Born Again Speaking in Tongues

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,595
13,857
113
Who said anything about a Nazarene (a vow) calling himself the Messiah ? I have doubts if he know what a Nazarene even is or the purpose of the ceremonial law .

It sounds like one of those Judaism things .Follow the Rabbi.
Unfortunately, your unfamiliarity with the nuances of English are leading you to wacky conclusions.

"Messianic" is not "Messiah". The former is normally used of ethnic Jews who have accepted Jesus as the Messiah. "Nazarene" is a resident of Nazareth, where Jesus was raised; "Nazirite" is one who has taken a specific vow.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
stonesoffire, post: 3961773, member: 181848"]There is still two workings of Holy Spirit. The new birth. And Holy Spirit baptism. They are not the same.

this is evidenced in Acts and the opposition to this truth being taught in cessationist denoms illustrates the rearranging of the book of Acts by those who have convinced themselves it no longer happens

even a cursory reading of the events in the book of Acts makes this clear
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,563
13,547
113
58
Umm, this is quite revealing, one get saved after they are water baptised? The Book of Acts is a pattern for all true believers. Get saved then baptized...
Amen! (Acts 8:36-38; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31-34; 26:18)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,563
13,547
113
58
stonesoffire, post: 3961773, member: 181848"]There is still two workings of Holy Spirit. The new birth. And Holy Spirit baptism. They are not the same.

this is evidenced in Acts and the opposition to this truth being taught in cessationist denoms illustrates the rearranging of the book of Acts by those who have convinced themselves it no longer happens

even a cursory reading of the events in the book of Acts makes this clear
Two workings of the Holy Spirit. The new birth/baptized by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13). The "infilling" of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4). By "labeling" the "infilling" of the Holy Spirit as "baptism of the Holy Spirit," it sounds like you are confusing the two workings.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
I have no problem with the scripture but you lack an understanding of what the scripture is teaching. The Holy Spirit does not guide believers into the heresy that you espouse. You use scripture like a drunk uses a light pole. Not for light but in a feeble effort to keep you from falling on your face. All those at Pentecost who spoke with the cloven tongues as of fire upon them were already saved and baptized in the Holy Spirit. They were filled with the Holy Spirit to minister the word of God in the power of God proclaiming the message of the gospel that Messiah had come was slain and risen from the dead to redeem them from their sins. They proclaimed the part you always omit.

The tempter quoted scripture to Jesus in the desert. Jesus corrected his error because he quoted scripture without knowledge of the truth. The serpent quoted what God had said in the garden. The serpent used what God had said without knowledge of the truth and led Eve to sin against God.

Without the Holy Spirit to guide and direct one cannot arrive at the correct meaning and understanding of the scripture. In may ways this is what separates sheep from goats.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Amen... it would seem to be brother Waggles ..excuse for not comparing scripture to scripture or in other words as below the kind that fall backward when filled..

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: Isaiah 28:10

Waggles wrote ... I added no interpretation I merely quoted scripture alone Mark 16:15-20 the problem of unbelief is yours and yours alone . the problem with that is what does
That interpretation of God in Mark informs us it is a series of signs as metaphors, as one sign that follows after hearing the gospel. the new tongue. . And clearly does not leads some to desire the mystical wonderment as a source of faith . Christians I would think follow after the one source of faith, as it is written . No such thing as a sign and wonder .Or a sign that causes a wonderment that some mistake as a source of faith .

Its the sign like the sign that reads. . . You have just left the Chicago city limits . Come again . Not a sign that leads and reads. . . . Chicago 49 miles. . . enjoy the sights and experiences.

The question it would seem . . . signs of experiences or a exclusive faith that comes from hearing prophecy? Which teaching master"

What does the law of signs in 1 Corinthians 14 : confirm . Prophecy God's tongue, or experiences (signs) ?

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them "that believe", but to them that believe not: but "prophesying" serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14

Satan as in Mathew 4 simply tries and turns things upside down to take away the understanding inspired for above not seen and have the inspiration earthy of the devil . We are made aware of those wiles.

The experience a wonderment new age, founded in the old age doctrine as a false gospel is on the increase. Makes me wonder?

