Broad Path, Narrow Path

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,810
4,579
113
#61
just an observation- most of us who trust Christ for salvation have no problem answering questions , because our salvation is not of ourselves, it is a gift of God, given to all who BELIEVE in the name of the Son.

so, if we are mistaken about something, a wrong belief , a piece of scripture we may not have read in a while, we can adjust our thoughts , beliefs , and behavior to match Scripture.


but, people like syudyman, lightberaer, have a religious system that they trust for salvation. they are very selective about what Scripture they apply. they certainly do not like answering questions, because if they were honest ( not a big deal to them ), they might discover a few holes in their system.


but, since they trust their man-made, cobbled together verses, with context and word definitions being tossed aside, they just ignore the questions, and attack those who dare to question their system.



us- give Christ glory at all costs.

them- defend their system at all costs.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,545
2,980
113
#62
It is simple really - the broad path is for those who claim that we cannot stop sinning in this life. The narrow path is for those who trust in what Christ did and sin no more.
So are you living a sinless life Hepzibah ? Yes or No ?
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,545
2,980
113
#64
So by your own admission you are not living a sinless life..

Therefore if your statement is true::

The narrow path is for those who trust in what Christ did and sin no more.
Then you are not on the Narrow path because you continue to sin and thus by your own preaching you have condemned yourself..

This is the stark tragedy of those who preach works salvation... By their own words they condemn themselves..
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#65
just an observation- most of us who trust Christ for salvation have no problem answering questions , because our salvation is not of ourselves, it is a gift of God, given to all who BELIEVE in the name of the Son.

so, if we are mistaken about something, a wrong belief , a piece of scripture we may not have read in a while, we can adjust our thoughts , beliefs , and behavior to match Scripture.


but, people like syudyman, lightberaer, have a religious system that they trust for salvation. they are very selective about what Scripture they apply. they certainly do not like answering questions, because if they were honest ( not a big deal to them ), they might discover a few holes in their system.


but, since they trust their man-made, cobbled together verses, with context and word definitions being tossed aside, they just ignore the questions, and attack those who dare to question their system.



us- give Christ glory at all costs.

them- defend their system at all costs.

I think it is Great, you will now answer questions. I am so glad to hear this. Here are a few I have about your religious system.

In your religion, Did Jesus overcome sin and the devil by using powers no other human has access to?

The Sabbath Jesus said was made for man, was this Sunday, or God's 7th Day Sabbath?

Before the Christ came to earth as a man, what were the "Works/Deeds of the LAW" given to Moses for justification of sins and according to the Bible, who performed them?

I'm inclined to be a little skeptical of your new found interest in answering questions given the tone of many of your posts over the last year. But I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, I believe we all can change.

FYI, I'm not offended by long posts, especially if it includes scriptures. Maybe you can set me straight on some of your religious traditions which, in my view, the Bible does not support.

I look forward to your answers.
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
#66
So by your own admission you are not living a sinless life..

Therefore if your statement is true::



Then you are not on the Narrow path because you continue to sin and thus by your own preaching you have condemned yourself..

This is the stark tragedy of those who preach works salvation... By their own words they condemn themselves..
I do not continue to sin intentionally. Like Job I cry out 'please show me where I sin' but the Lord has chosen to make me abide in patience. The only way I know that I am in a sinless state is the blessed assurance which I do not have atm. If it was sinlessness through works I would not have this problem. Sinlessness is by grace.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#67
I do not continue to sin intentionally. Like Job I cry out 'please show me where I sin' but the Lord has chosen to make me abide in patience. The only way I know that I am in a sinless state is the blessed assurance which I do not have atm. If it was sinlessness through works I would not have this problem. Sinlessness is by grace.
Very interesting take.

I agree, I will never be completely "Sinless" in my own eyes, at least in my mind at present. But what difference does that make? Shall I be convinced to reject His Word's because of this?

2 Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one (Jew, Gentile) that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

This was the goal for Paul.

Phil. 3:
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.


This is the Commandments of the Christ.

