Translation requires interpretation.

But my point was that even in Christ, we don't all have the same understanding of "truth."
Not to the point of explaining away the truth. The truth offends, it hurts, but it can also exhort and heal. It is what it is but who wants to offend someone when your trying to Point them to Jesus.
Case in point if a preacher or evangelist step up to the pulpit to make a point they should never speak. That's not how it's done.
But so many have their curriculum laid out for them that even though they speak from the bible the word of God is never preached.
 

AxeElf

Active member
Mar 5, 2019
246
100
28
#26
Not to the point of explaining away the truth. The truth offends, it hurts, but it can also exhort and heal. It is what it is but who wants to offend someone when your trying to Point them to Jesus.
Case in point if a preacher or evangelist step up to the pulpit to make a point they should never speak. That's not how it's done.
But so many have their curriculum laid out for them that even though they speak from the bible the word of God is never preached.
This makes no sense to me; sorry.
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
3,530
532
113
#29
Romans 3:10-12 English Standard Version (ESV)
10 as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
3,530
532
113
#30
Psalm 14:1-3 English Standard Version (ESV)
The Fool Says, There Is No God
To the choirmaster. Of David.
14 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds;
there is none who does good.
2 The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man,
to see if there are any who understand,[a]
who seek after God.
3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
there is none who does good,
not even one.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
1,841
410
83
39
#31
Disagree.
Please define righteous for us...so we can discuss.
"Righteous", the way I'm understanding him to mean it here is as in being "sinless", and he is absolutely right in saying the ONLY way any of us can know righteousness is by His grace, through faith in Jesus. He explains it much better after you asked, but I was just sharing what I understood him to be saying. No man is righteous, or sinless if you will, and the only way a truly righteous and just God can work, is if His righteous wrath that abides on you is paid in full, and the wages of unrighteousness (or sin) is death. Now this debt will be paid for, and either you turn from "your way", and fall at the feet of our King Jesus the Savior of the world, to be reborn of the Spirit, and transformed from the inside out to now "WANT TO" seek Him, to love Him, and to glorify Him in your life daily, and by His power working through us to reflect His image on this world. He says we show this to the world in the way we love each other, they will know us by our fruit.

Jesus says
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

In person, and face to face it's not so much a problem for me, most of the time anyway, but online especially I want to be better, just be more careful in general to love my brothers and sisters here in a way that glorifies Jesus name better, not in ways that would shame it. Hard to do sometimes when dealing with the very nature of reality and the sharpness of the truth when confronted with it, :eek: but it's still easy to post a comment upset and before you even have time to think about it harder, or even reread the comment in question to make sure that you didn't misunderstand something. (I've been so guilty of this)
Again, and to finish up, I just want to glorify my (our/the wolds) Savior in all I do, and pray He make us all more proficient at proclaiming His GREAT news to a world that needs it, and I pray this all in Jesus name. Amen.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
4,857
1,706
113
#32
That everyone’s efforts to help someone else see scripture from how you understand it is, although lined with good intentions, it cannot do anything?

I have seriously wondered that even if I understood the bible entirely, which I don’t and, may never be able to connect all its magic in my lifetime. The reason I think this is, imagine life as a video game with lots of challenges and rewards and accomplishments. Would anyone want another to just tell them all they had to do to win the game? No, that is boring and takes out the fun. Having a cheat guide may seem useful for going through the motions but deep down, we don’t want the easy way.

1 scripture that had me wondering was:

Proverbs 5:15

15 Drink water from your own cistern,
running water from your own well.
16 Should your springs overflow in the streets,
your streams of water in the public squares?
17 Let them be yours alone,
never to be shared with strangers.

Also, I am fully aware of the many scriptures saying to help the poor (in spirit)

Thoughts?
I believe that all of the vital important wisdom comes from the Holy Spirit.. So i have asked Him many times to be told what to do to win this "Game"... So Yes i want the easy Way,, to be guided by the Holy Spirit into all understanding..

