Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security' -by Gregg Jackson

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FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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When you don't believe God is able to choose whom HE wills, you have put God in a poorly constructed box.
On what basis do you make such a poor judgment of what I believe or not? Of course God chooses whom He wants/wills.

And the Bible tells us who God chooses to save. 1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

So, God chooses to save believers. That pleases Him.

Acts 13:48 "When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."
The Greek word for "appointed" is 'tasso' and comes from the military and means "to line up". This is not God doing the lining up. From the context, we see that "nearly the whole town gathered" in v.44. " On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord." There was great interest in what Paul was teaching. The Gentiles did their own lining up. The voice in Greek can either be middle or passive. V.44 shows it is middle voice.

1 Thessalonians 1:4: "knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you"
Here is context: v.3 - We remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ. The choice is for work and labor. That's service.

2 Thessalonians 2:13: "But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth"
The Greek word for "chosen" here isn't the word used for chosen' 'elect' and 'election' elsewhere. Here, the word is "haireomai", whereas elsewhere the word is eklegomai. Further, the verse is about HOW chooses people for salvation, which is "through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth". This is parallel to 1 Cor 1:21. God is pleased to save those who believe.

The Bible never says or implies that God chooses who will believe, which is the real foundation of reformed doctrine of election.

Romans 8:28: "And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are the called according to His purpose. For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also, along with Him, freely give us all things? Who will bring any charge against God’s elect?"
Does any verse say that God chooses who will believe? No. And election isn't found here.

Ephesians 1:1-11: "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ. In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything"
Let's just focus on v.4. The word "us" refers to believers, as defined in v.19 with "us who believe'.

So, v.4 actually says "God chose believers...to be holy and blameless". That's service.

Consider 1 Cor 1-
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised thingsand the things that are notto nullify the things that are,

The red words are what God has chosen (elected).
The blue words are what God's election is FOR; service.

Not a hint of salvation here.
 

SomeDisciple

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Jul 4, 2021
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So how does eternal security people explain Galatians 5:4, being "fallen from grace". "Christ is become of no effect to you". Doesn't this clearly describe someone who had grace previously, and then doesn't.
 
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On what basis do you make such a poor judgment of what I believe or not? Of course God chooses whom He wants/wills.

And the Bible tells us who God chooses to save. 1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

So, God chooses to save believers. That pleases Him.


The Greek word for "appointed" is 'tasso' and comes from the military and means "to line up". This is not God doing the lining up. From the context, we see that "nearly the whole town gathered" in v.44. " On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord." There was great interest in what Paul was teaching. The Gentiles did their own lining up. The voice in Greek can either be middle or passive. V.44 shows it is middle voice.


Here is context: v.3 - We remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ. The choice is for work and labor. That's service.


The Greek word for "chosen" here isn't the word used for chosen' 'elect' and 'election' elsewhere. Here, the word is "haireomai", whereas elsewhere the word is eklegomai. Further, the verse is about HOW chooses people for salvation, which is "through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth". This is parallel to 1 Cor 1:21. God is pleased to save those who believe.

The Bible never says or implies that God chooses who will believe, which is the real foundation of reformed doctrine of election.


Does any verse say that God chooses who will believe? No. And election isn't found here.


Let's just focus on v.4. The word "us" refers to believers, as defined in v.19 with "us who believe'.

So, v.4 actually says "God chose believers...to be holy and blameless". That's service.

Consider 1 Cor 1-
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised thingsand the things that are notto nullify the things that are,

The red words are what God has chosen (elected).
The blue words are what God's election is FOR; service.

Not a hint of salvation here.
Amen, God does indeed choose whom He wants/wills, including whom he wants/wills to believe, ergo God elects.

"Whatever may be said about the doctrine of election, it is written in the Word of God as with an iron pen, and there is no getting rid of it." C. H. Spurgeon.

