Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances

[followjesus]

No,

You posted a few scriptures and claimed they "refuted" the Word's of Paul and the Christ which describe the "LAW" the Pharisees, including Paul followed.

The Biblical truth is the Pharisees had corrupted God's Laws and created their own. Not because I said it, but because Paul said it, Jesus said it, Jeremiah Said it, Ezekiel said it, Isaiah Said it, Stephen said it.

The Biblical truth is the Pharisees rejected God's Law and they were blinded for doing it. You are free to try and find other scriptures which prove they were "Law Keepers" and make void the Word's of all these people. Maybe I missed something. But the ones you posted certainly didn't make void the Word's of all these people.

Biblically the Law of Moses, and the Law of the coveanant are different.

Look at Just the commandments. there is no condemnation in them, "do not commit adultery" that is Not a condemnation on anyone even an adulterer it is Just a Law. "do Not commit adultery."

then you Have the Book of the Mosaic Law. which governs the commandment.

exodus 20:14 " Thou shalt not commit adultery."


The Mosaic Governance of this commandment.


Leviticus 20:10 " And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

and the Book of Moses, then explains what adultery even is, as well as it branches out into many sexual morality Laws, probably 75. detailed Laws about things Like incest, sleeping with your wife and Mother in law Homosexuality ect...and it has all these condemnations upon transgressors some crimes are worthy of death, others worthy of being cut off from the people, others excommunicating. stoning, strangulations, burnings are some of the death penalties. Like this

Deuteronomy 22 " Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you. ( if One marries and it is discoved she was not a virgin by her husband)

22If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

23If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; 24Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you."


the commandment is Not the condemnation, it is the Law of Moses that condemns the transgressors. the reason the commandents were put inside the ark, and the book was placed Beside it, is because Moses says " this book ofthe Law will be placed Here beside the ark for a witness against you"


this is How Jesus treated the Mosaic Law concerning this

John 8 " And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? "


as you see above, the scribes and pharisees are follwing the letter, of the ( Mosaic Law) the Man May be elswhere, But the Woman is caught in the act of adultery, the Law says she Must Be put to death, clearly with no appeal. the Mosaic Law Has sentanced this woman, this sinner to death. By the Law she is dead.


....and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. .... v9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.


12Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. 13The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true."

Jesus delivered Her from the Law of Moses because remember He came to call the sinners, to repentance. He does not remove the commandment " do not commit adultery" He removes the sentance of the Law of Moses the " shew no Mercy no pity Law"


the governance of the commandment Has changed. Jesus does Not in any way remove " thou shalt Not commit adultery, Jesus removed " if anyone commits adultery, they Must surely die" He tells Her " Go and sin No More" this is the Mercy of God. it isnt do as you will and i will never condemn you, it is I do Not condemn you for what you have done, even if by the Law you are dead, I forgive you, Now repent and follow Me, I am the Light .....

Paul also endorses the commandents.

romans 13 " Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.:"

Love doesnt lie, Kill, worship other gods, steal, cheat ect....so keeping the commandemts IS to Love one another its Not that the commandents are gone, Love thy Neighbor is A saying to breifly summarize the commandments. John says this even more straight forward and Plain


1 john 5 " By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.





this shouldnt Be thought as " if you ever sin again, you are Lost forever and I will forsake you" Because He teaches His disciples, to forgive Others and ask forgiveness for Our trespeasses, Meaning Jesus already Knows were Not Perfect, But we can follow Him. He Knows we Need Help, He at times Knows He has to carry us on His Back, even Kicking and fighting Hium sometimes, But we are to Learn to Walk after His Path.

Love will always Keep Gods commandments, it doesnt remove and replace them with a phrase

 

[Studyman]

Biblically the Law of Moses, and the Law of the coveanant are different.

Look at Just the commandments. there is no condemnation in them, "do not commit adultery" that is Not a condemnation on anyone even an adulterer it is Just a Law. "do Not commit adultery."

then you Have the Book of the Mosaic Law. which governs the commandment.

exodus 20:14 " Thou shalt not commit adultery."


The Mosaic Governance of this commandment.


