the whole topic is warped and twisted right from the start and hence has not been understood nor can or will be understood until the warp or twist is removed - so here we go - there is no matter no matter who thinks or says otherwise - in fact the greatest achievement of science was the dematerialisation of matter but now our humpty dumpty pseudo scientists are desperately trying to put it together again as atheists and materialists - here for those who have ears to hear and eyes to see but neither hear nor see is the substantiation for the Catholic doctrine of substantiation - so we see Jesus knew what He was talking about even if most do not know and will not accept - wincam