Matt. 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

If I want to be "worthy" of His Grace, then I must be willing to "do" as He says. YES?

May I ask you a question? Doesn't it almost seem like it is the Struggle that is Holy? We fall, we get back up and "press towards the goal". We fall again, get up again and press towards the goal? It is written that He "learned obedience by the things He suffered". Is this the Holy struggle?

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Anyway, food for thought. Excellent post. Thank you.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,810
4,579
113
#68
I think it is Great, you will now answer questions. I am so glad to hear this. Here are a few I have about your religious system.

In your religion, Did Jesus overcome sin and the devil by using powers no other human has access to?

The Sabbath Jesus said was made for man, was this Sunday, or God's 7th Day Sabbath?

Before the Christ came to earth as a man, what were the "Works/Deeds of the LAW" given to Moses for justification of sins and according to the Bible, who performed them?

I'm inclined to be a little skeptical of your new found interest in answering questions given the tone of many of your posts over the last year. But I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, I believe we all can change.

FYI, I'm not offended by long posts, especially if it includes scriptures. Maybe you can set me straight on some of your religious traditions which, in my view, the Bible does not support.

I look forward to your answers.
one answer to one question, then over to you.

ist question - did Jesus overcome....

Isaiah said " the virgin shall give birth...……… and call Him Immanuel ( Immanuel means " God with us ""

the angel said to Joseph ' …. he ( Jesus ) shall save His people from their sins "

the Angels said to the shepherds " …….who is Christ, the Lord ".

this is just a small sample of Scripture that prove Jesus was fully man and fully God.

so, a mere man could not live a perfect , sinless life and be worthy of a perfect to be a sacrifice without blemish, which the Law required .

so, no, a mere man could not. God in the flesh could.

so, your question- are these accurate Scripture, or is their some reason why they are not to be included in my beliefs?
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
#69
Very interesting take.

I agree, I will never be completely "Sinless" in my own eyes, at least in my mind at present. But what difference does that make? Shall I be convinced to reject His Word's because of this?

* If the scripture says we should be perfect as our heavenly father is perfect then it is possible. I have been sinless and received assurance that it is so. Just like the assurance God gave to satan that Job was sinless.

2 Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one (Jew, Gentile) that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

This was the goal for Paul.

* which he did achieve and encourages us to do the same - to depart from iniquity - not to aim to depart from it but not actually do it.

Phil. 3:
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

* Paul is not saying here that he did not achieve perfection - he is speaking of the perfection of his crowning with glory as a martyr which he had not achieved at at point. He goes on regaring moral perfection in Phil 3 :15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

This is the Commandments of the Christ.

Matt. 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

If I want to be "worthy" of His Grace, then I must be willing to "do" as He says. YES?

May I ask you a question? Doesn't it almost seem like it is the Struggle that is Holy? We fall, we get back up and "press towards the goal". We fall again, get up again and press towards the goal? It is written that He "learned obedience by the things He suffered". Is this the Holy struggle?

*No this is the preceeding part where we circle round the foot of the mountain but fail to climb.

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Anyway, food for thought. Excellent post. Thank you.

*You are welcome.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#70
one answer to one question, then over to you.

ist question - did Jesus overcome....

Isaiah said " the virgin shall give birth...……… and call Him Immanuel ( Immanuel means " God with us ""

the angel said to Joseph ' …. he ( Jesus ) shall save His people from their sins "

the Angels said to the shepherds " …….who is Christ, the Lord ".

this is just a small sample of Scripture that prove Jesus was fully man and fully God.

so, a mere man could not live a perfect , sinless life and be worthy of a perfect to be a sacrifice without blemish, which the Law required .

so, no, a mere man could not. God in the flesh could.

so, your question- are these accurate Scripture, or is their some reason why they are not to be included in my beliefs?

You didn't post any scriptures G9. Just some references to those who understood the Prophesy about God becoming a man and dwelling among us. Why didn't you include these?


John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

This says God was "made Flesh", not made "fully God".


Heb. 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

This says God was "made lower that angels", not "fully God".