God saved an unbeliever named Saul of Tarsus. God elected Saul before Saul believed. As a result of Saul's election, God's saved Saul before he believed. It is the sovereign power of God that converts the unbeliever to a believer, and it is by God's sovereign grace that we are saved through faith. No one comes to belief and is saved without the conviction that first comes from the Holy Spirit.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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FreeGrace2 said:
Don't mean to rock your boat, but election isn't about salvation. Election is about service.

Eph 1:4 says God chooses believers. To be holy and blameless. That's service. The "us" in v.4 is clearly defined in v.19, "us who believe".

Now, God does choose unbelievers for service as well. John 6;70,71

It seems you didn't look up any of the verses I cited. Which prove what I have said.
I did look it up

but you missed some

he also chose us to be conformed to Hs image, to be his children, to justified sanctified and in the end glorified.
 
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So how does eternal security people explain Galatians 5:4, being "fallen from grace". "Christ is become of no effect to you". Doesn't this clearly describe someone who had grace previously, and then doesn't.
It means they fell from what could have saved them

how can you fall from eternal life? That would be conditional lfe
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
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I'm sorry to say this, but what you've written is in total opposition to Scripture. For some reason, "pastors" don't teach Colossians 2:9-15 . . . but I'm showing you now. I hope you take heed . . . Salvation depends on the Right Hand of God . . . the Circumcision of Jesus Christ. I hope that you receive these verses as not from me, but from the Bible. If you don't like the NLT, the KJV gives a remarkable translation as well. The KJV and NLT together show what these Seven Perfect verses are about. I hope they penetrate your heart! I care about you.

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

(Colossians 2:8-15) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. {9} For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. {10} And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: {11} In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: {12} Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. {13} And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; {14} Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; {15} And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

In that passage of Colossians 2:8-15, Paul talks about some of the things which happened to us at Salvation. The Spiritual circumcision made without hands. Where our Soul was cut loose from our body of flesh. And then Paul talks about our Position where we are complete in Christ. He goes on to say that we are buried with Him in baptism, and risen with Him also through the faith of the operation of God. This also concerns our Position and Standing in Christ.


If I were you, I'd be making an appointment with the pastor of your church and asking him or her why it is that they haven't taught you the True Gospel.

My pastor and I know the true Gospel, 2TimothyGroup.


Romans 2:27-29 NLT - "In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God's law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God's law but don't obey it. For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."


These things are not undone. No one goes from being uncircumcised, to Circumcised, back to uncircumcised. This is a one way street!

Well our Standing and Position can not be undone. It is irrevocable. It cannot change. Our Position (Standing) is as perfect and holy as God (Jesus Christ) our Lord is. And our Position (Standing) is as perfect and holy as the Holy Scripture (the King James Holy Bible) is. Hence, nothing can change our Position (Salvation). However though, a Christian can choose to go back to the flesh and he can go back to his old life of sin.


Ezekiel 36:25-27 KJV - Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."


Deuteronomy 30:6 KJV - "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."
Ezekiel 36 is a passage dealing with Israel, God’s physical covenant people. And so is Deuteronomy 30.


Hebrews 8:7-13 KJV - "For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

I believe in you 100%.

Once again brother, this passage of Scripture that you quoted (Hebrews 8:7-13) is dealing with God’s physical covenant people, the house of Israel and the House of Judah. This is who the New Covenant is made with. God makes this new covenant with Israel and Judah and not with the Church. Context is Key, brother. And as they say, Context is king.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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When I try to resist. This is what God does to me..
If you refuse to repent, He allows you to go. He will not drag you into Heaven by the seat of your pant, We are to remain faithful. He will keep us so long as we allow Him to. He will never leave us or forsake us, but marriage is a two way street. We are kept by faithfulness, not force.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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Beware, brethen, some people will steer their posts simply to win or to look like they're winning. That's their agenda. BMOC never loses.
All the Lord asks of us is to keep posting truth. Remember Jeremiah. Very few listened to Truth in his day, but he kept his eye on the prize. Godspeed(y).
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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(Colossians 2:8-15) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. {9} For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. {10} And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: {11} In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: {12} Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. {13} And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; {14} Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; {15} And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

In that passage of Colossians 2:8-15, Paul talks about some of the things which happened to us at Salvation. The Spiritual circumcision made without hands. Where our Soul was cut loose from our body of flesh. And then Paul talks about our Position where we are complete in Christ. He goes on to say that we are buried with Him in baptism, and risen with Him also through the faith of the operation of God. This also concerns our Position and Standing in Christ.




