Born Again Speaking in Tongues

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Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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Ok fair question and will explain as I understand it Remeber Jesus told Peter in verse 15 of Chapter 10
"What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

this is the starting point of the Narrative of those who Peter was to go and see.

In Verse 19 the "Spirit"
was leading Peter to three men who were looking for him. after Peter got there he began to preach in verse

Verse 34. In verse 36 Peter says :
"The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus ChristHe is Lord of all— 37 that word you know,

These men have heard the Gospel message Peter said they Knew it. Past tense. Jesus is Lord was preached repentance was preached. That is what Peter just said.

"which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: "

Peter continues and somewhere in the message, they have received by faith the Lord Jesus through the Preaching of the Gospel.

Remember it was Jesus who said the preaching of the gospel would save people by grace through faith.

Verse 44 says :
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.

" HEARD" THE WORD past tense the word Heard means in the Greek
to attend to, consider what is or has been said to comprehend, to understand



Word" is logos here the same as in John 1 Speaking of Jesus which is the context that is being preached by Peter they heard it they received and then the Holy Spirit Confirmed the Word AS Jesus said the Holy Spirit will do In John 14.
One more very telling thing after this event.
Peter says in verse 47


"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? "

How did Peter receive the empowerment of the Holy Spirit? After he was saved. Jesus said the Power of the Holy Spirit was for the purpose of witnessing Acts 1:8 Jesus Speaking why? because they were already saved. again verse 48 to affirms a past tense experience

they were saved just as Peter said in Acts t2 when asked: "what must we do to be saved "? Believe = saved than be baptized.

same thing right here. we do not have to split hairs when the normative is seen throughout the book of Acts.
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
You are keying off of a concept.
Your premise is "the Holy Spirit can not come upon an unsaved person"
Your entire observation of acts 10 is framed in that belief. Not in what happened.
To you ,"it can not possible be,therefore let my prove my belief"

But to think the Holy Spirit has some "off limits" law of heaven to the unsaved is poppycock.
It is,as a matter of fact,the HOLY SPIRIT that plows the heart of the unsaved in conviction and wooing into salvation. The Holy Spirit leads men to Christ. PRE CONVERSION.
So we have the Holy Spirit Working a mighty work in ...hold your breath....unsaved gentiles.

To you...an impossibility
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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In a sense, yes. Reflexive effectively means "reflected on self". "I hit myself in the face" uses "myself" as a reflexive pronoun; the word "myself" replaces the implied "me" or my name, which would lead people to think that I hit someone other than myself.

In the verse in question, the phrase, "As it is written, '...'," the "it" refers to what is written. Another way of writing that might be, "As the Scripture clearly says, '...'" or "As is written in the Scriptures, '....'" The "it" merely refers to what is written, without the awkward sentence structure.

No other meaning, like none at all. It's not an issue of 'unseen' or 'hidden' meaning. It's simply an aspect of English grammar.
Thanks that was helpful.

The "it" refers to the kind of set in stone media as a living law in respect to what is written. The book of the law the Bible has no equal. It alone contains the law of God by which we can know His Spirit ..

No oral laws after the philosophies of men

The law of the unseen eternal will of God.. written by the finger of God etched in stone to represent our hard hearts.

When confronted with a another media the voice of the father of lies the father of illusions in respect to the unseen world when those lies created a vison in the fleshly mind of Jesus . the father gave the words as it is written .it alone is the once source by which we can hear God.

Jesus set the exapmple and would have nothing to do with what some call. . out of the body experiences of I heard a new revelation, I had a dream . Which is simply spirits of lies bring in things that are not there

Don’t let anyone declare you lost when you refuse to worship angels, as they say you must. They have seen a vision, they say, and know you should. These proud men (though they claim to be so humble) have a very clever imagination. Colossians 2:18 TLB

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, Colossians 2:18 KJ
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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You are keying off of a concept.
Your premise is "the Holy Spirit can not come upon an unsaved person"
Your entire observation of acts 10 is framed in that belief. Not in what happened.
To you ,"it can not possible be,therefore let my prove my belief"

But to think the Holy Spirit has some "off limits" law of heaven to the unsaved is poppycock.
It is,as a matter of fact,the HOLY SPIRIT that plows the heart of the unsaved in conviction and wooing into salvation. The Holy Spirit leads men to Christ. PRE CONVERSION.
So we have the Holy Spirit Working a mighty work in ...hold your breath....unsaved gentiles.