Leviticus 20:10 " And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

and the Book of Moses, then explains what adultery even is, as well as it branches out into many sexual morality Laws, probably 75. detailed Laws about things Like incest, sleeping with your wife and Mother in law Homosexuality ect...and it has all these condemnations upon transgressors some crimes are worthy of death, others worthy of being cut off from the people, others excommunicating. stoning, strangulations, burnings are some of the death penalties. Like this

Deuteronomy 22 " Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you. ( if One marries and it is discoved she was not a virgin by her husband)

22If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

23If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; 24Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you."


the commandment is Not the condemnation, it is the Law of Moses that condemns the transgressors. the reason the commandents were put inside the ark, and the book was placed Beside it, is because Moses says " this book ofthe Law will be placed Here beside the ark for a witness against you"


this is How Jesus treated the Mosaic Law concerning this

John 8 " And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? "


as you see above, the scribes and pharisees are follwing the letter, of the ( Mosaic Law) the Man May be elswhere, But the Woman is caught in the act of adultery, the Law says she Must Be put to death, clearly with no appeal. the Mosaic Law Has sentanced this woman, this sinner to death. By the Law she is dead.


....and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. .... v9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.


12Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. 13The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true."

Jesus delivered Her from the Law of Moses because remember He came to call the sinners, to repentance. He does not remove the commandment " do not commit adultery" He removes the sentance of the Law of Moses the " shew no Mercy no pity Law"


the governance of the commandment Has changed. Jesus does Not in any way remove " thou shalt Not commit adultery, Jesus removed " if anyone commits adultery, they Must surely die" He tells Her " Go and sin No More" this is the Mercy of God. it isnt do as you will and i will never condemn you, it is I do Not condemn you for what you have done, even if by the Law you are dead, I forgive you, Now repent and follow Me, I am the Light .....

Paul also endorses the commandents.

romans 13 " Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.:"

Love doesnt lie, Kill, worship other gods, steal, cheat ect....so keeping the commandemts IS to Love one another its Not that the commandents are gone, Love thy Neighbor is A saying to breifly summarize the commandments. John says this even more straight forward and Plain


1 john 5 " By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.





this shouldnt Be thought as " if you ever sin again, you are Lost forever and I will forsake you" Because He teaches His disciples, to forgive Others and ask forgiveness for Our trespeasses, Meaning Jesus already Knows were Not Perfect, But we can follow Him. He Knows we Need Help, He at times Knows He has to carry us on His Back, even Kicking and fighting Hium sometimes, But we are to Learn to Walk after His Path.

Love will always Keep Gods commandments, it doesnt remove and replace them with a phrase

Thank you for your thoughtful and heart felt reply. I agree with much of it.

If you wouldn't mind I would like to comment on it.

We were talking about the Pharisees and their religion. It is widely taught that they were trying to earn Salvation by keeping God's Commandments. This is simply not true. Zechariahs and Elizabeth followed God's instructions, but the Pharisees as a religion did not. There is no scriptural evidence to suggest that the Pharisees were following the "letter of the law". Maybe two or 3 scriptures might be construed as saying that, but only if you are willing to reject volumes of scriptures in both the OT and from Jesus and Paul and Stephen, Jeremiah, Isaiah, etc. which preach that they had created a "Vision of their own mind" that they "taught for doctrines the commandments of men".

I think this is a very important truth to recognize.

Regarding the Adulterous woman it is also important to understand a few things as well. The Pharisees brought the woman to Jesus in an attempt to deceive or trip Him up.

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

Jesus said these Pharisees had "Omitted the weightier matter of the Law" like mercy and judgment and Faith. Had they "followed the letter of the Law" they would have been repentant and cleansed from their sin before making the judgment against this woman. This was the purpose of the Levitical Priesthood to begin with. Jesus knew this because He was the one who wrote the Law in the first place. He perfectly trapped them because everyone of those Jews knew they were guilty of the same sin or worse. Yet they were not stoned. David was guilty of the same sin, yet he was not stoned.

God showed mercy and righteous judgment through out the Law and the Prophets.

Lev. 26:40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

If one studies the Law and the Prophets they will find that God taught and practiced mercy through out the OT. The idea that the Righteous Leaders and Prophets didn't preach mercy and repentance is just not accurate in my opinion.