Heb. 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, (Not like unto God) that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

How can "fully God" suffer being tempted. But God being "made" flesh and blood in "all things" as we are, that man could suffer temptation. Why would satan tempt "fully God"? Was all that just a show, a dishonest ruse to "look" like a man, but actually was God? In your religion, did God and satan have a pact to make it look like He was being tempted? Was it all just show?

Heb. 5:
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

How is "fully God" made perfect? How does "Fully God" learn obedience? How can you create religious doctrines and not include these scriptures?

Is. 53: 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

You preach Jesus overcome sin, not because He was a Faithful, obedient Son, but because He was "Fully God".

Yet the Scriptures tell us HE was God that was "Made fully man". And this man was sinless despite being "in all things" made like unto us.

Where is there even one place in the Bible that the Christ says a man can not obey God?

If Jesus was "fully God" then wouldn't that mean all the temptations, all the suffering, the death, was all a fraud? "Fully God" can not suffer, can not be tempted, can not sin, can not be "made perfect" and can not die. If He kicked in God powers no human has ever had, to overcome satan's temptation, why did angels come to administer to Him? Was He "fully God" or a little lower than the angels? Why didn't He kick in the same powers to keep Him from shedding tears of blood? Or in your religion, was that just a show as well?

He can't be "fully man" in all things as we are, if He had access to powers we don't have in overcoming sin. Also, your belief regarding obedience makes the Word of God void, from His Word's to Cain, to Abraham, and to the entire world from the very beginning. So if I follow your religion, I must reject all of God's instructions to obey Him because you preach no man can't do it.

And also, if I follow your religion, I can't accept the many Word's of God which tell us God came to earth as a man in all ways as you and I.

So we have a disagreement of religious system. You don't believe Jesus wasn't Really a man, coming in the Flesh in all things as His Brethren. And I completely believe He came in the Flesh.

So your words "so, if we are mistaken about something, a wrong belief , a piece of scripture we may not have read in a while, we can adjust our thoughts , beliefs , and behavior to match Scripture".

So given all the evidence that The Christ, the Word of God, "became a Flesh and Blood man" and dwelt among us, and used the same power's of God that He promised to ALL men who are faithful to Him to over come sin and satan.

Shall we use the Word's of God as our guide, or religious traditions of men?

Thank you for your answer.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,810
4,579
113
#71
You didn't post any scriptures G9. Just some references to those who understood the Prophesy about God becoming a man and dwelling among us. Why didn't you include these?


John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

This says God was "made Flesh", not made "fully God".


Heb. 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

This says God was "made lower that angels", not "fully God".


Heb. 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, (Not like unto God) that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

How can "fully God" suffer being tempted. But God being "made" flesh and blood in "all things" as we are, that man could suffer temptation. Why would satan tempt "fully God"? Was all that just a show, a dishonest ruse to "look" like a man, but actually was God? In your religion, did God and satan have a pact to make it look like He was being tempted? Was it all just show?

Heb. 5:
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

How is "fully God" made perfect? How does "Fully God" learn obedience? How can you create religious doctrines and not include these scriptures?

Is. 53: 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

You preach Jesus overcome sin, not because He was a Faithful, obedient Son, but because He was "Fully God".

Yet the Scriptures tell us HE was God that was "Made fully man". And this man was sinless despite being "in all things" made like unto us.

Where is there even one place in the Bible that the Christ says a man can not obey God?

If Jesus was "fully God" then wouldn't that mean all the temptations, all the suffering, the death, was all a fraud? "Fully God" can not suffer, can not be tempted, can not sin, can not be "made perfect" and can not die. If He kicked in God powers no human has ever had, to overcome satan's temptation, why did angels come to administer to Him? Was He "fully God" or a little lower than the angels? Why didn't He kick in the same powers to keep Him from shedding tears of blood? Or in your religion, was that just a show as well?

He can't be "fully man" in all things as we are, if He had access to powers we don't have in overcoming sin. Also, your belief regarding obedience makes the Word of God void, from His Word's to Cain, to Abraham, and to the entire world from the very beginning. So if I follow your religion, I must reject all of God's instructions to obey Him because you preach no man can't do it.