The danger of trying to figure it all out by yourself is that you will make up false stuff to fit the scriptures because they will seem like the only answer you can come up with at the time..

As for other human beings and what they have to say.. Yes i trust in no human being,, But i know that the Holy Spirit sometimes speaks to us through other people.. So i have to be mindful to take what i hear from others and compare it to the Word of God,, to put it to the scripture test.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,671
229
63
#33
Our righteousness in only found in Christ Jesus.😁
Well...?.....G-d established the basis of righteousness thru His plan of forgiveness of which Christ death on the cross..... is part of.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,671
229
63
#34
"Righteous", the way I'm understanding him to mean it here is as in being "sinless", and he is absolutely right in saying the ONLY way any of us can know righteousness is by His grace, through faith in Jesus. He explains it much better after you asked, but I was just sharing what I understood him to be saying. No man is righteous, or sinless if you will, and the only way a truly righteous and just God can work, is if His righteous wrath that abides on you is paid in full, and the wages of unrighteousness (or sin) is death. Now this debt will be paid for, and either you turn from "your way", and fall at the feet of our King Jesus the Savior of the world, to be reborn of the Spirit, and transformed from the inside out to now "WANT TO" seek Him, to love Him, and to glorify Him in your life daily, and by His power working through us to reflect His image on this world. He says we show this to the world in the way we love each other, they will know us by our fruit.

Jesus says
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

In person, and face to face it's not so much a problem for me, most of the time anyway, but online especially I want to be better, just be more careful in general to love my brothers and sisters here in a way that glorifies Jesus name better, not in ways that would shame it. Hard to do sometimes when dealing with the very nature of reality and the sharpness of the truth when confronted with it, :eek: but it's still easy to post a comment upset and before you even have time to think about it harder, or even reread the comment in question to make sure that you didn't misunderstand something. (I've been so guilty of this)
Again, and to finish up, I just want to glorify my (our/the wolds) Savior in all I do, and pray He make us all more proficient at proclaiming His GREAT news to a world that needs it, and I pray this all in Jesus name. Amen.
Consider the following thought;

We are not perfect but, by following G-d's plan of repentance and forgiveness we can and must be righteous in our commitment and life style. We must be repentant on a ongoing basis because we will sin on a ongoing basis.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
1,841
410
83
39
#35
Consider the following thought;

We are not perfect but, by following G-d's plan of repentance and forgiveness we can and must be righteous in our commitment and life style. We must be repentant on a ongoing basis because we will sin on a ongoing basis.
Well I would say it more like we will be repentant on an ongoing basis after we are born again by His power and direction, and while I agree we will still sin (I happen to be dealing with a whole heaping mess of that right now myself), we will be repentant and He will correct us, but it's ALL by His power. I can't take credit by saying "I" stay repentant, it's much more His Spirit that keeps me focused on Him and able to see the wrong I can change about myself to better reflect His glory onto the world. So I would not say "we can and must be righteous in our commitment and life style", I would say "we can", but only by His power and by His Spirit inside us, and with Him we will be that way. When you add "must" it's like you imply that it's by our own steam that we "behave", like it's something we have to make ourselves do. This was just how I understand what you wrote, if I'm misunderstood you then my apologies.

So I agree we are not perfect and will still sin, I however do not going around shouting that as a Christian, making it the "main point" of all Christianity, but it is by grace, through faith in Christ Jesus, that His righteousness it applied to us, bringing our spirit to life, and reconciling us to the Father as we were created to be. This changes us from the inside out causing us to now desire live "righteous in our commitment and life style", and having the ability to repent when we do mess up. God get's ALL credit for ALL, and the way you wrote that just seemed to put burden in the lap of the believer to preform a certain way. Regardless of all this, I pray you have a great day.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
3,043
1,184
113
#36
Well grace is given to the humble, God does resist the proud.
When discussing the Bible one must be willing to check ones pride at the door. After all it's His word, not yours.
 