This woman was already spiritually dead, already Spiritually stoned to death. The righteous judgment against her had already been made by the "Congregation of the Lord". She had a humble heart before Jesus and He forgave her and told her basically to pick up her cross and follow Him just like He did Abram who would also have been guilty.

So I would maybe disagree as far as your comment regarding her punishment. She had already been convicted as Paul said.

"I was alive once, and the Commandments came sin revived and I died". She would have been dead in her sins for the rest of her physical live had Jesus not given her another chance, as would we all.

There was a lot of this story that didn't stack up as "following the letter of the Law". Where was the man who was just as guilty? It takes two to commit adultery. Where are the witnesses?

No, I'm of the opinion that this event had nothing to do with God's Law, rather, as a fraud perpetrated against the Christ to corner Him, which He handled masterfully.

Very Good post FJ,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me :^)

 

[posthuman]

Love will always Keep Gods commandments, it doesnt remove and replace them with a phrase

are you suggesting that putting adulterers ((for example)) to death was not God's command?

 

[posthuman]

This woman was already spiritually dead, already Spiritually stoned to death. The righteous judgment against her had already been made by the "Congregation of the Lord". She had a humble heart before Jesus

no evidence whatsoever of her being repentant or 'having a humble heart' -- pure presumption & insertion into the text on your part.

but the interesting thing here, which i've pointed out to you at least once previously, that you summarily ignored, is that you're 'preaching' spiritual observance of the very much physical penalty included in God's own commands. you say 'it's already fulfilled' because she's 'spiritually dead' --- so you remove all kinds of jots and tittles from the Law ((well-prior to the crucifixion)).

but we all know quite well how you do a complete reversal when it comes to weekly sabbath-keeping: you teach us that everyone who doesn't physically observe it is going to hell, spiritual observance altogether notwithstanding.

hypocrisy much?

why is 'spiritual stoning to death' while she is still under Moses "okay" in your book, but 'entering into spiritual rest' in the reality of Christ for those who are not under law but grace taboo with you?

 

[joefizz]

no evidence whatsoever of her being repentant or 'having a humble heart' -- pure presumption & insertion into the text on your part.

but the interesting thing here, which i've pointed out to you at least once previously, that you summarily ignored, is that you're 'preaching' spiritual observance of the very much physical penalty included in God's own commands. you say 'it's already fulfilled' because she's 'spiritually dead' --- so you remove all kinds of jots and tittles from the Law ((well-prior to the crucifixion)).

but we all know quite well how you do a complete reversal when it comes to weekly sabbath-keeping: you teach us that everyone who doesn't physically observe it is going to hell, spiritual observance altogether notwithstanding.

hypocrisy much?

why is 'spiritual stoning to death' while she is still under Moses "okay" in your book, but 'entering into spiritual rest' in the reality of Christ for those who are not under law but grace taboo with you?

Yes it isn't told even a full summary of the woman,all that can be discerned at least in general is that she was brought before Jesus with a charge of adultery presumably because she had done so,and Jesus did not speak on her "humbling herself" or "having a pure heart" he only regarded her charge,pointed out that her accusers were not present after their consciences got to them when Jesus said "he without sin cast the first stone" thereby making her not guilty according to man and to go and "sin no more".

 

[posthuman]

Had they "followed the letter of the Law" they would have been repentant and cleansed from their sin before making the judgment against this woman. This was the purpose of the Levitical Priesthood to begin with.

where exactly is it written that an adulterer could only be put to death by the hand of sinless person?

i've been looking, and i've found a number of suspiciously cookie-cutter 'devotionals' that say 'according to Jewish law..' the first stones had to be cast by people innocent in the matter, but i've found no reference to scripture.

you aren't appealing to human pharisee tradition-addition to God's own commands here, are ya?

in this passage, they say she has been 'caught in the act' -- fair presumption then is that there were witnesses, and no reason to suspect the witnesses weren't present.

not seeing any basis in the text for your comments here studydude...???

