Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances

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Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 7:16-17, "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."[/FONT]
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
12,838
628
113
There is absolutely nothing lucid in your communications tome or about me. What is your problem man?


RED: You are sidestepping. That is not what I said.

What you need to understand is that God's wrath is well known.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
2,643
90
48
There is absolutely nothing lucid in your communications tome or about me. What is your problem man?
I'm not the one with the problem, but you seem to have the same problem as the self-righteous Pharisees, but unfortunately for them, and for you, they could not see it.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
5,521
140
63
I'm not the one with the problem, but you seem to have the same problem as the self-righteous Pharisees, but unfortunately for them, and for you, they could not see it.
The problem with Jaumej is inconsistentce. He believe salvation by grace but also obidience, almost like catholic

we believe salvation by grace through faith.

than we become like a branch that abide to the vine and bear fruit.

So fruit is a product of salvation, fruit of the Holy Spirit is love etc, if we love the Lord than we obey to Him.

Obidience not produce salvation, but salvation produce obidience

the Bible say, branch can not bear the fruit of itself.

Before branch abide to the vine, it is impossible to bear fruit.

John 15


4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.


let me repeat one more time,

the fruit is product of vine if if we have faith in the vine and abide to it, it will bear the fruit.

Biblical order

Faith > abide > save > bear fruit.

fruit is love, love the Lord mean obey Him.


Jaumej order

faith + obedience > salvation.
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
3,350
337
83
So, do you believe salvation by doing the law or by faith?
Justification is solely on the basis of faith in the forgiveness of God. Keeping the commandments of God is what the justified person is then set free to do, and expected to do. But he does not have to keep the ones that his justification in Christ now makes unneeded to keep now.

But the justified person is also not free to worship idols, which is what studyman and others argue our Catholic, man made observances are. He's not wrong about that, it's just that, for me, we're so far down the pike from when our stupid, spirit-less forefathers decided to create their own way to worship God in accordance to pagan practices and beliefs that it's a non issue for me personally. IMO, there's bigger fish to fry than that, but if a person is struck by conscience about the matter they need to follow their conscience........and we need to leave them alone and let them.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
5,521
140
63
Justification is solely on the basis of faith in the forgiveness of God. Keeping the commandments of God is what the justified person is then set free to do, and expected to do. But he does not have to keep the ones that his justification in Christ now makes unneeded to keep now.

But the justified person is also not free to worship idols, which is what studyman and others argue our Catholic, man made observances are. He's not wrong about that, it's just that, for me, we're so far down the pike from when our stupid, spirit-less forefathers decided to create their own way to worship God in accordance to pagan practices and beliefs that it's a non issue for me personally. IMO, there's bigger fish to fry than that, but if a person is struck by conscience about the matter they need to follow their conscience........and we need to leave them alone and let them.
Yep, salvation is by faith alone but faith is not alone. That is martin Luther said.

faith is not alone, because if one have faith in Jesus, it will produce a fruit. Worship idol is not the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

so not worship idol not save you, but faith is, but if you have faith in Jesus you not worship ido.

so not worship Idol is one of the produce of salvation.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
2,643
90
48
The problem with Jaumej is inconsistentce. He believe salvation by grace but also obidience, almost like catholic

we believe salvation by grace through faith.

than we become like a branch that abide to the vine and bear fruit.

So fruit is a product of salvation, fruit of the Holy Spirit is love etc, if we love the Lord than we obey to Him.

Obidience not produce salvation, but salvation produce obidience

the Bible say, branch can not bear the fruit of itself.

Before branch abide to the vine, it is impossible to bear fruit.

John 15


4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.


let me repeat one more time,

the fruit is product of vine if if we have faith in the vine and abide to it, it will bear the fruit.

Biblical order

Faith > abide > save > bear fruit.

fruit is love, love the Lord mean obey Him.