Mar 3, 2019
64
6
8
#37
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other, Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

What Jesus says is, working for money and serving God is not possible. Yes I am saying if you work for a paycheck and you say you serve God, you are disobeying what Jesus says. Jesus says...in Luke 12:22-34

Do Not Worry or Be Fearful
And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what he shall eat; neither for the body, what he shall put on. The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment. Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls? And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit? If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take thought for the rest?

To explain Luke 12:22-26
The ravens don’t have jobs or houses, yet God provides everything they need, aren’t you worth much more than these creatures? And who can add more years to themselves? Or there life? Why worry about such things when you can’t even do anything about the least of all these? (Food, shelter, clothes).

Luke 12:27-31 (Continued)
Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and tomorrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. But rather seek first the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I believe Jesus makes it very clear on what we need to do as Christians, stop serving money (stop working for money, quit your job) stop worrying where your going to get your next meal, or where you are going to sleep, Jesus says the world worry’s about such things, you are not supposed to be a part of this world. Stop relying on money, using money is ok, but working for it is not. Stop putting your faith in a worldly system and preach the Gospel full time, listen to Jesus.

The second to last verse Luke 12:33
Sell what you have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

Do you see what Jesus is saying? Every single Christian did what Jesus commands. There was no special person who didn’t sell all and leave everything, preaching the gospel 24/7. Your job is to preach his word, and he gives you the essentials you need. 1 Timothy 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

Assumption #1- Jesus was never a carpenter the only verse you can see is his father being a carpenter in Mark 6:3. Jesus started preaching when he was 12 Year’s old according to scripture, in Luke 42-49. He never served (worked for) money, he did use money though, his treasurer was Judas (the one who betrayed him).

Definition of Forsaketh according to Jesus is found in all the gospels, but I am going to use Mark 10:17-21 for this claim.

And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

The definition is clear consistently through all 4 of the gospels. The Word of God has spoken and commands this as a requirement to inherit eternal life with him. Jesus Christ has the ultimate authority in the Bible, the Old Testament does not teach us how to live as Christ did, that is why the New Testament (Jesus Christ’s teachings more importantly) applies to us, hence forth New Testament. Notice Jesus told him he LACKED one thing, now you can say this only applies to the rich man, but that is a lie. It applies to everyone that truly loves Jesus. In the rest of the scripture, right around Luke 14:33 Jesus addressed the entire multitude of people, rich and poor, women, children all kinds of people. Here it is.

-The Cost of Discipleship- Luke 14:25-27
And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Reflecting of Luke 14:33-Acts 2:45-47 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man hath need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Reflecting of Luke 14:33 again, Matthew 13:44-46

-The Treasure and the Goodly Pearl-
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

These are the commands of Jesus in a parable, the man sold everything to inherit eternal life. Now I have heard the arguments against what Jesus commands, the biggest one is people want to point to Paul and say he has a higher authority than God in the flesh and they say, “Paul worked as a tent maker!” So sense he worked for money it’s ok. Really? I would recommend that you only follow Jesus and what he says. But let’s take a look at this argument.

Acts 18:3-5
And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by there occupation they were tentmakers. And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ. And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

Paul worked at making tents with a couple other Jews while preaching the gospel, but reading it in the entire context, two other disciples came along and he was pricked in his spirit and decided to leave to preach the Gospel full time once again. Now this passage does not say he labored (worked, served) for money, all it says was he was creating tents, even if he did work for money, he soon told his fellow tent makers that Jesus was Christ and they rejected him, so he left to a brothers house to tell him the good news instead and was received there.

Another passage of scripture people use as a excuse to not obey Jesus is....

1 Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
This is taking scripture out of context, the title of this section of verses is called...

-Provisions for Widows-
Verses 5:1-10 the last verse says “Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she has longed strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

Let’s compare Jesus teachings with 1 Timothy 5:10, then we can understand what 5:8 means.

