BORN AGAIN, A CHANGE IN BODY NOT IN MIND

[RickShafer]

No Ozell,
I must admit, I hadn't considered the physical, material air we breath being holy.
Jesus was speaking of the Holy Spirit(Pneuma) - which literally means wind, because there
is not a word for spirit in the dialect He was using.
He compared the Holy Spirit to the wind because that is the physical element It is most like.
John 6:63 "My words are spirit,(pneuma), and they are life; the flesh,(material elements), profits nothing."

 

[ozell]

I'm having a hard time understanding the PURPOSE of this thread, so I'll just ask. Was the thread started because you are offended or annoyed by people today using the term "born again" to descibe the fact that they have been saved? Or are you trying to point out that we still sin all the time anyway because we are not yet "glorified"? Once we are saved our past sins are erased by Christ's work on the cross. Once we are saved, we strive NOT to sin through the help of the Holy Spirit. Everyone knows we are going to be glorified & we are not perfect now, although I know some people who seem perfect to me? What is it your beef?

read it slowly its not hard to understand

BORN AGAIN, A CHANGE IN BODY NOT IN MIND

there is no beef.

what are you saved from
how are you born again and you are still flesh

if you are born again you are telling me you are incorruptible

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

are you incorruptible?

 

[ozell]

No Ozell,
I must admit, I hadn't considered the physical, material air we breath being holy.
Jesus was speaking of the Holy Spirit(Pneuma) - which literally means wind, because there
is not a word for spirit in the dialect He was using.
He compared the Holy Spirit to the wind because that is the physical element It is most like.
John 6:63 "My words are spirit,(pneuma), and they are life; the flesh,(material elements), profits nothing."

yes

but all that i said I can prove are holy and are spirit

so when you see the word spirit in the bible it MUST be put in its proper place

 

[ozell]

We renew our minds, as Jesus says. The mind and the motive of it, are the key to this.

is the mind born again or is it retrained or converted?

 

[RickShafer]

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved

O.K. i understand Ozell, but where does the comforter come into it?
I mean I Cor. 1:30 clearly states the order we receive Christ.
First wisdom - (knowledge that we are sinners and need a savior)
Then Justification - (God justifies us under the blood of Jesus)
Then Sanctification - (The life long process of being moulded into the image of Jesus Christ)
Then Redemption - (or glorification - when the believers are united with Him)

 

[ozell]

Ozell,
What denomination are you?
I, nor anyone else on the earth has heard of this doctrine you espouse?
That being 'born again' happens at the second coming.
I guess that leaves out sanctification, - (Another work of the Holy Spirit).
But then how does God know who to redeem? - If everyone is the same?

of course you don't know

because your doctrine born again is from a denomination

one script puts your born gain now in a turmoil

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


Rick are you a in corrupt seed ?

we are born again by the word of God

lets read where the word of God is Spirit

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

i don't belong to a denomination. why? this is the dumbing down of God's people a denomination is

read the book and let the Lord teach you

are you incorruptible seed?

watch your answer because i will respond with the word that says you are not.

 

[RickShafer]

yes

but all that i said I can prove are holy and are spirit

so when you see the word spirit in the bible it MUST be put in its proper place

I thought it was, not because you have said, but because Jesus said we must be born of the pneuma - Holy Spirit.
Which is the time we are converted.
Which brings me back to the garden of Gethsemane when the disciples fled........
but they were converted before the final day; that is how they all became willing to die to spread the gospel.

 

[ozell]

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved

O.K. i understand Ozell, but where does the comforter come into it?
I mean I Cor. 1:30 clearly states the order we receive Christ.
First wisdom - (knowledge that we are sinners and need a savior)
Then Justification - (God justifies us under the blood of Jesus)
Then Sanctification - (The life long process of being moulded into the image of Jesus Christ)
Then Redemption - (or glorification - when the believers are united with Him)

i don't want to answer this because all you have to do is go over to John and read what the job of the Comforter or spirit of truth?

this is what you are suppose to know people who speak of the HS should know this I do, we read the same book. His job does not say born again

now look at every definition you have above and they have one thing in common

when are we sanctified
when are we justified
when are we redeemed

those who are blessed at the 1st resurrection those who are not blessed at that time has to wait to judgement day

unless you think you are now?

 

[RickShafer]

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


'BY THE WORD OF GOD'; - not by the second coming.

There........It Is Written.

The corruptible is being born of water-(the womb), in this life.
The incorruptible is being born by the word of God - (rightly divided)
It's as plain as the nose on your face Ozell.

 

[ozell]

yes

but all that i said I can prove are holy and are spirit

so when you see the word spirit in the bible it MUST be put in its proper place

I thought it was, not because you have said, but because Jesus said we must be born of the pneuma - Holy Spirit.
Which is the time we are converted.
Which brings me back to the garden of Gethsemane when the disciples fled........
but they were converted before the final day; that is how they all became willing to die to spread the gospel.

this is why I put Peter and John writings what holy spirit is Jesus talking about?

