Book of Daniel, the key to eschatology

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SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
1,323
940
113
#21
That is a future event. It is not related to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, but the sabotage of sacrifices in the future temple at Jerusalem by the Antichrist. His goal will be to (1) set up the Abomination of Desolation in the Holy Place (Mt 24:15) and then to (2) sit in the temple of God boasting that He is God and Christ (2 Thess 2). All of this is also described in the book of Daniel, but the passage to which it relates is Revelation 13.

In Revelation 13:4-6; 14,15 we read:
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven... [the Antichrist in the temple]

And [the False Prophet] deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. [the Abomination of Desolation]
IF there is a third temple built, what will be holy about it?
IF sacrifices are made, why would God accept them?
Any sacrifice made after the crucifixon of Christ is not only invalid, but blaspheme because it rejects the sacrifice of Christ.
The death of Christ made the need of animal sacrifices and the office of Priest no longer necessary nor acceptable.
The Jews may build a building they call a Temple with what they call a Holy of Holies and they may once again offer sacrifices but it will be nothing more that a pagan religious ceremony in the eyes of God because it will be a very public rejection of Christ.
The word TEMPLE does not always refer to a building. 1 Cor. 6:19-20
The word PLACE (as in holy place) does not always refer to a building.
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
314
83
#22
as if the premilly view is not known to anyone who has read Hal Lindsey. :sleep:
I agree but will embellish......Daniel 12 leaves 1335 days to deal with Israel

Ministry of Jesus -->1185 days
To deal with Israel --1335 days

The above = 70th week of Daniel IMV
;) but we are not there yet..........more to come
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
314
83
#24
Daniel Prophecy
Chapter 11

1st year of Darius the Mede 538 BC
Prophecies on the nations

2. Persia – 3 more kings will arise, then the 4th becomes richer than the all the previous 3.
Cambyses in Pseudo-Smerdis
Darius 1 (the great) in Hystaspes
Xerxes (known in the book of Esther as Ahasuerus)

CYRUS, whose riches enabled him to conquer Babylon; fulfilling scripture that says he would free the captives from that land so they return and rebuild the temple. Cyrus was foretold by God 300 years before Cyrus birth to be the savior of His people, the Jews in captivity in Babylon.
(It is reported that Cyrus amassed over $300 million in gold and silver, plus many objects with gemstones)
This king arouses the whole empire, Persia, against the empire of Greece

3. a mighty king will arise, rule with great authority, and do as he pleases (Alexander the Great), this is the same description we have of Alexander in chapter 8

4. as soon as he has arisen, his kingdom will be broken up and parceled out (to his FOUR generals, the four heads of the beast in Daniel 7) upon Alexander’s death)

5. then the king of the south (Ptolemy I of Egypt) grows strong along with one of his princes who gains ascendancy over him, and his dominion will be great indeed. (this is Seleucus I Nicator, whose kingdom SYRIA eventually stretched from Palestine to India) These two were the generals of Alexander

6. After some years they formed an alliance through the marriage of the daughter of Ptolemy II to Antiochus I (a Seleucid), but Antiochus deserted her.

7-9 one of the descendents of HER LINE (Ptolemy III) will arise in his place and will come against the army of Antiochus. Ptolemy invaded Syria in 246 BC.

10-13 War between the two empires between 223 and 200 BC

15-20 Antiochus III (the great) of Syria (NORTH) defeated the Egytian army (SOUTH) in Sidon,
came to terms with Ptolemy V and gave him his daughter in marriage
He annexed the coastlands of Asia Minor and unsuccesfully tried to invade Greece
He was defeated by the Romans at Magnesia in 190 BC and was forced to pay tribute, and soon died.
He was succeeded by his son Seleucus IV (Philopator) who heavily taxed the people of Israel
This history of Antichus III leads into the history of Antiochus IV in the next verses:

Verses 21 – 45 is a history of Antiochus IV Epiphanes (ruled 175-164 BC) He came to the throne by intrigue v 21, made several expeditions into Egypt v 24-27, then turned his hatred on Israel v28 The ships of Kittim refer to Roman power that came from the west past Kittim (Cyprus) to defeat Antiochus in Egypt. V 31-32 Venting his anger on the Jews, Antiochus determined to extinguish the Jewish religion, declared the Mosaic ceremonies illegal and erected in the holy place a statue of Zeus, causing some of the people to worship an idol, while other Jews resisted and were martyred. Verse 31 clearly states that it is the FORCES (army/abomination of desolation) of Antiochus that desecrates the sanctuary. It is Antiochus who woos the ungodly to worship the idol and reject the Law of Moses.