((setting aside for the moment the fact that John 8:1-11 is highly debatable as a being later addition to the text, and not even scripture at all))

 

[Ralph-]

Gal 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

The church sees the keeping of the law "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18) as the necessary expression of the faith that saves, and not as what you have to do to be justified.

Our brethren who keep the laws of literal Feasts and Sabbaths also see the keeping of the law as the necessary expression of the faith that saves, and not as what you have to do to be justified.

But for some reason the church won't let them think they are keeping the law for the same reason they themselves are keeping the law and are sure they can only be doing it in order to be justified.

Even when you explain this to the church they still can't comprehend that it is possible for law keepers to keep the law of Moses for a reason other than trying to be justified by the law, even though that is what the church is doing.


Just because keeping the law "love your neighbor as yourself" leaves no requirement of law remaining, that hardly means you can't keep a literal Sabbath or Festival for the same reason you keep "love your neighbor as yourself". Keeping the festival cycle does not have to automatically mean you trying to justify yourself.

 

[Cee]

Good point.

I understand the distinction you are making.

I’ll remember this, but I’m sure you’ve seen people dance around the topic of their justification.

And I’m sure you would agree Paul was most passionate about keeping free of the Law and all forms of being justified by it.

It is a noble task.

But I do agree with your argument here.

I’ll leave this thread alone for now.

Thanks for thoughtful reply.

The church sees the keeping of the law "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18) as the necessary expression of the faith that saves, and not as what you have to do to be justified.

Our brethren who keep the laws of literal Feasts and Sabbaths also see the keeping of the law as the necessary expression of the faith that saves, and not as what you have to do to be justified.

But for some reason the church won't let them think they are keeping the law for the same reason they themselves are keeping the law and are sure they can only be doing it in order to be justified.

Even when you explain this to the church they still can't comprehend that it is possible for law keepers to keep the law of Moses for a reason other than trying to be justified by the law, even though that is what the church is doing.


Just because keeping the law "love your neighbor as yourself" leaves no requirement of law remaining, that hardly means you can't keep a literal Sabbath or Festival for the same reason you keep "love your neighbor as yourself". Keeping the festival cycle does not have to automatically mean you trying to justify yourself.

 

[Cee]

I'll use your words Cee;



rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

And again from Paul;

Gal. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Transgressions of what? Wasn't the Levitical Priesthood Sacrificial, Ceremonial "Law of Works" added to the "Law of faith" Abraham followed?

2 Laws as Paul peaches.

There is not now nor has there even been 613 laws. There are two.

Love God

Love your neighbor

The Law and Prophets instruct us how to follow these two Laws. The entire Old Testament is hanging on these two laws.

As Paul said;

1 Cor. 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.


The Pharisees created their own Path. their own Laws and did not follow the instructions The Word had prepared for them as it is written;

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;(Not any Faith, but faith in the Word which became Flesh) and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of (mans) works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God (The Word which became Flesh) hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The Pharisees rejected the "good works" that Jesus created beforehand for them to "walk in" and created their own.

This has been going on since Eve and continues to this day.

Before I leave this thread, I’ll quickly make a few comments.

Romans 10:For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Do you really believe Paul was speaking about God's Laws here?

The righteousness of God is Christ. Trying to follow the Law for your own righteousness is the stumbling block. It was given to show people their need for something greater; Christ. But those who think they can keep the Law perfectly have no need for Him. And are unwilling to submit to the only way to the Father.

Paul is actually addressing identification here. Notice his words their own righteousness, this is the ego of self, but in Christ we die to ourselves and we are reborn in Him. Now it is not I who live, but Christ in me. We live from righteousness, His righteousness.

And one last comment about a Scripture you posted.

Gal. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

You notice how it says “till...”? This is the word until. What did the Law serve... it was given UNTIL... the Seed should come.... this is Christ He is the Seed of Promise given to Abraham. We as Gentiles enter in through Abraham not Moses. The Law was not for us. It was given to Israel so that the world may be shut up in disobedience, so God may have mercy on all through Christ.

If I say clean up the house until 9pm or until I come back, I have given the command a temporary nature. At 9pm you can stop. Or when I come back.

The Law served a purpose until the Promise was revealed. And Christ is the Promise of God. He is the better covenant. We have better promises in Him than the OT believers were given, which is why they join in with us. So why live undeca lesser covenant? Something to consider.