To you...an impossibility
No, actually I am speaking from what I see in the working of the Holy Spirit as normative and How God has worked with man and women who HE has called first, then the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of the living God or the Spirit of the Lord would come upon the person after they were called i.e. elected. Prophets, Kings, Preist, judges, and rulers. In the New Testament Jesus said in John chapter 14 how the Holy Spirit would work in the believer. Jesus is the way, the life, and the Truth. this is about salvation eternal salvation. verse 6. You have to have known HIM as Lord and Savior this is consistent with all the Apostles writings and teachings.
Jesus asked do you Beleive? verse 10. verse 11 told to believe. in verse 15 Jesus says you have to Love HIM and obey His word then HE will send the Comforter Believe, obey or act in faith then receive the Holy Spirit. I never said the Holy Spirit could not come on an unsaved person, what the word says that the working of the Holy Spirit is to as John 16:8 says

"8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;

after they believe in Christ AS Jesus said they receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not plow the heart, he woos them to surrender to Christ first. I'm not the one who set the standard Saved by grace through faith. Beleive repent and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 10 is clear enough that they "Heard" the word. And just because it does not say it as you think it should the full context of salvation and the gift of the Holy Spirit is s Christ said it would be. The working of the Holy Spirit is as Christ said HE would work The Holy Spirit would not speak of Himself but of Christ for salvation. IF you are not a child of God, saved, born again you do not have the indwelling Holy Spirit until you have accepted Christ as Lord and Savior.
 

Waggles

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Sep 21, 2017
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IF you are not a child of God, saved, born again you do not have the indwelling Holy Spirit until you have accepted Christ as Lord and Savior.
Stop splitting hairs you lot and that goes for you too @Absolutely
God works in the lives of those that he calls and is calling to salvation in many various ways.
Some people hear the full gospel preached and repent and are water baptised and then receive the Holy Spirit.
Some people hear the full gospel preached and repent and and God baptises them and they receive the Holy Spirit, and
then they undergo water baptism.
Some people receive the Holy Spirit and do nothing. Even refusing to be baptised in water.
Some people, like me, receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues as a child some thirty years before I ended up in a Pentecostal
church and got water baptised.

God is running this programme not us.
And yes a person knows that they are baptised in the Holy Spirit because they do speak forth in a new tongue.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
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Stop splitting hairs you lot and that goes for you too @Absolutely
God works in the lives of those that he calls and is calling to salvation in many various ways.
Some people hear the full gospel preached and repent and are water baptised and then receive the Holy Spirit.
Some people hear the full gospel preached and repent and and God baptises them and they receive the Holy Spirit, and
then they undergo water baptism.
Some people receive the Holy Spirit and do nothing. Even refusing to be baptised in water.
Some people, like me, receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues as a child some thirty years before I ended up in a Pentecostal
church and got water baptised.

God is running this programme not us.
And yes a person knows that they are baptised in the Holy Spirit because they do speak forth in a new tongue.
you assume there is more than one way to Salvation and I'm splitting hairs?

I will say it again There is no other way of salvation BUT through Jesus Christ Period. Jesus said HE is the only way. Jesus is the final authority and His word. How they hear the Gospel message too is established Matt 28:18-19 Mark 16:15-16 Jesus said how salvation will happen.

1cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


IF think God saves in more than one way When God has said It is through His Christ spoken by the Prophets, Spoken by the Lord Himself you are not splitting hairs you are just unbiblical
 

Waggles

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Sep 21, 2017
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you assume there is more than one way to Salvation and I'm splitting hairs?
You are misinterpreting everything that I wrote.
I never wrote that there are many ways to salvation.

God calls people to himself in many ways and works in people's lives in many ways to bring them to the point of repentance and
belief in the full gospel. For all must in the end embrace Acts 2:38.