V 33 Those who stood firm and revealed the prophesy of Daniel to the people were martyred or made captives.
V34 they will be granted a little help, many will join them in intrigue. This would seem to refer to the revolt and guerrilla warfare against the hellenization of the Jews waged by Mattathias, an elderly priest and his five sons (which are later referred to as the Maccabeans)

36-37 Antiochus does as he pleases, he exalts and magnifies himself ….he is addressed as Lord and Savior. He is arrogant, blasphemous, and cruel…. is ORDAINED to do these things <<FOR THAT WHICH IS DECREED WILL BE DONE>>v36 He holds himself above any god and above any person 38. His god is the god of power, military power 39 - 45 With the help of a foreign god (ruler; foreign armies) he will invade other nations. Antiochus was constantly warring with other nations. (Egypt, Syria, Libya and Ethiopia)

Eventually the king of the south and the king of the north make war against him.

v41 He occupies “Beautiful Land”, Palestine, but Edom, Moab and Ammon are rescued from him.

(v 42) failed because of Roman intervention (v 44), and in the end he died in great pain; Josephus called it a great distress. With all his power, he died and no one could help him.
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
118
43
#25
What cracks me up the most is the use of this word eschatology and other words designated to explain particular events found within scripture.

Christ Himself called the period now known as eschatology, the last days.

Christ is God!!

I am tired of using catch phrases someone else designated for what God Himself said!!
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
777
113
#26
What cracks me up the most is the use of this word eschatology and other words designated to explain particular events found within scripture.

Christ Himself called the period now known as eschatology, the last days.

Christ is God!!

I am tired of using catch phrases someone else designated for what God Himself said!!
Last days: ἐσχάταις ἡμέραις (eschatais hémérais).

Eschatos = last.

Eschatology = "about the last days".
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
118
43
#27
Last days: ἐσχάταις ἡμέραις (eschatais hémérais).

Eschatos = last.

Eschatology = "about the last days".


I get that, but we get Christ speaking in Matthew concerning the last days. Eschatology is GREEK!! The Gospels for the most part WERE NOT GREEK!!

So, I do not care what the Greeks termed the last days, if I was going to coin any phrase designated by Christ from the Gospels, it better be of Aramaic/Hebrew descent!!

And Daniel was 100% HEBREW, not GREEK!!
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
777
113
#28
I get that, but we get Christ speaking in Matthew concerning the last days. Eschatology is GREEK!!
The word "eschatology" is from Greek, the word "Christ" is from Greek, the word "Scripture" is from Latin, the word "testament" is from Latin, the word "Bible" is from Greek etc.

Languages takes words from another languages.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,196
2,362
113
#29
Can you quote? Daniel has so many textual versions and so many translation possiblities, that people are rarely reading the same things.
Is this true? Can you show me?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,093
3,015
113
#30
I get that, but we get Christ speaking in Matthew concerning the last days. Eschatology is GREEK!! The Gospels for the most part WERE NOT GREEK!!

So, I do not care what the Greeks termed the last days, if I was going to coin any phrase designated by Christ from the Gospels, it better be of Aramaic/Hebrew descent!!

And Daniel was 100% HEBREW, not GREEK!!

FYI The first half of Daniel was origianlly in Aramaic and the second half in Hebrew. I know, I hav read it.
It i believed the first half was written by Daniel while he was in exile in Babylon while the second half wes written when he returned to Israel...…...

I had lots of helps reading in Hebrew, and also in Aramaic. Also, fyi, Ezra is originally in Aramaic, all of it.

I also cameacross Aramaic words here and there in other parts of the Old Testamen.

None of this is important to any who read and pray and learn by the Holy Spirit. I am interested in languages though not expert, and I read in several languages...with helps, lol.
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
118
43
#31
The word "eschatology" is from Greek, the word "Christ" is from Greek, the word "Scripture" is from Latin, the word "testament" is from Latin, the word "Bible" is from Greek etc.

