Blessed or Cursed?

[WomanLovesTX]

I'll make one further (pg) comment on this.
Back in '74 the Lord had delivered me from drugs, witchcraft, the occult, sexual promiscuity,compulsive gambling,and from nearly being a total basket mental case etc. etc., as well as granting me His Holy Spirit changing one from hating and hiding to loving God. He did this out of sheer grace and absolutely no law keeping on my part.

Same here. I accepted Jesus as my Saviour without keeping the laws. I study the Word daily, searching to understand my part in making Him my Lord. The conclusion is that the whole Bible is still relevant today and there is only One Body in Christ. As pointed out by another, in the last days we find those who are keeping the commandments and have faith in Jesus. The law is not bad. The law is God's governmental house rules. Kingdoms have rulers and rules and subjects to the ruler and the rules.

Remember, Jesus forgave our "past sins", and because the law is defined as the Torah instructions, we must study them because a life of obedience is sweet to our Lord.

We are to practice obedience in this life so that we may qualify to serve in the Kingdom as Kings and Lords. But if we cannot follow instructions now, there is no eternal crown later.

1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

no sense in giving what is holy to dogs, or casting pearls before swine. They will attempt to have you for lunch ov'r and ov'r again.

I don't have that kind of heart. I am where I am today because others prayed for me to receive truth. All I can do is the same and pray for others, that they may grow and be strengthened in the Lord. I can't call a man a dog. I don't want to be like the Pharisees who would not associate with anyone who was not in their "group".

Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

I might be wrong, but as long as Jesus tarries, there is still hope for all people to come into the faith of Christ. I know the Word says not all will, but I can't judge who will or will not. For now the wheat and tares must grow together and at the harvest they will be separated. Jesus is our example of who He hung with. They didn't fully understand Christ teaching until they received the Holy Spirit. Same today. We cannot fully understand without the law being written on our hearts.

In the meantime, iron sharpens iron. These debates and discussions are healthy, in my opinion.

Now one other thing is Christ's last commandment before He ascended to heaven. Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus said teach them to observe all things that I have commanded you. What did Jesus command? He showed us the true way to observe Torah, not by just the letter or with added commandments as the Pharisee and Saducee did, but understanding the spirit of the law.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Remember, Jesus forgave our "past sins", and because the law is defined as the Torah instructions, we must study them because a life of obedience is sweet to our Lord.

This is the delusion that you and skinski labor under. The forgiveness of past sins pertains to those sins committed under the old covenant, not your sins before you were saved.

We are now under a new covenant where sin is defined as unbelief and hate.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

This is the delusion that you and skinski labor under. The forgiveness of past sins pertains to those sins committed under the old covenant, not your sins before you were saved.

We are now under a new covenant where sin is defined as unbelief and hate.

Wrong! Sin is not defined as unbelief and hate.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Wrong! Sin is not defined as unbelief and hate.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

This is [GOD's] commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1 John 3:23

 

[WomanLovesTX]

This is [GOD's] commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1 John 3:23

Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deu 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deu 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Deu 18:19 Whoever doesn't listen to my words, which he will speak in my name, will have to account for himself to me.

Act 3:22 For Moshe himself said, 'Adonai will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You are to listen to everything he tells you.
Act 3:23 Everyone who fails to listen to that prophet will be removed from the people and destroyed.'

 

[Bookends]

Same here. I accepted Jesus as my Saviour without keeping the laws. I study the Word daily, searching to understand my part in making Him my Lord. The conclusion is that the whole Bible is still relevant today (NOT IN FAITH AND PRACTICE; added by me, bookends) and there is only One Body in Christ. As pointed out by another, in the last days we find those who are keeping the commandments and have faith in Jesus. The law is not bad. The law is God's governmental house rules. Kingdoms have rulers and rules and subjects to the ruler and the rules.

Remember, Jesus forgave our "past sins", and because the law is defined as the Torah instructions, we must study them because a life of obedience is sweet to our Lord.

We are to practice obedience in this life so that we may qualify to serve in the Kingdom as Kings and Lords. But if we cannot follow instructions now, there is no eternal crown later.

1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

ok, so what is passing away? Hebrews 8:13
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

ok, so what is passing away? Hebrews 8:13
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

A New Priesthood is the New covenant. The Old covenant was under the Levitical priesthood.

Please read pdf: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/...7-4de2-4d8d-922d-ccd4a82bb1a9/Hebrews_7_8.pdf

 

[zone]

A New Priesthood is the New covenant. The Old covenant was under the Levitical priesthood.