 

[Cee]

The church sees the keeping of the law "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18) as the necessary expression of the faith that saves, and not as what you have to do to be justified.

Our brethren who keep the laws of literal Feasts and Sabbaths also see the keeping of the law as the necessary expression of the faith that saves, and not as what you have to do to be justified.

But for some reason the church won't let them think they are keeping the law for the same reason they themselves are keeping the law and are sure they can only be doing it in order to be justified.

Even when you explain this to the church they still can't comprehend that it is possible for law keepers to keep the law of Moses for a reason other than trying to be justified by the law, even though that is what the church is doing.


Just because keeping the law "love your neighbor as yourself" leaves no requirement of law remaining, that hardly means you can't keep a literal Sabbath or Festival for the same reason you keep "love your neighbor as yourself". Keeping the festival cycle does not have to automatically mean you trying to justify yourself.

Oh, one last thing about this topic. There’s a ton of specific sets of reasons that I focus on love as the fulfillment of the Law. And the expression of our transformation in Christ. But some of the biggest is this, God is Love. Loving one another is being like Him. Our love comes from Him because He loves us first. Love never fails. It is eternal in that it will remain after this age. It is the criteria we will be judged when God sorts Sheep and Goats. And love is the most excellent way. I wish that all believers and myself would understand it more. And understanding the purpose of the Law to lead us to Christ is essential to maturity.

 

[PS]

are you suggesting that putting adulterers ((for example)) to death was not God's command?

Thou shall not kill is a command of God and premeditated killing is murder. It is forbidden, never mind what the teachers of the law say.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Thou shall not kill is a command of God and premeditated killing is murder. It is forbidden, never mind what the teachers of the law say.

Do you know the difference between murder and the PENALTY for murder (which is death)? The death penalty for capital crimes was instituted by God, and was generally in effect in almost every country in the world until very recently.

This has nothing to do with the teachers of the law.

 

[PS]

Do you know the difference between murder and the PENALTY for murder (which is death)? The death penalty for capital crimes was instituted by God, and was generally in effect in almost every country in the world until very recently.

This has nothing to do with the teachers of the law.

Really!...

 

[Jackson123]

Oh, one last thing about this topic. There’s a ton of specific sets of reasons that I focus on love as the fulfillment of the Law. And the expression of our transformation in Christ. But some of the biggest is this, God is Love. Loving one another is being like Him. Our love comes from Him because He loves us first. Love never fails. It is eternal in that it will remain after this age. It is the criteria we will be judged when God sorts Sheep and Goats. And love is the most excellent way. I wish that all believers and myself would understand it more. And understanding the purpose of the Law to lead us to Christ is essential to maturity.

Yep, love is the constitution of all God's laws,

Example: do not kill, you not kill your son, that you love.

[h=2]Definition of constitution[/h]1a : the basic principles and laws of a nation, state, or social group that determine the powers and duties of the government and guarantee certain rights to the people in it b : a written instrument embodying the rules of a political or social organization
2a : the physical makeup of the individual especially with respect to the health, strength, and appearance of the body

• a hearty constitution

b : the structure, composition, physical makeup, or nature of something

• the constitution of society

3: the mode in which a state or society is organized; especially : the manner in which sovereign power is distributed

4: an established law or custom : ordinance

5: the act of establishing, making, or setting up

• before the constitution of civil laws

 

[PS]

Yep, love is the constitution of all God's laws,

Example: do not kill, you not kill your son, that you love.

Definition of constitution

1a : the basic principles and laws of a nation, state, or social group that determine the powers and duties of the government and guarantee certain rights to the people in it b : a written instrument embodying the rules of a political or social organization
2a : the physical makeup of the individual especially with respect to the health, strength, and appearance of the body

• a hearty constitution

b : the structure, composition, physical makeup, or nature of something

• the constitution of society

3: the mode in which a state or society is organized; especially : the manner in which sovereign power is distributed

4: an established law or custom : ordinance

5: the act of establishing, making, or setting up

• before the constitution of civil laws

Love is patient, love is kind. Love does not envy, boast, dishonour, or keep a record of wrongs. 1 Cor 16:14.