Jaumej order

faith + obedience > salvation.
You are correct.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
2,643
90
48
Justification is solely on the basis of faith in the forgiveness of God. Keeping the commandments of God is what the justified person is then set free to do, and expected to do. But he does not have to keep the ones that his justification in Christ now makes unneeded to keep now.
It is worth remembering the first three commandments concern our relationship with God, so don't elevate money, power, our car, a film star etc. above God.

  1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
  2. You shall not make idols.
  3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.

But the justified person is also not free to worship idols, which is what studyman and others argue our Catholic, man made observances are. He's not wrong about that, it's just that, for me, we're so far down the pike from when our stupid, spirit-less forefathers decided to create their own way to worship God in accordance to pagan practices and beliefs that it's a non issue for me personally.
I am continually amazed by the number of Catholics who tell me, their priest says all they need to do is to live a good life.

IMO, there's bigger fish to fry than that, but if a person is struck by conscience about the matter they need to follow their conscience........and we need to leave them alone and let them.
Conscience may be our inert knowledge of right and wrong, that is engraved on our hearts? Having said that, our view of right and wrong is not the same for everyone.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,099
37
48
Yes, the first thing Jesus said to the people was come and LEARN of me. We have to learn who Jesus is as he teaches us through the holy spirit. Yes ,we have to and must learn of him.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
12,838
628
113
TAlk about mobbing........
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
12,838
628
113
There seem to be a couple of trolls running in this thread.

I have been in the CC seven years and never have such allegations against me
been leveled.

The only inconsistency visible in this particular thread is when I post yes and someone here posts back that I said no. Trolls, nothing more, nothing less.

Also, when someone is claiming to ignore me, I would thank him not to come in sideways through other posts to bring up my name in condemnation. I do not ondemn you.
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,044
1,451
113
There seem to be a couple of trolls running in this thread.

I have been in the CC seven years and never have such allegations against me
been leveled.

The only inconsistency visible in this particular thread is when I post yes and someone here posts back that I said no. Trolls, nothing more, nothing less.

Also, when someone is claiming to ignore me, I would thank him not to come in sideways through other posts to bring up my name in condemnation. I do not ondemn you.
Just for the record, the same accusations have been raised by many, in fact he ignored me because i have made these same accusations multiple times over the years. Many have. Imthink their may be a troll, just not who JJ says it is.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
12,838
628
113
To those two who say I am not consisstent.

I have never posted we are saved by works of any kind, especially of law.

I have consistently poste we are to obey the law according to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

I have consistently posted we are only saved by the Blood of the Lamb of God, that is by His mercy and grace.

I have consistendly advised all who claim they believe Jesus Christ to learn directly from Him just how the law
is to be obeyed and understood by His light on th ematter.

I have frequently reminded all that those who know Jesus Christ have Him as their Mediator.

I have repeatedly made mention that we are not under the law but we are to obey the law that remains according to Jesus Christ's teachign.

I am saved by grace, and because Jesus christ has warned me, I do not teach agains any of the law for that is anti-Christ.

Was Jesus inconsistent when He taught not to teach agains the law? To obey it?

The only thing about the law that is dead are those hundreds Jesus fulfilled already but thoe remain that are being fulfilled in each of us. You canot understand this if you think you are fee of all of the law while it is only its curse that was destroyed n the cross.

Those who say I have not been consistent in this area have not read my posts or they are liars, and inconsistent themselves, morally incontinent.



The problem with Jaumej is inconsistentce. He believe salvation by grace but also obidience, almost like catholic

we believe salvation by grace through faith.

than we become like a branch that abide to the vine and bear fruit.

So fruit is a product of salvation, fruit of the Holy Spirit is love etc, if we love the Lord than we obey to Him.

Obidience not produce salvation, but salvation produce obidience

the Bible say, branch can not bear the fruit of itself.

Before branch abide to the vine, it is impossible to bear fruit.

John 15


4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.


let me repeat one more time,

the fruit is product of vine if if we have faith in the vine and abide to it, it will bear the fruit.

Biblical order

Faith > abide > save > bear fruit.

fruit is love, love the Lord mean obey Him.


Jaumej order

faith + obedience > salvation.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
2,688
232
63
Yes, the first thing Jesus said to the people was come and LEARN of me. We have to learn who Jesus is as he teaches us through the holy spirit. Yes ,we have to and must learn of him.
So then who is this Jesus, that we must learn from Him?

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

So we are to come to Jesus to learn, no other as you said. And Jesus is the Word which became Flesh. He created all things. You, me, the scriptures, His Commandments, and so on.

So Jesus, the Word was the one who spoke to Abram, Yes?

Gen. 12:1 Now the LORD (Word which became Flesh) had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

So was it not this same Jesus who said;

Is. 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God (Word which became Flesh)shall stand for ever.

and again;

Matt. 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

and again;

1 Peter 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord (Word which became Flesh) endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

So then if we are to learn from Jesus, the Word which Became Flesh, and His Words last forever as the scriptures teach, then shouldn't we learn what the New Covenant is from His eternal Words, rather than religious men and their religious tradition?
 
Feb 7, 2017
326
35
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The handwriting of ordinances was blotted out because of its weakness and uselessness:


  • "For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof." (Hebrew 7.18).
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
12,838
628
113
Are you a sheep of the Good Shepherd's pasture?

If you are, then you recognize and hear His Voice.

Have you truly heard what He was saying when He spoke of
and taught the law within the working of our Salvation by
His mercy and grace?

If you have then you know to always apply mercy, and let us not forge justice
and faith.

Have you heard Him when He teaches that He did not come to destroy the law,
rather He came to fulfill it?

Did you hear Him say along with the above, anyone who teaches against the least
of the laws will be least in heaven? I hate to think what will happen to ay who teach
against all of the law.

Are you learned in His teaching that very few of the laws remain that are not fulfilled?

The ones that remain are all of those most obvious law that each us the components
of Godly Love, for God IS Love.

Why go along with a large number of traditionalists who teach each other without hearing all the above from Jesus
Christ?

Yes, we are to obey all of the laws remaining because they are being fulfilled in us until that day, His Day, when
God has completed the work He began in us, and we are perfect.

All of you who are perfect now need not pay any attention to the teachings of our Master here aforementioned for you
are perfect without God's work being completed in you.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
7,876
413
83
Are you a sheep of the Good Shepherd's pasture?

If you are, then you recognize and hear His Voice.

Have you truly heard what He was saying when He spoke of
and taught the law within the working of our Salvation by
His mercy and grace?

If you have then you know to always apply mercy, and let us not forge justice
and faith.

Have you heard Him when He teaches that He did not come to destroy the law,
rather He came to fulfill it?

Did you hear Him say along with the above, anyone who teaches against the least
of the laws will be least in heaven? I hate to think what will happen to ay who teach
against all of the law.

Are you learned in His teaching that very few of the laws remain that are not fulfilled?

The ones that remain are all of those most obvious law that each us the components
of Godly Love, for God IS Love.

Why go along with a large number of traditionalists who teach each other without hearing all the above from Jesus
Christ?

Yes, we are to obey all of the laws remaining because they are being fulfilled in us until that day, His Day, when
God has completed the work He began in us, and we are perfect.

All of you who are perfect now need not pay any attention to the teachings of our Master here aforementioned for you
are perfect without God's work being completed in you.
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So you fail every day. What do you do?

Try harder.

Then you still fail every day. What do you change?

Try harder.

But you still fail every day. What is the solution?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Ohhhh. Those who are trying super hard to be perfect AS COMMANDED are also told to come to Christ and He will give them rest.

So after we are given rest are we supposed to go back to trying super hard to be perfect like our Father in Heaven is perfect?

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

No. We are free from that. The handwriting of the law has been blotted out in Christ.

No matter how plainly it is explained a judaizer always wants to go back to their work at the law. They always insist that the Lord Jesus Christ did not fulfill what He said He came to fulfill.