And also, if I follow your religion, I can't accept the many Word's of God which tell us God came to earth as a man in all ways as you and I.

So we have a disagreement of religious system. You don't believe Jesus wasn't Really a man, coming in the Flesh in all things as His Brethren. And I completely believe He came in the Flesh.

So your words "so, if we are mistaken about something, a wrong belief , a piece of scripture we may not have read in a while, we can adjust our thoughts , beliefs , and behavior to match Scripture".

So given all the evidence that The Christ, the Word of God, "became a Flesh and Blood man" and dwelt among us, and used the same power's of God that He promised to ALL men who are faithful to Him to over come sin and satan.

Shall we use the Word's of God as our guide, or religious traditions of men?

Thank you for your answer.
sooo, Isaiah, Matthew, and Luke are not Scripture??

alrighty then. no point in trying to have conversation with someone who does not think certain parts of the Bible are Scripture.

oh, and by the way, you just said the Angeles were lying about Jesus. because that is who I quoted out of Matthew and Luke.

so, on that note, i'll say ta-ta.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#72
sooo, Isaiah, Matthew, and Luke are not Scripture??

alrighty then. no point in trying to have conversation with someone who does not think certain parts of the Bible are Scripture.

oh, and by the way, you just said the Angeles were lying about Jesus. because that is who I quoted out of Matthew and Luke.

so, on that note, i'll say ta-ta.

Sure, you must deflect away from the Word of God. But I am interested in knowing my Lord, so the scriptures are important to me for they are life as the author of my Salvation has declared. I know are not interested, but for others reading, let God's Word guide you into all truth. Not my words, or "other voices" as did Eve, but let God's Word guide us.

Ex. 12:
5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

The Lamb was perfect, taken out from the other Lambs. They didn't find a lone, supernatural Lamb that was treated any differently than the others. Jesus, the Man, was born into the Sheep as a "sheep for the slaughter".

Duet 18:
17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

John 7:
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

A man like unto Moses, He was a man, so He didn't speak out of the imaginations of His human mind, but from God, the Father of the Man.

Is. 7:
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (God with us)
15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

Heb. 5:
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

God is already perfect, He doesn't have to be made perfect. But God, who became Flesh and Blood human, in all things as we are, would have to "learn" obedience as do we all. Let the scriptures create doctrine.

Is. 11:
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Jesus knew He was a Man, He also knew He was the Word of God who directed Abraham. This is why He made the distinction between the two here. "Don't call Me, the man, Good, there is only one who is Good, and that is Me as God. It is His Word's that I speak, not My own.

How is it "Fully God" needs the Spirit of the Lord to rest upon Him? How come doesn't "Fully God" judge after His own sight, or reprove after the hearing of His own EARS. Because He is a Man, just like you and I. He had a job just like you and I. He was tempted to sin just like you and I. But HE Loved His Father and gave His Life for His fathers use.

Is. 53:
1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

I could go one and one but surely the scriptures have shown who Jesus was by now.

And here you are G9 and your Pals, all this time later, taking His Honor and Glory away from Him. He became a Man and suffered to live the perfect sinless life so He could qualify to be the perfect Lamb out of the whole flock. He laid down His life, not to do His Will as a man, but to do the Will of His Father, and He did this because He Loved me.

He is the perfect human who showed the perfect Love for His Father, and His perfect Love for His brethren by offering His human Life a living sacrifice to God for us. He is truly the Author of my Faith.

And you and your Pals want to belittle His GREAT Honor by trying to convince others He really didn't come in the Flesh. He really didn't have victory over sin as a man, because He was "fully God".

Rev. 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

This is why I don't go to your church G9. You preach against the Word of God even when you are shown.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,810
4,579
113
#73
so, the verses I posted are not Scripture?

who gave the you the authority to decide what parts of the Bible are valid and what parts are not?

because that is what you are saying. that parts of the Bible are not valid.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
55
HBG. Pa. USA
#74
So are you living a sinless life Hepzibah ? Yes or No ?
Hepzibah; a name in which we all shall take upon ourselves; Hi. Let's take a walk....