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Rick

the apostles had to be taught
Paul had to be retaught even by a angel and hat are the angels ministering spirits

think about this

what are we born again by? the word of God


i

 

[ozell]

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


'BY THE WORD OF GOD'; - not by the second coming.

There........It Is Written.

The corruptible is being born of water-(the womb), in this life.
The incorruptible is being born by the word of God - (rightly divided)
It's as plain as the nose on your face Ozell.

Rick what are the words that Jesus says that will change you from flesh to spirit?

 

[RickShafer]

'now look at every definition you have above and they have one thing in common

when are we sanctified
when are we justified
when are we redeemed

those who are blessed at the 1st resurrection those who are not blessed at that time has to wait to judgement day'

Your forgetting about time.
God created time and He is not constrained by it. - (limited by it)
Time does not qualify God's work;
God's work flows through the eges, (ages).
These are four distinctly different aspects to the life of the believer.

 

[ozell]

i have to go to bible sabbath class

so I will leave you with this

show me one person other than Jesus who is said they are or was born again?


just one person?

 

[ozell]

'now look at every definition you have above and they have one thing in common

when are we sanctified
when are we justified
when are we redeemed

those who are blessed at the 1st resurrection those who are not blessed at that time has to wait to judgement day'

Your forgetting about time.
God created time and He is not constrained by it. - (limited by it)
Time does not qualify God's work;
God's work flows through the eges, (ages).
These are four distinctly different aspects to the life of the believer.

Rick
when is a person sure that he is born again or saved?

everything before this time is hope?

 

[RickShafer]

Rick what are the words that Jesus says that will change you from flesh to spirit?

Ozell,
Mankind is three parts already, the flesh, the soul, AND the spirit.
You aren't changed from flesh to spirit, as if they are two distinct states.
The spirit of man is indwelled by the Holy Spirit while he walks the earth.

 

[ozell]

Revelation 11

King James Version (KJV)

11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.


Rick
the 2 witnesses where flesh when they were killed, when the Lord uttered these words what did they become

come up hither
they became something else other than flesh

 

[ozell]

Rick what are the words that Jesus says that will change you from flesh to spirit?

Ozell,
Mankind is three parts already, the flesh, the soul, AND the spirit.
You aren't changed from flesh to spirit, as if they are two distinct states.
The spirit of man is indwelled by the Holy Spirit while he walks the earth.

lets read the creation of man

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

what is man?

 

[RickShafer]

'show me one person other than Jesus who is said they are or was born again?
just one person?' - So said Ozell.


Let me get my concordance out,........because the listings of these is going to take awhile.
Gal.4:29 - "But then as he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that WAS BORN after the
Spirit, even so it is now" - Paul , speaking of Ishmael persecuting Isaac.(a real human being that lived;
Paul said he was born after the Spirit).
I Peter 1:22,23 - "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto
unfeigned love of the brethren. See that you love one another with a pure heart fervently:
BEING BORN AGAIN, not of corruptible seed, but incorruptible, by the word of God, which
liveth and abideth forever."

BEING - the current state, not future, not past; but present state of being born again.

And I John has seven references to being born of God in the present state.

John Chapter three is all over the new testament. - "Ye must be born of the Spirit" -
Which is present tense in I Peter 1:23, I John 2:29,3:9,again in 3:9,4:7,5:1,5:4,and 5:18.

Your dividing of the scripture is wrong.
And as for the apostles not proclaiming they were 'born again', there acts testify as to the change
in nature each and everyone of them went through after the Holy Spirit fell on them at Pentecost.
Each one was willing to die(and did, except John who was boiled but survived).
This is a far cry from scattering at the garden(before the resurrection).
As Jesus told them - "When you are converted"; the conversion came when they were indwelled
with the Holy Spirit on the 50th day after His ascension.(The day of Pentecost, when HIS Spirit was poured out on all flesh who would believe in Him).

 

[ozell]

Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

When did you change your vile body?

When habit been fashioned like his glorious body?

It has not and won't be until Jesus comes

 

[ozell]

I Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

Why would Paul mention the dead being raised?

I Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Look at verse 50, notice what it says "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God".

Remembers Jesus said something similar to this in John chapter 3.

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. This is the Fathers Kingdom, which Jesus spoke of. During the Lord's thousand-year reign with the saint, flesh and blood beings will still be on the earth along with spirit beings.

There will be only spirit beings after the second resurrection. Remember what

Nicodemus asked the Lord? He asked Him, " how could a man be born again when he was already old?" And the Lord answered by saying, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

In order for you to be born again you must be changed into a spiritual body