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
I am not saying a person can only recieve the baptism by laying on of hands. I have never belived that.
The pattern is mostly laying on of hands.
Some get the baptism when all alone.
God is sovereign
The parable or pattern represents a metaphor.

Since God is not served by human hands in any way shape or form .(Acts 17) He can by the use of His hand (representing will) move a unbeliever to bring the gospel just as easy as one who does believes.

His name is Jealous. I would think he would never share the glory of his work as a will with the corruptible hands of man . Laying on of hands is one of the manners of prayer just as the folding of hand or bowing down by which we make a request an appeal to God. .

I would ask. What do the laying on of hands as a metaphor signify to you? What does the metaphor "water" represent throughout the Bible ?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
Acts 10
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Art Montgomery ,when ministering to muslims ,gets them baptised in the Holy Spirit first,because they are too resistant of anything concerning Jesus.
(The Holy Spirit points men to Jesus)
I'm sorry I do not know who Art Montgomery is, however, IF the Holy Spirit has empowered them they had to believe in Jesus 1 cor 12:3 says:
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

the context of Acts 10: 47 is they Christian Jews did not think gentiles could be saved or were allowed to be baptized in water as they were.

In addition, Peter said in Acts chapter two after the people asked them what must we do? verse 37.

Peter said in verse 38

" Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Repentance is the first thing. Jesus said No man comes to the Father but by me. John 14:6

I too have ministered to Muslims If they received the Holy Spirit they have believed in Christ in their hearts. They received Power to be a witness as Jesus said we would in Acts 1: 8 If they are resistant to Jesus as Lord they can not be saved. God knows thier heart.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Rom 6:2 Of course not! How can we who died as far as sin is concerned go on living in it?

Rom 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into union with the Messiah Jesus were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4 Therefore, through baptism we were buried with him into his death so that, just as the Messiah was raised from the dead by the Father's glory, we too may live an entirely new life.

Rom 6:5 For if we have become united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.

Rom 6:6 We know that our old natures were crucified with him so that our sin-laden bodies might be rendered powerless and we might no longer be slaves to sin.

Rom 6:7 For the person who has died has been freed from sin.

Rom 6:8 Now if we have died with the Messiah, we believe that we will also live with him,

Rom 6:9 for we know that the Messiah, who was raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has mastery over him.

Rom 6:10 For when he died, he died once and for all as far as sin is concerned. But now that he is alive, he lives for God.

Rom 6:11 In the same way, you too must continually consider yourselves dead as far as sin is concerned, but living for God through the Messiah Jesus.

I think I might understand what you are saying. It’s true that the blood of Jesus, atonement for our sin yet not just ours but the sin of all the world, was shed, the scripture says, and has the action of crucifying our sin nature, and rising in resurrection life. This occurs at our new birth.

But, EG, the scripture doesn’t call this a baptism. But, in truth....we definitely are whelmed by Jesus. This occurs before we are water baptized.

IMO, water baptism is what we can look back to when we are assaulted by doubt, for it does come to try our faith. So it’s important to understand what has happened to us.

This may be the reason why the church of my childhood teaches blood baptism. Am I right though about what you are teaching here, or wrong?

I still don’t agree.

For this reason...

This is from bible search.com. I agree with this part, but not the whole article.


As Paul was praying in Damascus, a disciple came and told him what he must do to be saved.

Acts 22:16 ‘And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’

What washed away his sins? Certainly, it was the blood of Jesus! But, without Paul’s responding by faith in being baptized, he would not have received the benefits of His blood. Rev. 1:5, Col. 2:11-14.

After we become Christians, the blood of Jesus continues to cleanse us as we continue to respond in obedient faith as God directs.

1 John 1:7 but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I don’t agree with the part that says baptism is what gives us the benefits of His blood washing us. But, Paul is a Jew and some baptize daily.

I don’t know if this is true, but I’ve read that Jesus wasn’t just from Nazareth, that He was called a Nazarene, but was of the sect, Nazarenes. And was their way to be “washed” daily before the day began.


Not teaching this. I don’t know, but it would be beneficial for our unity to know. IMO.