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief (disobedience through lack of commitment) make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar (false witness by saying one thing and living another); as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. But if our unrighteousness (Disobedience; unbelief. Being a false witness by saying one thing and living another) ( commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie (Unrighteousness, Disobedience; unbelief. Being a false witness by saying one thing and living another) unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
(Rom 3:1-9)

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
(Rom 3:10)

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law (the Jews which were given the oracles of GOD): that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is through (the) faith of Jesus Christ INTO all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(Rom 3:19-22)

Wherefore? Because they (Israel; the Jews which were given the oracles of GOD) sought it not by faith (changed heart), but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
(Rom 9:32 KJV)

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(Rom 9:33)

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. The righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law ) down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ)is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; For Christ (the Word in your heart and mouth; the Faith in which we preach)) is the end of the law (written on parchment and Tables of Stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 10:3,4,6-8; Deut 30:10-14)

Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30:11-14. Paul through Christ paraphrased Deuteronomy knowing they would look it up and they would see the parallels Paul was putting forth. Deut 30:11-14 was a promise GOD was making then to HIS people. But alas they (as a whole) refused to have the changed heart; Faith in which HE was readily to give through HIS eternal and internal presence. So HE spoke it again as a future prophecy in Jeremiah 31:33. Which the writer of Hebrews repeats in 8:10

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel (those who would go the distance with GOD; never letting go) after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws (the Word; Christ) into their mind, and write them in their hearts (and in their mouths): and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(Heb 8:10 )

Forasmuch as We are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
(2Co 3:2-5)


For we are the Body of Christ the Temple of GOD. It is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure; Not I but Christ the Rock in we stand.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
55
HBG. Pa. USA
#75
I do not continue to sin intentionally. Like Job I cry out 'please show me where I sin' but the Lord has chosen to make me abide in patience. The only way I know that I am in a sinless state is the blessed assurance which I do not have atm. If it was sinlessness through works I would not have this problem. Sinlessness is by grace.
Did a study a while ago on grace; God‘s grace. First let’s take a look at the Secular use of the word.
It's use as a noun would be defined as: Simple elegance or refinement of movement.

Verbally it is understood along the same lines but in action. If one would look it up they would find something along these lines: To do honor or credit to (someone or something) by one's presence.

Now Webster saw fit to define it as follows:
1
a
: unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification
b : a virtue coming from God
c : a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine assistance

Did a word study of the Greek and Hebrew a while ago. This is what was found.

Grace in the Hebrew is חן and it is pronounced khane. Subjectively it means to find favor in the eyes of someone. To be acceptable to them; to find or receive grace, kindness, favor, goodwill.
Objectively it means form or appearance; beauty, gracefulness.

Khane is from חנן and is pronounced khaw-nan’ Properly it means to bend or stoop in kindness to an inferior. To be inclined towards , yearn towards, long for, be merciful, compassionate, favorable. Causatively it means to implore; move to favor by petition. It is recommended to Compare the kindred word חנה pronounced hana. Properly this word means, to incline towards, reach; by implication to decline. Specifically to pitch a tent. Generally to encamp. To set oneself down. To inhabit.

  Now lets look at the Greek word for God's grace χάρις , pronounce charis. In the objective sense it means, outward grace or favor, beauty. Properly of persons or their portraits. In the subjective sense it is , grace or favor felt, whether on the part of the doer or the receiver. Graciousness (as gratifying ), of manner or act. Strong felt moved to pen in his lexicon that charis is, "the especially the Divine influence on the heart, and it’s reflection in the life; including gratitude."

Charis is from χαίρω and it is pronounced chairo. It means rejoice be glad, be cheerful; calmly happy or well off.


So what is God's grace?