My pastor and I know the true Gospel, 2TimothyGroup.





Well our Standing and Position can not be undone. It is irrevocable. It cannot change. Our Position (Standing) is as perfect and holy as God (Jesus Christ) our Lord is. And our Position (Standing) is as perfect and holy as the Holy Scripture (the King James Holy Bible) is. Hence, nothing can change our Position (Salvation). However though, a Christian can choose to go back to the flesh and he can go back to his old life of sin.




Ezekiel 36 is a passage dealing with Israel, God’s physical covenant people. And so is Deuteronomy 30.




Once again brother, this passage of Scripture that you quoted (Hebrews 8:7-13) is dealing with God’s physical covenant people, the house of Israel and the House of Judah. This is who the New Covenant is made with. God makes this new covenant with Israel and Judah and not with the Church. Context is Key, brother. And as they say, Context is king.
Wow. That is very cool that you and your pastor have a good understanding of Circumcision of the Heart. And I hear what you are saying about those covenants between the Lord and the House of Israel. But . . . and I think that you'll appreciate this . . . Paul defines what a "True Jew" is, and it is one whose Heart has been changed by God, the Spirit, and Christ. Check this out . . .

Romans 2:27-29 NLT - "In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God's law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God's law but don't obey it. For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."

Salvation depends on a New Heart and Spirit, therefore, Ezekiel 11, 36, Deut 30, and many more, are not dependent upon the blood of Jews, but of the Incorruptible Seed of Christ. We must go a little bit deeper and further. Jesus said that there is neither Greek nor Jew, male nor female, and this is because of the Holy Work of Christ, exactly as it is described in Ezekiel 36:25-27.

Galatians 3:28 KJV - "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Those Old Testament Prophesies that you are saying are for the House of Israel alone . . . incorrect. These are the Promises and Blessings that the Lord established through the Lives of Abraham and Sarah . . . and they are for us all.

Again, it is refreshing to read that your pastor is teaching the Gospel of Christ. Unbelievable. And thank you for letting me know . . . for the Remnant is awfully small!
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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I am in-between if a person can loose their salvation or not.
I have always maintained that one cannot "lose" their salvation, but that they can cast it away. The Scriptures say this in many places. We must abide in the Vine. This is not a hard thing. Jesus requires us to love God and our neighbor. He will keep us so long as we do not harden our hearts, and refuse to repent when we stumble. Pride is a very dangerous thing.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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If you refuse to repent, He allows you to go. He will not drag you into Heaven by the seat of your pant, We are to remain faithful. He will keep us so long as we allow Him to. He will never leave us or forsake us, but marriage is a two way street. We are kept by faithfulness, not force.
I never said otherwise

he allowed me to go. But it was not easy, he brought me to my knees, just like Jonah, he left me with 2 choices. Return to him (my best friend who I had not heard from in a few years called me at just the right time) or commit suicide, which I was contemplating

i could have died (Sin unto death) but even if I did, my father would have come to get me

he never leaves his own. No earthly father would, I am offended people think the Heavenly Father would and I am sure he is also
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Amen on that. The leavers left.
They left to PROVE or expose the fact. THEY WERE NEVER OF US