Languages takes words from another languages.



hahahaha that is already a given and we know how well that has been with the KJV being at least the 5th translation from the original hahahaha

I just believe in which Book, or WHO said what, that if we are using definitions, that we use from the actual language it originated from.

Like I said in me previous post, I DO NOT CARE WHAT THE GREEKS THINK!!
Not a single Greek was part of the original Chosen People.
I do not care that they even existed!!
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,954
10,338
113
#32
IF there is a third temple built, what will be holy about it?
IF sacrifices are made, why would God accept them?
Any sacrifice made after the crucifixon of Christ is not only invalid, but blaspheme because it rejects the sacrifice of Christ.
The death of Christ made the need of animal sacrifices and the office of Priest no longer necessary nor acceptable.
The Jews may build a building they call a Temple with what they call a Holy of Holies and they may once again offer sacrifices but it will be nothing more that a pagan religious ceremony in the eyes of God because it will be a very public rejection of Christ.
The word TEMPLE does not always refer to a building. 1 Cor. 6:19-20
The word PLACE (as in holy place) does not always refer to a building.
The blood of bulls and goats NEVER took away sin.

No sacrifice, before or after, Cuased God to forgive one sin. So it does not matter when they were done.

The bible says they will do sacrifice again Lets just take God at his word. Not worry if God will accept it..
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
777
113
#33
hahahaha that is already a given and we know how well that has been with the KJV being at least the 5th translation from the original hahahaha

I just believe in which Book, or WHO said what, that if we are using definitions, that we use from the actual language it originated from.

Like I said in me previous post, I DO NOT CARE WHAT THE GREEKS THINK!!
Not a single Greek was part of the original Chosen People.
I do not care that they even existed!!
You are truly a weird guy.
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,954
10,338
113
#34
Daniel Prophecy
Chapter 11

1st year of Darius the Mede 538 BC
Prophecies on the nations

2. Persia – 3 more kings will arise, then the 4th becomes richer than the all the previous 3.
Cambyses in Pseudo-Smerdis
Darius 1 (the great) in Hystaspes
Xerxes (known in the book of Esther as Ahasuerus)

CYRUS, whose riches enabled him to conquer Babylon; fulfilling scripture that says he would free the captives from that land so they return and rebuild the temple. Cyrus was foretold by God 300 years before Cyrus birth to be the savior of His people, the Jews in captivity in Babylon.
(It is reported that Cyrus amassed over $300 million in gold and silver, plus many objects with gemstones)
This king arouses the whole empire, Persia, against the empire of Greece

3. a mighty king will arise, rule with great authority, and do as he pleases (Alexander the Great), this is the same description we have of Alexander in chapter 8

4. as soon as he has arisen, his kingdom will be broken up and parceled out (to his FOUR generals, the four heads of the beast in Daniel 7) upon Alexander’s death)

5. then the king of the south (Ptolemy I of Egypt) grows strong along with one of his princes who gains ascendancy over him, and his dominion will be great indeed. (this is Seleucus I Nicator, whose kingdom SYRIA eventually stretched from Palestine to India) These two were the generals of Alexander

6. After some years they formed an alliance through the marriage of the daughter of Ptolemy II to Antiochus I (a Seleucid), but Antiochus deserted her.

7-9 one of the descendents of HER LINE (Ptolemy III) will arise in his place and will come against the army of Antiochus. Ptolemy invaded Syria in 246 BC.

10-13 War between the two empires between 223 and 200 BC

15-20 Antiochus III (the great) of Syria (NORTH) defeated the Egytian army (SOUTH) in Sidon,
came to terms with Ptolemy V and gave him his daughter in marriage
He annexed the coastlands of Asia Minor and unsuccesfully tried to invade Greece
He was defeated by the Romans at Magnesia in 190 BC and was forced to pay tribute, and soon died.
He was succeeded by his son Seleucus IV (Philopator) who heavily taxed the people of Israel
This history of Antichus III leads into the history of Antiochus IV in the next verses:

Verses 21 – 45 is a history of Antiochus IV Epiphanes (ruled 175-164 BC) He came to the throne by intrigue v 21, made several expeditions into Egypt v 24-27, then turned his hatred on Israel v28 The ships of Kittim refer to Roman power that came from the west past Kittim (Cyprus) to defeat Antiochus in Egypt. V 31-32 Venting his anger on the Jews, Antiochus determined to extinguish the Jewish religion, declared the Mosaic ceremonies illegal and erected in the holy place a statue of Zeus, causing some of the people to worship an idol, while other Jews resisted and were martyred. Verse 31 clearly states that it is the FORCES (army/abomination of desolation) of Antiochus that desecrates the sanctuary. It is Antiochus who woos the ungodly to worship the idol and reject the Law of Moses.