It is His kindness, His favor, His Goodwill, His inclining toward us.
His yearning, His longing compassionate imploring for us to encamp. To abode, to set ourselves down with Him and He with us. It is His Beauty, His appearance, His image and likeness, His joy in us for Sanctification, which is only found in Him through the Gospel. The Kingdom of God; Christ in you, the Hope of Glory.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
55
HBG. Pa. USA
#76
Hepzibah; a name in which we all shall take upon ourselves; Hi. Let's take a walk....

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief (disobedience through lack of commitment) make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar (false witness by saying one thing and living another); as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. But if our unrighteousness (Disobedience; unbelief. Being a false witness by saying one thing and living another) ( commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie (Unrighteousness, Disobedience; unbelief. Being a false witness by saying one thing and living another) unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
(Rom 3:1-9)

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
(Rom 3:10)

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law (the Jews which were given the oracles of GOD): that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is through (the) faith of Jesus Christ INTO all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(Rom 3:19-22)

Wherefore? Because they (Israel; the Jews which were given the oracles of GOD) sought it not by faith (changed heart), but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
(Rom 9:32 KJV)

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(Rom 9:33)

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. The righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law ) down from above:) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ)is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; For Christ (the Word in your heart and mouth; the Faith in which we preach)) is the end of the law (written on parchment and Tables of Stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 10:3,4,6-8; Deut 30:10-14)

Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30:11-14. Paul through Christ paraphrased Deuteronomy knowing they would look it up and they would see the parallels Paul was putting forth. Deut 30:11-14 was a promise GOD was making then to HIS people. But alas they (as a whole) refused to have the changed heart; Faith in which HE was readily to give through HIS eternal and internal presence. So HE spoke it again as a future prophecy in Jeremiah 31:33. Which the writer of Hebrews repeats in 8:10

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel (those who would go the distance with GOD; never letting go) after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws (the Word; Christ) into their mind, and write them in their hearts (and in their mouths): and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(Heb 8:10 )

Forasmuch as We are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
(2Co 3:2-5)


For we are the Body of Christ the Temple of GOD. It is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure; Not I but Christ the Rock in we stand.
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
(Eph 2:21-22 KJV)
Praise GOD; Praise GOD indeed!!!
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,545
2,980
113
#77
I do not continue to sin intentionally. Like Job I cry out 'please show me where I sin' but the Lord has chosen to make me abide in patience. The only way I know that I am in a sinless state is the blessed assurance which I do not have atm. If it was sinlessness through works I would not have this problem. Sinlessness is by grace.
So you Now adding the word intentionally to your doctrine...

So your old doctrine which you preached to one and all in this forum was a lie....

The narrow path is for those who trust in what Christ did and sin no more.
Now it's The narrow path is for those who trust in what Christ did and cease to intentionally sin.

Is this your new doctrine ?
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
#78
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
(Rom 3:10)
Correct and I am not preaching the rightousness of men. Many people who call themselves Christians, are working at their own righteousness by studying the word and becoming well versed in it, and considering themselves superior, but the true faith is through having the Holy Spirit within guiding and teaching and revealing the natural inclinations and attitudes that will lead to sin if not heeded:

Jude 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy

If we are in grace, His unmerited favour, then He will keep us from sin.

What He detests though, as Paul lays out in Romans as you have quoted (For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. ) are men who say they are Christians (or Jews in prior times) and are not walking rightly ie in His righteousness which is perfect, and in which the old saints walked at times, by faith and not be obeying the law and sacrifice.

The whole emphasis in the Old is the cleansing and men think that they are 'covered by the blood' and their sin is unseen by God. Romans remvoves that error if we have ears to hear.

lightbearer (a misnom I am afraid) we cannot walk together as we are miles part.
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
#79
So you Now adding the word intentionally to your doctrine...

So your old doctrine which you preached to one and all in this forum was a lie....



Now it's The narrow path is for those who trust in what Christ did and cease to intentionally sin.

Is this your new doctrine ?
I am on the broad path. It leads to destruction I know.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,043
113
#80
hi Studyman,

Galatians 3: 19 It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made

I was wondering when in your view the seed came. Jesus birth? baptism? Resurrection? something else?

this is just a question, I don't intend to start a lengthy debate.