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

none of them were of us

quite clear
 
Mar 14, 2011
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All the Lord asks of us is to keep posting truth. Remember Jeremiah. Very few listened to Truth in his day, but he kept his eye on the prize. Godspeed(y).
One thing we need to do is be open minded. I thought I had truth for years if I remained closed minded I would still be stuck in legalistic prison
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I have always maintained that one cannot "lose" their salvation, but that they can cast it away. The Scriptures say this in many places. We must abide in the Vine. This is not a hard thing. Jesus requires us to love God and our neighbor. He will keep us so long as we do not harden our hearts, and refuse to repent when we stumble. Pride is a very dangerous thing.
Yes pride is dangerous, it is the root of sin, there is no sin apart from pride

but God said those who stop believing and now deny Christ were never of us,

we should take God at his word, and not in pride keep resisting this truth.

you can’t leave God., where ever we go. god is there, we can’t hide from God, and he promised he would never leave us nor forsake us, he promised no one can snatch us from his hands,

if younhad your child in your hand and he wanted to jump off the highest cliff and kill himself would you let go because he has free will or will you hold on because you love him.

I always ask myself, Is God a father greater than our human parents or worse?

I can only come to one answer, he is far better,
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
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So how does eternal security people explain Galatians 5:4, being "fallen from grace". "Christ is become of no effect to you". Doesn't this clearly describe someone who had grace previously, and then doesn't.
Ok, sure.

1. "fallen from grace" means the believer has offended God and is out of fellowship, and needs to get back in through confession of sin.

2. "Christ is become of no effect to you" is another way of indicating being out of fellowship. When a spouse (or child) offends the other spouse or parent, the fellowship between them is strained to lost.

When a spouse offends the other, they have lost fellowship with their spouse. And need to fix it.

I use the examples of married couples and parent-child because the Bible uses both as examples of the spiritual world.
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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Amen, God does indeed choose whom He wants/wills, including whom he wants/wills to believe, ergo God elects.
Ergo, no. show me a verse that shows God causing anyone to believe, or choosing anyone to believe.

Did you read 1 Cor 1:27,28? It speaks of who God chooses, and the purpose of each choice. And NONE of them speak about salvation.

"Whatever may be said about the doctrine of election, it is written in the Word of God as with an iron pen, and there is no getting rid of it." C. H. Spurgeon.
So? Was he divine? No. He was a Calvinist and has Calvinist opinions.

God saved an unbeliever named Saul of Tarsus.
No He didn't. He saves those who believe. 1 Cor 1:21 says so.

God elected Saul before Saul believed.
Acts 9:15 is extremely clear. The Lord told Ananias that Paul was His "chosen INSTRUMENT" to carry the gospel to the Gentiles.

You cannot prove from any verse that Paul was chosen to believe. It is an errant opinion.

As a result of Saul's election, God's saved Saul before he believed.
That would be impossible. And that's the exact problem with Calvinistic conclusions. They are totally unbiblical.

Paul himself told the jailer what the jailer MUST DO to be saved. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you WILL be saved."

If Calvinism's claims were correct, Paul's answer could not have been what he did write. Instead, it would have to be something like this: "Salvation is by election of God. If He has chosen you from before the foundation of the world, you ARE saved. Otherwise, there is nothing you can to to be saved. It's all in God's hands and choice. Sorry."

It is the sovereign power of God that converts the unbeliever to a believer,
Then please find a verse that says this.

and it is by God's sovereign grace that we are saved through faith.
Do you know where faith/believing comes from?

No one comes to belief and is saved without the conviction that first comes from the Holy Spirit.
Right. Now that is biblical. (y)

But people can resist conviction. Acts 7:51.

And conviction isn't forced belief, as it seems you think.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
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I did look it up
but you missed some
I didn't intend to give you EVERY verse about the purpose of election. Just some to prove that the purpose is for service.

Can you provide any verse that says election is to salvation? No, there aren't any.

he also chose us to be conformed to Hs image, to be his children, to justified sanctified and in the end glorified.
The "us" here refers to believers. So, yes, God does choose believers to be conformed to His image, to be justified, and to glorify Him.

And all this is about service. :)