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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#82
So you are saying You believed the males need not be circumcised during that time?
So are you saying circumcision saved them?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#83
So are you saying circumcision saved them?
I am saying, in time past, it was necessary to be circumcised, to remain in the covenant that Israel had with God (genesis 17:10-14)

It was necessary, not sufficient
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#85
I am saying, in time past, it was necessary to be circumcised, to remain in the covenant that Israel had with God (genesis 17:10-14)

It was necessary, not sufficient
That has nothing to do with salvation.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#86
That has nothing to do with salvation.
Well, in the OT, if one is cut off from the nation, he is also cut off from God, he cannot be included in Abraham's bosom/Paradise, after his death.

Israel is only finally saved as a nation when Christ returns for them in the 2nd coming (Acts 3:19-21).

Peter repeated that point in his letter to Israel, that the entire nation must undergo one final fiery trial, during the Tribulation, before the nation can be saved. (1 Peter 1:7-9. 1 Peter 4:12-18).
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87
Well, in the OT, if one is cut off from the nation, he is also cut off from God, he cannot be included in Abraham's bosom/Paradise, after his death.

Israel is only finally saved as a nation when Christ returns for them in the 2nd coming (Acts 3:19-21).

Peter repeated that point in his letter to Israel, that the entire nation must undergo one final fiery trial, during the Tribulation, before the nation can be saved. (1 Peter 1:7-9. 1 Peter 4:12-18).
Lol

whatever man

you have god saving people different ways

thats not scripture period

the law never saved anyone, ever, so unless you want to call paul and the author of hebrews a liar. I suggest you change and seek
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#88
Lol

whatever man

you have god saving people different ways

thats not scripture period

the law never saved anyone, ever, so unless you want to call paul and the author of hebrews a liar. I suggest you change and seek
I never said it was the law that saved, it was always faith that saves, whether in time past, but now, and the age to come.

So if God commanded physical circumcision in Genesis 17:10-14 in time past, you show faith by obeying God. It was that faith that saved you.

But now, God command us not to work but put our trust in Jesus work on the cross (Romans 4:5). We likewise show faith in him during this but now time period, by obeying that, and God sees that as faith.

Likewise, when God command Israel not to take the mark of the beast during the Tribulation to be saved in the age to come, you show faith by obeying God there, and it will be that faith that saves you.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#89
I never said it was the law that saved, it was always faith that saves, whether in time past, but now, and the age to come.

So if God commanded physical circumcision in Genesis 17:10-14 in time past, you show faith by obeying God. It was that faith that saved you.

But now, God command us not to work but put our trust in Jesus work on the cross (Romans 4:5). We likewise show faith in him during this but now time period, by obeying that, and God sees that as faith.

Likewise, when God command Israel not to take the mark of the beast during the Tribulation to be saved in the age to come, you show faith by obeying God there, and it will be that faith that saves you.
You,don’t see it, it’s ok they did not see it either

once again good day
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#91
Faith is required for salvation but also baptism
If that's the case, then what happened to baptism in (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-9, 26; Ephesians 2:8.9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..). The Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that man is saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications."

Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved acts 8 the eunuch was baptized
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2015/03/acts-2216-baptism-essential-for.html

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Amen! Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
In Romans 6:4, the phrase "buried with Him through baptism," (on the surface) appears to support the idea that baptism is the instrumental cause of justification. However, even here baptism could be understood as the sign of justification. It's not unusual in scripture to call the reality by the name of its sign. Thus, for example, Paul says that all Christians are circumcised (even though one may not be physically circumcised) - meaning that they possess what circumcision signifies (Philippians 3:3). Using this kind of language, Paul can speak of the reality of the believers’ spiritual union with Christ, and the benefits which flow from that union, in terms of baptism, its sign.

We need to interpret these verses in context. Before mentioning baptism in chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that faith, not baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification (Romans 1:16, 3:22-30; 4:4-6, 13; 5:1). That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which water baptism symbolizes and pictures. Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our justification." (Romans 4:24,25) Since believers receive the benefits of Christ’s death and resurrection (justification), and that through faith, believers must be spiritually united to Him (delivered and raised up with Him). If baptism is taken as the instrumental cause, then Paul contradicts what he had established before, namely that justification is by faith, not baptism. *Hermeneutics. As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out - "A symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality."

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/romans/romans-6-3.html
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/romans/romans-6-4.html

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
And how are we saved? By grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Acts 4:4 - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.

Acts 5:14 - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
This is Spirit baptism and not water baptism. By one Spirit are we all baptized into one body.. Those who teach salvation by water baptism typically confuse water baptism with Spirit baptism.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (Period.) Not through faith and water baptism. *Also read John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. *Received Him, given the right to become children of God, through believing in His name, not through water baptism.

Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourself with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is "enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification." "Let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light...put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof" (Romans 13:12,14). This exhortation is written to Christians (those already saved). Evidently then, baptism is not the only way to "put on" Christ. To "put on" Christ is to conform to Him, imitate Him. So it is in baptism; we "put on" Christ, conforming to Him in the ordinance that declares Him to be our Savior.

Now in 1 Corinthians 10:2, we read that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean that the Israelites were water baptized into the body of Moses. So in what "sense" were the Israelites baptized into Moses? In the same sense that believers would be water baptized into Christ, in regards to "identification." Not to be confused with believers being baptized by one Spirit into one body....the body of Christ through Spirit baptism.

One does not put on a uniform in order to become a soldier. Simply putting on a soldier's uniform does not make one become a soldier. One is made a soldier first and then is able to put on and wear the uniform that distinguishes or marks them as a soldier.
Putting on a judge's robe does not, in itself, make anyone a "judge." But, one who has been made a judge is qualified to put on "judicial robes" and thus declare their qualifications. So too with being water baptized. The Christian puts on robes for which they have previously been qualified to wear. The putting on of Christ is not what makes one become a Christian, but one which becomes a token of it. If one puts on the clothes of a Christian, in water baptism, without first becoming a Christian (child of God through faith), then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#92
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
That is Roman Catholic dogma! The gospels mention that Jesus had brothers and sisters. "Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?” (Mt 13:55,56). And again: "There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him. And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee” (Mark 3:31,32).

Catholic writers stumble on each other trying to find excuses to explain away how Jesus could have brothers and sisters and yet Mary remained a virgin all her life. They appeal to apocryphal writings, such as the so-called Protoevangelium of James, saying that they were actually Joseph’s offspring from a previous marriage. Others say that they were his cousins or relatives. If this was the case, why would the biblical authors use the word ‘brothers’ instead of ‘relatives’ and ‘cousins’? (cf. Luke 1:36; Colossians 4:10).

Mary was a virgin at the conception and the birth of Jesus, her first-born son. However, the perpetual virginity of Mary is not taught in the Bible. This belief is an invention of human tradition.

http://www.justforcatholics.org/a105.htm
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
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#93
Since the OP clearly had an agenda to promote the errors of the RCC he is no longer with us and this thread is closed.
 
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