“Brought up children”...- Matthew 18:5 “And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.”’ “If she hath lodged strangers”...Luke 14:13 “But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind. (The first Christians utilized money to rent a place or stayed at someone else’s place if invited in. Matthew 10:14). “If she have washed the saints’ feet”-Matthew 22:32 “But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren” (I believe this applies to every follower of Jesus, that we should strengthen each other). “If she have relieved the afflicted,”...Mark 16:17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues.”

This explains that Timothy was simply obeying Jesus Christ’s commands, including the widows. Now 1 Timothy 5:8 is saying work as in working to build Jesus Christ’s kingdom, working serving Jesus and obeying his commands. Not serving money. When you deny the faith, what it is really saying is your denying that God will provide all your needs when preaching the word full time without having money or anything else for that matter. If you don’t have faith in what Jesus says, how in the world do you believe he’s going to resurrect you from the dead? There is no room for Luke warm Christians. You either listen to Jesus or you will be grinded to powder. Jesus says they would reject the corner stone of his teachings. This is essentiall and required by every follower of Christ.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,671
229
63
#38
Well I would say it more like we will be repentant on an ongoing basis after we are born again by His power and direction, and while I agree we will still sin (I happen to be dealing with a whole heaping mess of that right now myself), we will be repentant and He will correct us, but it's ALL by His power. I can't take credit by saying "I" stay repentant, it's much more His Spirit that keeps me focused on Him and able to see the wrong I can change about myself to better reflect His glory onto the world. So I would not say "we can and must be righteous in our commitment and life style", I would say "we can", but only by His power and by His Spirit inside us, and with Him we will be that way. When you add "must" it's like you imply that it's by our own steam that we "behave", like it's something we have to make ourselves do. This was just how I understand what you wrote, if I'm misunderstood you then my apologies.

So I agree we are not perfect and will still sin, I however do not going around shouting that as a Christian, making it the "main point" of all Christianity, but it is by grace, through faith in Christ Jesus, that His righteousness it applied to us, bringing our spirit to life, and reconciling us to the Father as we were created to be. This changes us from the inside out causing us to now desire live "righteous in our commitment and life style", and having the ability to repent when we do mess up. God get's ALL credit for ALL, and the way you wrote that just seemed to put burden in the lap of the believer to preform a certain way. Regardless of all this, I pray you have a great day.
Our hearts must be right with G-d. We must be repentant on an ongoing basis because we sin. G-d knows that and it is the reason He give us unlimited times of forgiveness.
Thank G-d!!!
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,568
407
83
#39
That everyone’s efforts to help someone else see scripture from how you understand it is, although lined with good intentions, it cannot do anything?

I have seriously wondered that even if I understood the bible entirely, which I don’t and, may never be able to connect all its magic in my lifetime. The reason I think this is, imagine life as a video game with lots of challenges and rewards and accomplishments. Would anyone want another to just tell them all they had to do to win the game? No, that is boring and takes out the fun. Having a cheat guide may seem useful for going through the motions but deep down, we don’t want the easy way.

1 scripture that had me wondering was:

Proverbs 5:15

15 Drink water from your own cistern,
running water from your own well.
16 Should your springs overflow in the streets,
your streams of water in the public squares?
17 Let them be yours alone,
never to be shared with strangers.

Also, I am fully aware of the many scriptures saying to help the poor (in spirit)

Thoughts?
We are all aware that the established church today has evolved through different ages with different doctrines popular in those ages. In the dark ages the doctrine of the church was that people went to church, understood none of it, loved war and thought farming was for he lowly. Luther changed things, but it was OK to murder a Jew for that Jew had killed Christ. Now there are hundreds of different doctrines we discuss with each other but only one truth.

The dead sea scrolls opened up a lot of knowledge about truth that got lost with time, scholars are sifting through the information and there has been a change in some doctrines accepting truths this history discovered. It is very slow, but happening because we discuss and think about the doctrines and test where they came from, and test them with scripture. Discussion is necessary.