The result of love is that we do not:-
1. Recompense evil with evil. Rom 12:17

2. We do not avenge ourselves, but rather we leave it to the Lord who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Rom 12:19

3. We should overcome evil with good and wait on the LORD, who will save us. Rom 12:21

4. The above echoes Pro 20:22, "Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the LORD, and he shall save thee."

5. See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. 1Th 5:15

Old Testament hell bound law is vengeful, unimpressive, devoid of love, personally restrictive, and impossible to keep.

If anyone wants to argue with the above, then take it up with God at the appropriate time.

 

[Jackson123]

Love is patient, love is kind. Love does not envy, boast, dishonour, or keep a record of wrongs. 1 Cor 16:14.

The result of love is that we do not:-
1. Recompense evil with evil. Rom 12:17

2. We do not avenge ourselves, but rather we leave it to the Lord who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Rom 12:19

3. We should overcome evil with good and wait on the LORD, who will save us. Rom 12:21

4. The above echoes Pro 20:22, "Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the LORD, and he shall save thee."

5. See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. 1Th 5:15

Old Testament hell bound law is vengeful, unimpressive, devoid of love, personally restrictive, and impossible to keep.

If anyone wants to argue with the above, then take it up with God at the appropriate time.

yep, Jesus say, love your enemies, that only happen when we as a branch, abide to the vine. Branch can not bear fruit of itself.

 

[followjesus]

Thank you for your thoughtful and heart felt reply. I agree with much of it.

If you wouldn't mind I would like to comment on it.

We were talking about the Pharisees and their religion. It is widely taught that they were trying to earn Salvation by keeping God's Commandments. This is simply not true. Zechariahs and Elizabeth followed God's instructions, but the Pharisees as a religion did not. There is no scriptural evidence to suggest that the Pharisees were following the "letter of the law". Maybe two or 3 scriptures might be construed as saying that, but only if you are willing to reject volumes of scriptures in both the OT and from Jesus and Paul and Stephen, Jeremiah, Isaiah, etc. which preach that they had created a "Vision of their own mind" that they "taught for doctrines the commandments of men".

I think this is a very important truth to recognize.

Regarding the Adulterous woman it is also important to understand a few things as well. The Pharisees brought the woman to Jesus in an attempt to deceive or trip Him up.

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

Jesus said these Pharisees had "Omitted the weightier matter of the Law" like mercy and judgment and Faith. Had they "followed the letter of the Law" they would have been repentant and cleansed from their sin before making the judgment against this woman. This was the purpose of the Levitical Priesthood to begin with. Jesus knew this because He was the one who wrote the Law in the first place. He perfectly trapped them because everyone of those Jews knew they were guilty of the same sin or worse. Yet they were not stoned. David was guilty of the same sin, yet he was not stoned.

God showed mercy and righteous judgment through out the Law and the Prophets.

Lev. 26:40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

If one studies the Law and the Prophets they will find that God taught and practiced mercy through out the OT. The idea that the Righteous Leaders and Prophets didn't preach mercy and repentance is just not accurate in my opinion.

This woman was already spiritually dead, already Spiritually stoned to death. The righteous judgment against her had already been made by the "Congregation of the Lord". She had a humble heart before Jesus and He forgave her and told her basically to pick up her cross and follow Him just like He did Abram who would also have been guilty.

So I would maybe disagree as far as your comment regarding her punishment. She had already been convicted as Paul said.

"I was alive once, and the Commandments came sin revived and I died". She would have been dead in her sins for the rest of her physical live had Jesus not given her another chance, as would we all.

There was a lot of this story that didn't stack up as "following the letter of the Law". Where was the man who was just as guilty? It takes two to commit adultery. Where are the witnesses?

No, I'm of the opinion that this event had nothing to do with God's Law, rather, as a fraud perpetrated against the Christ to corner Him, which He handled masterfully.