It was a daily baptism not a bath. Lol.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Wrong. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the conversion experience. This is the biblical experience that all believers have in common. There is a filling of the Holy Spirit that was evidenced at Pentecost. Many believers have this experience without tongues as many claim today. Daily filling of the Holy Spirit to walk in paths of righteousness for the glory of God.

Too much fantasy in the modern church to be of any real value to God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Wrong. 😇
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Who said anything about a Nazarene (a vow) calling himself the Messiah ? I have doubts if he know what a Nazarene even is or the purpose of the ceremonial law .

It sounds like one of those Judaism things .Follow the Rabbi.
? Not me. Try reading it again slowly.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Rom 6:2 Of course not! How can we who died as far as sin is concerned go on living in it?

Rom 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into union with the Messiah Jesus were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4 Therefore, through baptism we were buried with him into his death so that, just as the Messiah was raised from the dead by the Father's glory, we too may live an entirely new life.

Rom 6:5 For if we have become united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.

Rom 6:6 We know that our old natures were crucified with him so that our sin-laden bodies might be rendered powerless and we might no longer be slaves to sin.

Rom 6:7 For the person who has died has been freed from sin.

Rom 6:8 Now if we have died with the Messiah, we believe that we will also live with him,

Rom 6:9 for we know that the Messiah, who was raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has mastery over him.

Rom 6:10 For when he died, he died once and for all as far as sin is concerned. But now that he is alive, he lives for God.

Rom 6:11 In the same way, you too must continually consider yourselves dead as far as sin is concerned, but living for God through the Messiah Jesus.

I think I might understand what you are saying. It’s true that the blood of Jesus, atonement for our sin yet not just ours but the sin of all the world, was shed, the scripture says, and has the action of crucifying our sin nature, and rising in resurrection life. This occurs at our new birth.

But, EG, the scripture doesn’t call this a baptism. But, in truth....we definitely are whelmed by Jesus. This occurs before we are water baptized.
Rom 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into union with the Messiah Jesus were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4 Therefore, through baptism we were buried with him into his death so that, just as the Messiah was raised from the dead by the Father's glory, we too may live an entirely new life.

This is not baptism? Then what is it??

IMO, water baptism is what we can look back to when we are assaulted by doubt, for it does come to try our faith. So it’s important to understand what has happened to us.
Water i no mentioned in these verses. The things we are baptized into are His death, His burial, And himself. Water is found no where in the passage, It is a major error to assume just because you see the word baptize it must mean water. What we are plunged or immersed into is written in lack and white, and it is NOT WATER

This may be the reason why the church of my childhood teaches blood baptism. Am I right though about what you are teaching here, or wrong?

I still don’t agree.

For this reason...

This is from bible search.com. I agree with this part, but not the whole article.


As Paul was praying in Damascus, a disciple came and told him what he must do to be saved.

Acts 22:16 ‘And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’

What washed away his sins? Certainly, it was the blood of Jesus! But, without Paul’s responding by faith in being baptized, he would not have received the benefits of His blood. Rev. 1:5, Col. 2:11-14.

After we become Christians, the blood of Jesus continues to cleanse us as we continue to respond in obedient faith as God directs.

1 John 1:7 but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I don’t agree with the part that says baptism is what gives us the benefits of His blood washing us. But, Paul is a Jew and some baptize daily.

I don’t know if this is true, but I’ve read that Jesus wasn’t just from Nazareth, that He was called a Nazarene, but was of the sect, Nazarenes. And was their way to be “washed” daily before the day began.


Not teaching this. I don’t know, but it would be beneficial for our unity to know. IMO.
So you too believe in water immersion for salvation? I hope I misunderstood you here!

Because if so, This is the most troublesome thing I have ever heard you say, I am deeply concerned now!

 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Two workings of the Holy Spirit. The new birth/baptized by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13). The "infilling" of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4). By "labeling" the "infilling" of the Holy Spirit as "baptism of the Holy Spirit," it sounds like you are confusing the two workings.
I don’t think so Mr. mailman.

It’s very obvious that those who have experienced Holy Spirit agree. But, let’s take a looksy..

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit all of us—Jews and Greeks, slaves and free—were baptized into one body and were all privileged to drink from one Spirit.