God works in the lives of those He calls often years before their salvation; such as miracles and divine protection before they
are born again.
And I have been witnessing for many many years to know that so many people have received the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues months or even years before they hear the gospel preached to them.
Like I said God is in charge not us.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
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You are misinterpreting everything that I wrote.
I never wrote that there are many ways to salvation.

God calls people to himself in many ways and works in people's lives in many ways to bring them to the point of repentance and
belief in the full gospel. For all must in the end embrace Acts 2:38.

God works in the lives of those He calls often years before their salvation; such as miracles and divine protection before they
are born again.
And I have been witnessing for many many years to know that so many people have received the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues months or even years before they hear the gospel preached to them.
Like I said God is in charge not us.

"God works in the lives of those that he calls and is calling to salvation in many various ways. "

THE WAY IS JESUS. the one who makes the way known the Holy Spirit through the Preaching of the Word known as the Gospel.

IF Jesus is not the Way of salvation then there is no salvation.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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You are misinterpreting everything that I wrote.
I never wrote that there are many ways to salvation.

God calls people to himself in many ways and works in people's lives in many ways to bring them to the point of repentance and
belief in the full gospel. For all must in the end embrace Acts 2:38.

God works in the lives of those He calls often years before their salvation; such as miracles and divine protection before they
are born again.
And I have been witnessing for many many years to know that so many people have received the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues months or even years before they hear the gospel preached to them.
Like I said God is in charge not us.
It would seem you are trying to sell something? What is tongues? What kind of evidence ? Where do we find the foundation as to the purpose..? How do we seek after it...?
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
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"God works in the lives of those that he calls and is calling to salvation in many various ways. "
And what follows this first sentence ???
a list of examples from personal history of myself and many other people that they have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit
in many different ways.
My post has does not promote any alternatives to the gospel of Jesus
You and Absolutely were spending all your time arguing over details of scripture and splitting hairs about who did what first.
Man get off the eggshells ...

Some people hear the full gospel preached and repent and are water baptised and then receive the Holy Spirit.
Some people hear the full gospel preached and repent and and God baptises them and they receive the Holy Spirit, and
then they undergo water baptism.
Some people receive the Holy Spirit and do nothing. Even refusing to be baptised in water.
Some people, like me, receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues as a child some thirty years before I ended up in a Pentecostal
church and got water baptised.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,227
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And what follows this first sentence ???
a list of examples from personal history of myself and many other people that they have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit
in many different ways.
My post has does not promote any alternatives to the gospel of Jesus
You and Absolutely were spending all your time arguing over details of scripture and splitting hairs about who did what first.
Man get off the eggshells ...

Some people hear the full gospel preached and repent and are water baptised and then receive the Holy Spirit.
Some people hear the full gospel preached and repent and and God baptises them and they receive the Holy Spirit, and
then they undergo water baptism.
Some people receive the Holy Spirit and do nothing. Even refusing to be baptised in water.
Some people, like me, receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues as a child some thirty years before I ended up in a Pentecostal
church and got water baptised.
Clear evidence that you do not understand what the bible teaches regarding salvation.

Simplified version. One hears the gospel from the word of God. The Holy Spirit brings conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. The person then either repents and receives Christ or they reject Christ and continue in darkness. John 16:8-11 John 3:21 Romans 10:9-10,17.

There are no tongues in the gospel. Tongues are not a required evidence of salvation. Salvation includes the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. The indwelling Holy Spirit is required to understand the word of God beyond the elements of salvation. The sinner can understand that he is a sinner. The sinner can understand that God judges sin. The sinner can understand that if he does not receive Christ as his Savior he will remain condemned and go into the lake of fire on the GWT judgement day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,082
877
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And what follows this first sentence ???
a list of examples from personal history of myself and many other people that they have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit
in many different ways.
My post has does not promote any alternatives to the gospel of Jesus
You and Absolutely were spending all your time arguing over details of scripture and splitting hairs about who did what first.
Man get off the eggshells ...