V 33 Those who stood firm and revealed the prophesy of Daniel to the people were martyred or made captives.
V34 they will be granted a little help, many will join them in intrigue. This would seem to refer to the revolt and guerrilla warfare against the hellenization of the Jews waged by Mattathias, an elderly priest and his five sons (which are later referred to as the Maccabeans)

36-37 Antiochus does as he pleases, he exalts and magnifies himself ….he is addressed as Lord and Savior. He is arrogant, blasphemous, and cruel…. is ORDAINED to do these things <<FOR THAT WHICH IS DECREED WILL BE DONE>>v36 He holds himself above any god and above any person 38. His god is the god of power, military power 39 - 45 With the help of a foreign god (ruler; foreign armies) he will invade other nations. Antiochus was constantly warring with other nations. (Egypt, Syria, Libya and Ethiopia)

Eventually the king of the south and the king of the north make war against him.

v41 He occupies “Beautiful Land”, Palestine, but Edom, Moab and Ammon are rescued from him.

(v 42) failed because of Roman intervention (v 44), and in the end he died in great pain; Josephus called it a great distress. With all his power, he died and no one could help him.
Why don’t you respond to people who responded to romans 9 yet? Don’t you think we need to do this before we move on??
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,954
10,338
113
#35
I get that, but we get Christ speaking in Matthew concerning the last days. Eschatology is GREEK!! The Gospels for the most part WERE NOT GREEK!!

So, I do not care what the Greeks termed the last days, if I was going to coin any phrase designated by Christ from the Gospels, it better be of Aramaic/Hebrew descent!!

And Daniel was 100% HEBREW, not GREEK!!
This is not true. Part of daniel was written in Aramic

As for the NT, Most of the NT was written in greek. So you would need to interpret the greek, as it was the language used.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
777
113
#36
Is this true? Can you show me?
Old Greek, Theodotion, Vulgate, Masoretic text, at least. Not to say that manuscripts differ, for example Vaticanus from Alexandrinus etc.

There are even problems with what is Daniel and what is not, because some portions of Daniel are only in Greek.

Also, when I tried to study the 9th chapter of Daniel, the text is so ambiguous (in both Theodotion and Old Greek) that I was unable to decide which of possible translations is the right one.

I am not sure how can I "show it", though...?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,196
2,362
113
#37
Old Greek, Theodotion, Vulgate, Masoretic text, at least. Not to say that manuscripts differ, for example Vaticanus from Alexandrinus etc.

There are even problems with what is Daniel and what is not, because some portions of Daniel are only in Greek.

Also, when I tried to study the 9th chapter of Daniel, the text is so ambiguous (in both Theodotion and Old Greek) that I was unable to decide which of possible translations is the right one.

I am not sure how can I "show it", though...?
So Genesis is out, Daniel is out.

I looked up ScriptureForAll and there is only one hebrew text for Daniel, so what are you talking about?
In greek there is the septuagint obviously. Which is fine too. But in hebrew there was only one text.

Arent you at all worried that in a few moments you will become a secular humanist?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,093
3,015
113
#38
I do not understand quite what you have posted. Which is the one Hebrew text for Daniel?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,093
3,015
113
#39
So Genesis is out, Daniel is out.

I looked up ScriptureForAll and there is only one hebrew text for Daniel, so what are you talking about?
In greek there is the septuagint obviously. Which is fine too. But in hebrew there was only one text.

Arent you at all worried that in a few moments you will become a secular humanist?
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt3401.htm

This link should take you to Daniel, Hebrew-English online.....let me know if you get there.
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
314
83
#40
Why don’t you respond to people who responded to romans 9 yet? Don’t you think we need to do this before we move on??
nope. If there is argument I'm not participating. This is what I have taken HOURS and HOURS to study and these are my conclusions. period. Disagree or agree as you wish.