What baptism? Some of us overlook the fact that the early church were all baptized in Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues and prophesied.

Now don’t throw at me that all do not have the gift of tongues.

The problem with that is it’s a gift, not the language of the spiritual man or woman. This gift is equal to prophecy but must have another with the gift of interpretation. I myself, do not have interpretation. This gift is for the purpose of giving a message from God to an individual, or a fellowship.

I don’t think you were involved with this thread or the others where this was explained. Many times too.

Absolutelys posts having to do with the laying on of hands is very important. Some do not receive without this. When a prophet or apostle lays hands on man, there’s the release. They have anointing to do this.

Some give up if they don’t receive right away after asking. We should never give up because this is our personal prayer language and it builds us up within. Edifies. It’s for us all. But, the gifts are according to His purposes for us individually.

It’s our Spirit speaking through our voice in anointing.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,563
13,547
113
58
I don’t think so Mr. mailman.

It’s very obvious that those who have experienced Holy Spirit agree. But, let’s take a looksy..

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit all of us—Jews and Greeks, slaves and free—were baptized into one body and were all privileged to drink from one Spirit.

What baptism? Some of us overlook the fact that the early church were all baptized in Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues and prophesied.

Now don’t throw at me that all do not have the gift of tongues.

The problem with that is it’s a gift, not the language of the spiritual man or woman. This gift is equal to prophecy but must have another with the gift of interpretation. I myself, do not have interpretation. This gift is for the purpose of giving a message from God to an individual, or a fellowship.

I don’t think you were involved with this thread or the others where this was explained. Many times too.

Absolutelys posts having to do with the laying on of hands is very important. Some do not receive without this. When a prophet or apostle lays hands on man, there’s the release. They have anointing to do this.

Some give up if they don’t receive right away after asking. We should never give up because this is our personal prayer language and it builds us up within. Edifies. It’s for us all. But, the gifts are according to His purposes for us individually.

It’s our Spirit speaking through our voice in anointing.
1 Corinthians 12:27 - Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. (y)
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Rom 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into union with the Messiah Jesus were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4 Therefore, through baptism we were buried with him into his death so that, just as the Messiah was raised from the dead by the Father's glory, we too may live an entirely new life.

This is not baptism? Then what is it??



This is water baptism. Symbolizing our death with Jesus’s Cross. His shed blood washes us from sin. Water is used to show that cleansing for He is the Word! Then we are told we are washed by the Word.

This is not Holy Spirit baptism. BUT! Some have come up out of the waters speaking in tongues. So for those? It’s both symbol and experiential. Blood and water.



Water i no mentioned in these verses. The things we are baptized into are His death, His burial, And himself. Water is found no where in the passage, It is a major error to assume just because you see the word baptize it must mean water. What we are plunged or immersed into is written in lack and white, and it is NOT WATER


Am tiring...I’ve said before in posts to you...death, burial, resurrection life with water baptism signifies the new birth.

The baptism of Holy Spirit is different. Holy Spirit empowers and gifts are given. When one is used in a gift, the flesh cannot speak or perform. Holy Spirit is in control.



So you too believe in water immersion for salvation? I hope I misunderstood you here!

Because if so, This is the most troublesome thing I have ever heard you say, I am deeply concerned now!


NO I don’t believe that. For the second time now! You misunderstand, misconstrue, or just plain don’t comprehend what I am writing.

And now for my 4th of July break....phew!

Happy 4th of July to you all!
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
1 Corinthians 12:27 - Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. (y)

Good scripture. But do all speak with tongues is listed with the gifts. 😉
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,563
13,547
113
58
Good scripture. But do all speak with tongues is listed with the gifts. 😉
So speaking in tongues is not a gift of the Holy Spirit? :unsure: Why do certain people on this thread make this out to be so complicated?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
Biblically correct and most of all confirmed by the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 2:1 ¶ And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,563
13,547
113
58
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit all of us—Jews and Greeks, slaves and free—were baptized into one body and were all privileged to drink from one Spirit.

What baptism? Some of us overlook the fact that the early church were all baptized in Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues and prophesied.
Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Where does the Bible say that EVERYONE in the early church who have been baptized by one Spirit into one body spoke in tongues and prophesied? :unsure: