Born blind. Sin before born?

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User46952

Member
#21
Mar 12, 2019
55
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#21
jaybird88 said:
most hindus believe your born over and over in this world. Jews and early Christians believed your soul went to other worlds.
karma and judgment are one and the same IMO.

"The body that ye lay in the grave, or that is consumed by fire, is not the body that shall be, but they who come again shall receive other bodies, and as they have sown in one life, so shall they reap in another."
Essene teaching from Qumran
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Eph 1:4: "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love"
So, we were chosen before we born. On what basis? we dont know.
 
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Rasputin_OZ

Guest
#22
#22
The Disciples asked as they had not read this Gospel and know the man was born blind.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#23
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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#23
rodders2828 said:
The disciples didn't really ask silly questions, we just don't understand where they are coming from because we are not brought up Jewish. I suppose this instance would go all the way back to Deuteronomy 28 where, as part of the covenant (with Israel, not gentiles) God promised that if they followed him they would be blessed with easy lives (good crops and livestock, peace with enemies, healthy family, etc.) but if they fell away, the opposite. You pretty much need to read the whole chapter, but vv 1-14 outlines the blessings, vv 15-26 outlines the curses.

I don't have the references but I also think there are verses which talk about curses to certain sinners that fall to them and/or following generations. (Solomon comes to mind, he was not a good king, but 'for the sake of his father, David' his kingdom was taken away only after Solomon died).

So I think there question is reasonable. And as Jesus replies, this one was not due to anyone's sin but for the glorification of God.


Deu 28:1 And it will be, if you shall listen carefully to the voice of Jehovah your God, to observe and to do all His commandments which I command you today, Jehovah your God will set you on high above all nations of the earth.
Deu 28:2 And all these blessings shall come on you and overtake you, if you will listen to the voice of Jehovah your God.
Deu 28:3 You shall be blessed in the city, and be blessed in the field.
Deu 28:4 The fruit of your body shall be blessed, and the fruit of your ground, and the fruit of your cattle, the increase of your cows, and the flocks of your sheep.
Deu 28:5 Your basket and your store shall be blessed.
Deu 28:6 You shall be blessed when you come in, and blessed when you go out.
..and so on.

Deu 28:15 And it shall be, if you will not listen to the voice of Jehovah your God, to observe and to do all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, all these curses shall come on you and overtake you.
Deu 28:16 You shall be cursed in the city, and cursed in the field.
Deu 28:17 Your basket and your store shall be cursed.
Deu 28:18 The fruit of your body shall be cursed, and the fruit of your land, the increase of your cows, and the flocks of your sheep.
Deu 28:19 You shall be cursed when you come in, and cursed when you go out.
..and so on - it gets pretty rough.

including..
Deu 28:28 Jehovah shall strike you with madness and blindness, and astonishment of heart.
Deu 28:59 then Jehovah will make your plagues remarkable, and the plagues of your seed great and persistent plagues; with evil and long-lasting sicknesses.
Deu 28:61 Also, every sickness and every plague which is not written in the book of this Law, Jehovah will bring them on you until you are destroyed.
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That would be the 'his parents?' part.
 
M

mar09

Senior Member
#24
Sep 17, 2014
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#24
dcontroversal said:
The sin of no one.........Solomon said time and chance happen unto all.......and your principle could be taken down to the proverbial "tenth" degree.....

Why do innocent children die in the womb
Why do innocent children get cancer and die at age 1, 2 or even 10
Why are people born poor in South America while a Vanderbilt child is born rich and with a silver spoon in their mouth
Why does the believer that is faithful die in Syria as a child by ISIS while a wicked man like Charles Manson live to be 80 on America's dime

Them being born blind and dying blind had zero to do with sin or a punishment of sin by the father or mother....God done away with that so they could not throw it in his face.....Helen Keller was born both blind and deaf....she was successful and a believer.......it has nothing to do with sin.......TIME and CHANCE and if anything a corruption of the gene pool

"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.
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Hi dc,
Guess what? I was just reading Ezekiel 18 this morning, maybe after you posted... People can read thru it, but here are some verses in my notes:

19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
 
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mar09

Senior Member
#25
Sep 17, 2014
4,927
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#25
Incorrect teachings and traditions of men have made many Christians sick because of doubt caused by these. For instance, teaching that God is the author of sickness is not in the Bible at all. Some believe God leaves some sick for his glory. But time and again, in the Gospels we find people glorified God after they got healed. The sick got healed… “and the people glorified God.” The healing, not the sickness, brings glory to God.
 
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Rasputin_OZ

Guest
#26
#26
teachings not causing people to get sick, maybe stopping them getting healed.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#27
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
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#27
mar09 said:
Hi dc,
Guess what? I was just reading Ezekiel 18 this morning, maybe after you posted... People can read thru it, but here are some verses in my notes:

19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
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God gives you wisdom if you just ask Him. Hallelujah.

Its like when mary and Martha asked Jesus why he was late and Lazarus had already died. Well it seems Jesus purposely delayed so they could see a greater miracle.

You can ask questions sure but Gods going to confound your earthly wisdom every time. Our questions are actually quite silly from Gods point of view. He knows the answers. But He likes that people ask them all the same cos it shows we are thinking and curious about His ways. Otherwise God would not have answerd Job.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#28
#28
Rasputin_OZ said:
The Disciples asked as they had not read this Gospel and know the man was born blind.
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why would they need to read anything when they were personally trained by the living Jesus.
 
JohnRH

JohnRH

Junior Member
#30
Mar 5, 2018
676
324
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#30
User46952 said:
John 9:2: "And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?"

The person was born blind.
How a person can sin before he was born (according to the disciples)?
Why did the disciples ask ".. who did sin, this man, ..?" for being born blind.
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I've wondered that too.
A couple of theories:
1. Maybe false ideas of reincarnation had reached the disciples' ears and they hadn't thought them all through?
2. Maybe there were false teachings floating around regarding the struggle that had happened in Rebekah's womb; that Esau had had some moral responsibility for his part (which would go against Rom. 9:11 of course).
 
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jaybird88

Guest
#31
#31
Rasputin_OZ said:
ummm the joke went right over your head lol
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didnt realize you were making a joke. thought you were one of those people that believed the disciples were all imbeciles because they didnt have access to the same scriptures that we do today, and there are a lot that think this.
 
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