Please read pdf: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/...7-4de2-4d8d-922d-ccd4a82bb1a9/Hebrews_7_8.pdf

Chapter 7
1) Melchizedek is a priestly order that is forever, and even Abraham tithed to him (therefore the point is established that he is greater than Abraham)

2) The Levitical priesthood system was not perfect. That in of itself was a serious problem, and now the problem at hand has been well established.

3) The former was set aside, as the law could not make us perfect. Because of this, imperfect beings were in administration of the High Priest duties and another solution was obviously necessary. The problem at hand has been clarified more.

4) The author of Hebrews establishes that the Lord does not change His mind, and Yeshua (Jesus), being worthy, as established earlier, can be the perfect SOLUTION to the “imperfect man” priesthood PROBLEM. This in fact means that there is not a problem with the law, as some imply, but the problem is directly related to the “who” is in administration as the High Priest, which was imperfect man. The context is sealed in cement here.

5) This is a permanent solution, as He continuously makes intercession for us in the eternal priestly system. From this point on, we will always have a perfect priestly administration system and will never revert back to a priestly system operated by imperfect man.

6) This was always the plan, and it is established again that Yeshua (Jesus) is perfect, and man was not, thus the logic behind the change that has been foretold at least since the law was written.


https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/...7-4de2-4d8d-922d-ccd4a82bb1a9/Hebrews_7_8.pdf


there's NO END to this!!!

so sinful man in GENERAL - all men sinned - is not the problem.
NO - it was the priesthood.

Galatians 5:12
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

 

[Angela53510]

You seem to have forgotten a few things, OP.

For instance, there is:

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. [SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, [SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ [SUP]44 [/SUP]Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ [SUP]45 [/SUP]Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ [SUP]46 [/SUP]And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matt. 25:41-46.

Jesus takes very seriously how we care for the weak, the hurting and the stranger. If you are going to keep the Torah, this is echoed in the Old Testament in many places.

“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, [SUP]8 [/SUP]but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be." Deut. 15:7-8

"You shall give to him freely, and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you,‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’ Deut. 15:10-11

I always wonder if HR people remember these verses?

As for keeping the law, are you talking the Levitical Laws, like not wearing clothing made of two fibers, or eating shellfish and pork?

Or just the 10 commandments? Those might be good, for a start, but you will fail without the knowledge of the New Testament and walking with Christ. It is the Holy Spirit who enables us to be transformed into the image of Christ, a process that won't end till we see Christ face to face.

"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appearswe shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2

And why do HR people always think that those of us who believe Jesus fulfilled the law don't read the Old Testament??

As I have said before, I spend 80% of my time reading the Old Testament, where I read amazing narratives, and prophecy and the stories of God's Old Testament people. But that doesn't make me HR in any way, shape or form. It just helps me recognize when Jesus, or Paul, or Peter or John are quoting the Old Testament, besides knowing that the Old Testament is God's Word, and how wonderful that we do NOT need to keep those 663 or whatever laws, because Christ died for all of us who could not keep them! And that is everyone!

Finally, there is no need to be antinomian just because you believe Christ fulfilled the law. That is an illogical conclusion. The closer you get to Christ, the more you want to please him. Maybe some have fallen away from Christ, and that is the reason they are so adamant about keeping the law.

I pray for all those legalists who think they need to keep the law to be saved. Because:

"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23

Isaiah also points out that it is not possible to keep the law.

"We have all become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment.
We all fade like a leaf,
and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away." Isa. 64:6

 

[crossnote]

no sense in giving what is holy to dogs, or casting pearls before swine. They will attempt to have you for lunch ov'r and ov'r again.

I've been trying to learn that lesson ov'r n ov'r again and again.

 

[crossnote]

Chapter 7
1) Melchizedek is a priestly order that is forever, and even Abraham tithed to him (therefore the point is established that he is greater than Abraham)

2) The Levitical priesthood system was not perfect. That in of itself was a serious problem, and now the problem at hand has been well established.

3) The former was set aside, as the law could not make us perfect. Because of this, imperfect beings were in administration of the High Priest duties and another solution was obviously necessary. The problem at hand has been clarified more.

4) The author of Hebrews establishes that the Lord does not change His mind, and Yeshua (Jesus), being worthy, as established earlier, can be the perfect SOLUTION to the “imperfect man” priesthood PROBLEM. This in fact means that there is not a problem with the law, as some imply, but the problem is directly related to the “who” is in administration as the High Priest, which was imperfect man. The context is sealed in cement here.