Very Good post FJ,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me :^)

the Law of Moses doesnt offer salvation at all. it is the condemnation that we are saved from, the curse. I respect your thoughts also. the adulterous woman was caught in the act the witnesses Had brought her to Jesus, Yes they were trying to trip Him up indeed, but they always were almost every time they came to Him that way. they always were testing Him, against the Mosaic Law. the fact is we dont Know whaere the Man was. But Jesus doesnt say they are falsely accusing Her at all. He says to them " let the One without sin castthe first stone at Her. and whats awesome, is when He says that, they all slowly become convicted.


are you saying that you think the scriptures in the 5 books of Moses are corrupt? the people were always corrupt, remember the first set of commandments? before Moses got down the Mountain they had already Broken the first commandment...... it was Never Meant for salvation, because the Law of Moses does Not offer the Holy spitit only Jesus does. the law of Moses, is good for our learning, good to teach us about Jesus, But it is in No way Our governance, Jesus is. a christian, cannot follow the Mosaic Law, it would transgress the Gospel.


Jesus teaches according to the commandments in a way that teaches us to Keep them Not keepinjg them as contrary rules But for indstance the commandment " thou shalt Not commit adultery"...but i tell you if you look at a woman to lust after Her, you have commited adultery in your Heart...." what that is teaching us is that adultery the action, the sinful fruit. is coming from inside of Our Hearts and Minds. if we Learn to keep Our eyes good, Our Hearts good and do Not allow Lust in the Mind....there will never Be a temptation to commit adultery , it will actually Become foreign to Our Hearts and Minds. so that the person who goes through Jesus doctrine, will Keep the commandments, Just as Part of Our New Heart and spirit. thats the difference you arent considering. the pharisees and scribes did Keep the letters they wore thier phylacteries Long, the rules got in the way of Love. Notice they Loved money, they were proud and self exhalting, pious, they looked down on others ect. God gave them the Mosaic Law in order to Break them they were sinful when He gave them the Law, He said "they will break My covenant to Moses before He died, then Moses wrote the laws in a book to witness against them. its Not Meant to save, if it was, Jesus would Not Have Been put to a shame and death. there has Never Been salvation until Jesus rose and was seated.

The Law was a prophecy of that event. its a witness to teach us about Jesus. the passover is about Jesus. the exodus is about Jesus, the priesthood Laws and dress is about Jesus, the tabernacle of the testimony is about Jesus........its a witness about the Lord

 

[followjesus]

Love is patient, love is kind. Love does not envy, boast, dishonour, or keep a record of wrongs. 1 Cor 16:14.

The result of love is that we do not:-
1. Recompense evil with evil. Rom 12:17

2. We do not avenge ourselves, but rather we leave it to the Lord who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Rom 12:19

3. We should overcome evil with good and wait on the LORD, who will save us. Rom 12:21

4. The above echoes Pro 20:22, "Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the LORD, and he shall save thee."

5. See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. 1Th 5:15

Old Testament hell bound law is vengeful, unimpressive, devoid of love, personally restrictive, and impossible to keep.

If anyone wants to argue with the above, then take it up with God at the appropriate time.

Yes paul taught that because jesus taught this

matthew 5 " Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Leviticus 24 " And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him;20Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.

.....39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.'

Jesus actually teaches contrary to the mosaic Law several times, like this Moses taught the Law, Jesus the Gospel. Paul understood this well its where His doctrine came from.

Jesus teaches " forgive as the Father Has forgiven you" Paul teaches it.

Jesus teaches do not take vengeance, Paul teaches it. they use different words But the same teachings. its really quoite contrary i dont understand the controversy.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What law did they break, was it man's law? No they followed and even wrote, mans law.

They broke God's law by following man's law.

What a joke man, They broke Gods law. They did not love the lord their god with all their heart mind and soul,

No one gets past this one command, even if you could follow the rest by the letter. They broke it by the spirit. Which is what Jesus told them in his sermon on the mount.

You people excusing your sin just amaze me, Then to Think God will forgive you just because you said your sorry, or because you tried your best?

Good luck with that my friend.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What sin or sins did they commit that caused them to be cursed.

They did not fulfill the law.

Jesus did, Then became a curse for us. All have sinned and fall short. That includes you my friend.

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

Galatians 3:10
[ The Law Brings a Curse ] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

It seems paul and James got it, Why can't you?