Some people hear the full gospel preached and repent and are water baptised and then receive the Holy Spirit.
Some people hear the full gospel preached and repent and and God baptises them and they receive the Holy Spirit, and
then they undergo water baptism.
Some people receive the Holy Spirit and do nothing. Even refusing to be baptised in water.
Some people, like me, receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues as a child some thirty years before I ended up in a Pentecostal
church and got water baptised.
the discussion was between Abslautely and I about "can one be baptized in the Holy Spirit before salvation or they are saved", I do not see that in the word of God. And we were not arguing I stated his last question to me was a fair one. In which I answered as I see it scripture. Maybe you should have followed the context of our discussion.

your opinion of us splitting hairs is unfounded. Yet I do not see in your above post One scriptural ref to support your opinion. Nor do I see you provide any refute to the Biblical verses I used to support my understanding, of one can be baptized in the Holy Spirit before salvation. I do not see that in this chapter. However, IF one looks at the complete New testament such as John 14, 15, 16 and the conversions in all of the Acts and the remaining Letters from Paul on Salvation, they all happen before one is baptized in the Holy Spirit. IF you want to say it happens simultaneously, with salvation I could agree with that.
In addition you in your own explanation

prove my very point.

Some people hear the full gospel preached and repent and are water baptised and then receive the Holy Spirit.
Some people hear the full gospel preached and repent and and God baptises them and they receive the Holy Spirit, and
then they undergo water baptism.


FYI hear believe repent.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,530
883
113
And what follows this first sentence ???
a list of examples from personal history of myself and many other people that they have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit
in many different ways.
My post has does not promote any alternatives to the gospel of Jesus
You and Absolutely were spending all your time arguing over details of scripture and splitting hairs about who did what first.
Man get off the eggshells ...

Some people hear the full gospel preached and repent and are water baptised and then receive the Holy Spirit.
Some people hear the full gospel preached and repent and and God baptises them and they receive the Holy Spirit, and
then they undergo water baptism.
Some people receive the Holy Spirit and do nothing. Even refusing to be baptised in water.
Some people, like me, receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues as a child some thirty years before I ended up in a Pentecostal
church and got water baptised.
We receive the Holy Spirit in one way called "believing" or exercising a faith that come from hearing God. Not a noise we make .that would be exercising the wrong manner of faith not coming form prophecy.Tongue.what he says..

Most babies speak in the kind of tongue you are refering to. . . . hearing the gospel 30 years after their birth experience.. And soon as they are born tongues serves it purpose.

Problem is you will nor even identify what tongues is or why God refers to mocking those who refuse to believe (sola scriptura) and have developed their own gospel program .Some say preparing them for hearing the gospel

What is tongues in the Bible?

Where do we find the foundation for it? Is tongues.... I made a noise before I heard the gospel ?

You will not even look at the doctrine .But rather revert back to some noise you made and claim some kind of wonderment that fills something up with something self edifying ?

Waggles Why did God mock those in Isaiah 28 ?
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
2,328
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113
No, actually I am speaking from what I see in the working of the Holy Spirit as normative and How God has worked with man and women who HE has called first, then the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of the living God or the Spirit of the Lord would come upon the person after they were called i.e. elected. Prophets, Kings, Preist, judges, and rulers. In the New Testament Jesus said in John chapter 14 how the Holy Spirit would work in the believer. Jesus is the way, the life, and the Truth. this is about salvation eternal salvation. verse 6. You have to have known HIM as Lord and Savior this is consistent with all the Apostles writings and teachings.
Jesus asked do you Beleive? verse 10. verse 11 told to believe. in verse 15 Jesus says you have to Love HIM and obey His word then HE will send the Comforter Believe, obey or act in faith then receive the Holy Spirit. I never said the Holy Spirit could not come on an unsaved person, what the word says that the working of the Holy Spirit is to as John 16:8 says

"8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;

after they believe in Christ AS Jesus said they receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not plow the heart, he woos them to surrender to Christ first. I'm not the one who set the standard Saved by grace through faith. Beleive repent and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 10 is clear enough that they "Heard" the word. And just because it does not say it as you think it should the full context of salvation and the gift of the Holy Spirit is s Christ said it would be. The working of the Holy Spirit is as Christ said HE would work The Holy Spirit would not speak of Himself but of Christ for salvation. IF you are not a child of God, saved, born again you do not have the indwelling Holy Spirit until you have accepted Christ as Lord and Savior.
Uh,no acts 10 neither threatens your belief or the doctrine you admit to framing the Holy Spirit falling on the unsaved gentiles.