5) This is a permanent solution, as He continuously makes intercession for us in the eternal priestly system. From this point on, we will always have a perfect priestly administration system and will never revert back to a priestly system operated by imperfect man.

6) This was always the plan, and it is established again that Yeshua (Jesus) is perfect, and man was not, thus the logic behind the change that has been foretold at least since the law was written.


https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/...7-4de2-4d8d-922d-ccd4a82bb1a9/Hebrews_7_8.pdf


there's NO END to this!!!

so sinful man in GENERAL - all men sinned - is not the problem.
NO - it was the priesthood.

Galatians 5:12
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

looking at point 3 'another soluton', is that PLAN B? (tongue in cheek).

 

[Grandpa]

I don't think this can really be taught but if you knew it once you can remember... Not sure how you forgot but here's to benefit of the doubt...

Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

What does the Lord give us rest from and why does He give us this Rest?

The Lord gives us rest from our works of the law, works of iniquity. Our works at the Law never kept the commandments. Any who try, if they are honest, will tell you that they are not able to keep them perfectly.

So then why does the Lord give us Rest from our works of iniquity? To give us a new way. His Way.

John 15:3-8

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8[/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

What fruit??? What fruit glorifies the Father???

Galatians 5:22-23

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


We are not under law, we are under grace. Why? Because being under law is not how the law is kept... weird, I know.

By coming to Jesus and being under His Grace, by abiding in Him and His Love, the fruit of the Spirit is grown in us by Him. Once again, you aren't under law while you are abiding in Christ but His Spirit causes you to walk in His statutes... Not by you trying to obey laws but by you abiding in Christ.

So we that abide in Christ and don't try by our effort to work at the law are really the only ones who keep His commandments. But the credit for keeping His commandments don't go to us, because we don't work. All the credit, All the glory goes to the Lord Jesus. He makes the prophecy of Ezekiel come true in us.

So if someone says "I keep Torah". No they don't. Maybe they try but they don't keep it perfectly. Be Perfect Like Your Father in Heaven is Perfect. Abide in Christ. Have faith in Him.

Ezekiel 36:21-27

[SUP]21 [/SUP]But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


Its by the Love of God. He loved us first. Not us trying to love Him by the Law, by the command. Because if we try to love Him by the command to love Him with all our minds and strength we know we will fall short. We can't love like He Loves. But if we abide in Him maybe we can come a lot closer than we used to...

I hope this makes sense to someone...

 

[zone]

course gramps.
you gospel preacher

blessed are those whose rubber brings the Good News.

 

[psychomom]

By the Holy Spirit I am telling you Crossnote, you are a lost sheep and Christ will not stop searching for you until He has found you and brought you back into His fold.

I can't call a man a dog.

But...YOU DID.

You accused crossnote of being outside the Kingdom...a dog, an unconverted gentile, knowing nothing of the ways of God.

Has anyone else noticed these HR folks like to quote from the Gospels and The Revelation,
but miss the rest of the NT?
Oddly enough, where the heart of the Gospel is located.
(except when they're massively misinterpreting the "past sins" bit from Romans? )

 

[homwardbound]

Sin is the violation of GOD's commandments. GOD's commandments are 1) believe into Christ, and 2) love your neighbor as yourself. These are my guidelines.

I do appreciate you crossnote much

God's love through Christ is the fulfillment of the Law all law
And when one sees the love of God through the cross one loves as God, unconditionally and this type of Love from God turns heads and is sent to them by God through you to lead them to say no to unrighteousness by trusting God in and what God has already, past tense done for them. Death first for us, to present us Holy to Father then life to us by the resurrected Christ in the Spirit, Holy Spirit, where new life is at and the only way to serve Father in Spirit and truth

[h=3]Colossians 1:22[/h]King James Version (KJV)


[SUP]22 [/SUP]In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:


[h=3]Romans 6:4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

 

[JaumeJ]

Paraphrasing the Word, and for this cause Yahweh sent a spirit of delusion on them so those who loved (notice the past tense) evil will believe lies. This is a just punishment for those who have chosen evil over the Love of Yahweh.

The Holy Spirit has left the 501c3 corporate state churches. The pastor is the C.E.O and the bishops are the board of directors. The vast majority have or are falling away, God is sending strong delusion, because they have not a love of the truth. The state is the head, not the Lord Jesus. Gods judgement

 

[homwardbound]

Gods Commandments are the 10 Commandments. The first 4 Commandments pertain to Loving God. The last 6 Commandments pertain to loving your neighbor.

"Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the Commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." (Revelation 14:12)

In the above scripture,, we see that not only are we to keep Gods Commandments,, but also the faith of Jesus!

If you examine Judasim, they keep the Commandments of God,,, but have no faith that Jesus is the Messaiah.

Protestants & Catholics, both have the faith of Jesus,, but they do not keep the Commandments of God, ie. Sabbath

Here in Rev 14:12,, we see a group that not only keeps the Commandments of God,, but they also believe that Jesus is the Messiah!

So,, I think you fall way short when you suggest your two points. "believe into Christ",,,This phrase doesn't make any claim about who the Christ is,, but I suppose you mean that to be Jesus. And you dropped the first 4 commandments: Loving God, Idolatry, Taking the Name of the Lord in vain, Remember the Sabbath day.

You can claim "These are my guidelines",,,,,,But God sets the guidelines to how we are to conduct ourselves and bring glory to our Creator and Revelation 14:12 gives a pretty good description of how we go about doing that.

Happy Sabbath!

So loving God first and neighbor as self is the fulfillment then, yet is it possible for flesh to do this either way?

For the Love of God is this:
[h=3]1 Corinthians 13:4-13[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; [SUP]5 [/SUP]does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; [SUP]6 [/SUP]does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; [SUP]7 [/SUP]bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part and we prophesy in part. [SUP]10 [/SUP]But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Tell me can you or anyone do this, or are you striving to do this a copy of; as whether by the Ten or by the greatest of all God's Love?
Are you or have you been able to copy this, imitate this?
I know I never could and gave up trying to be an imitator of God's sovereign Love.
And in place of being an imitator, I became a participator and God thus shows God's love through me, not counting anyone's sin(s) against them, and by God's amazing Love their is no time for Jealousy, God's love as in one being a participator is spread abroad through out my body from the heart transplant received from God through the resurrected Christ, and this is for all.
Which I know, all have received this if they believe, for God the Father does this operation, God just know all are not aware of this, because many get busy in the works they are doing and or are not doing, leaving one thirsty, striving to keep life and when fail are thirsty again, when once we know what Christ did for us, we never thirst again as he told that woman at the well.

The truth all truth is in Christ at the cross where all the riches of him are found, especially the resurrected life there for us all to receive here and now in the Spirit of God, yet can't see this without first dying to self at the cross with Christ
All in love to all.

 

[JaumeJ]

Dear sister in Yeshua, all of this twisting of the teaching (Torah) brings a great light to the title of the Beast, the Lawless One. Anyone who cannot learn from the Law and all of the Torah (teachings) is lawless, using grace as a convenience rather than living the gift. Yahweh bless your wonderful works in sharing the Word, amen.

Torah (instructions) keeping leads to self righteousness? Really? That is a very wicked hearted thing to accuse me of.

Deu 9:5 It is not because of your righteousness, or because your heart is so upright, that you go in to take possession of their land; but to punish the wickedness of these nations that Adonai your God is driving them out ahead of you, and also to confirm the word which Adonai swore to your ancestors, Avraham, Yitz'chak and Ya`akov.

If it wasn't for the new covenant, the Holy Spirit writing the commandments on my heart (the new ark where God's commandments are kept) then I would not know what God desired of me.

Psa 7:8 Adonai, who dispenses judgment to the peoples, judge me, Adonai, according to my righteousness and as my integrity deserves.
Psa 7:9 Let the evil of the wicked come to an end, and establish the righteous; since you, righteous God, test hearts and minds.
Psa 7:10 My shield is God, who saves the upright in heart.

Psa 11:7 For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

Psa 119:142 Your righteousness is eternal righteousness, and your Torah is truth.

 

[JaumeJ]

It struck me after posting the quoted below that I should voice a strong warning to all who are in the Messiah and sharing the Word.

Those who loved evil and are under the sphere of influence of the spirit of delusion will continue to believe lies and pass them on in this forum, so be careful not to cast pearls before the swine.

A few gentle exhortations, then treat any continuous offender as a non-believer.

Otherwise they are taking good people away from sharing with those earnestly seeking to please our Father.

Paraphrasing the Word, and for this cause Yahweh sent a spirit of delusion on them so those who loved (notice the past tense) evil will believe lies. This is a just punishment for those who have chosen evil over the Love of Yahweh.