Now you frame "Calling" as saved.

Another misplacement as the word declares "many are called but few are chosen"
All are called. Jesus died for All.
An evangelists calls to his entire audience. They all get called.

Look,thevreason WHY a few,as opposed to all/many get saved is the pre emptive work of the Holy Spirit.

You are basically arguing that by association the gentiles were saved listening to peter.
Even those saved ones Finny would say "to all appearances they appear saved"
You do not know,but assume the gentiles were saved prior to speaking in tongues.

As far as ot anointing you prove that they were anointed BEFORE THE OFFICE...PRIOR TO.
NONE. of them were born again. All were without completion,but recieved the Holy Spirit.
IOW,The Holy Spirit coming on non born agains is not only plausable,it happened many times.

Who are we to tell the Holy Spirit ,"you cant do that"?
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,082
877
113
Uh,no acts 10 neither threatens your belief or the doctrine you admit to framing the Holy Spirit falling on the unsaved gentiles.

Now you frame "Calling" as saved.

Another misplacement as the word declares "many are called but few are chosen"
All are called. Jesus died for All.
An evangelists calls to his entire audience. They all get called.

Look,thevreason WHY a few,as opposed to all/many get saved is the pre emptive work of the Holy Spirit.

You are basically arguing that by association the gentiles were saved listening to peter.
Even those saved ones Finny would say "to all appearances they appear saved"
You do not know,but assume the gentiles were saved prior to speaking in tongues.

As far as ot anointing you prove that they were anointed BEFORE THE OFFICE...PRIOR TO.
NONE. of them were born again. All were without completion,but recieved the Holy Spirit.
IOW,The Holy Spirit coming on non born agains is not only plausable,it happened many times.

Who are we to tell the Holy Spirit ,"you cant do that"?
the relationship was established with those in the Old Testament was the point. But if you do not see the normative in the NEW Testament
Uh,no acts 10 neither threatens your belief or the doctrine you admit to framing the Holy Spirit falling on the unsaved gentiles.

Now you frame "Calling" as saved.

Another misplacement as the word declares "many are called but few are chosen"
All are called. Jesus died for All.
An evangelists calls to his entire audience. They all get called.

Look,thevreason WHY a few,as opposed to all/many get saved is the pre emptive work of the Holy Spirit.

You are basically arguing that by association the gentiles were saved listening to peter.
Even those saved ones Finny would say "to all appearances they appear saved"
You do not know,but assume the gentiles were saved prior to speaking in tongues.

As far as ot anointing you prove that they were anointed BEFORE THE OFFICE...PRIOR TO.
NONE. of them were born again. All were without completion,but recieved the Holy Spirit.
IOW,The Holy Spirit coming on non born agains is not only plausable,it happened many times.

Who are we to tell the Holy Spirit ,"you cant do that"?
you have a different understanding than I.

and you are not correct on my comments too.
Calling is what the Holy Spirit does in the context of the Gospel message when it is Preached. Faith Comes by Hearing and hearing the Word of God. Rom 10:17
what are they hearing?

The preaching of the Gospel 1cor 1:18

No one is telling the Holy Spirit to do anything that is a false narrative. Jesus is the one who said what the Holy Spirit would lead into all truth and convicted the world of Sin. And HE would come on the believer and Be in the Believer. Saying what the Holy Does as Scripture says HE will do it is not telling the Holy Spirit anything, it is repeating what Jesus said HE would do.

The word is preached as Jesus said it is to be done. It is heard received by faith and believed and the gift of the Holy Spirit is given.

I am not arguing that they listed to Peter, I'm saying that Acts 10 shows they Heard Peter and were saved and received the Empowering of the Holy Spirit. Acts 1:8