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I agree Paul and James aren't speaking of the same kind of works, at least not everywhere. Though when Paul speaks of works in Ephesians the works he speaks of are close to the works James speaks of.
No, my idea of faith is not a general acting or likeness of what other Christians are doing. Faith requires hearing. Not simply preaching, but also hearing from God. Faith is placing your trust into what God says, how He directs your life.
The issue is you're making it the merit of personal faith that is of saving value. It misses the mark because salvation is external to us. It's not the force of our belief, but the action of God.
No, my idea of faith is not a general acting or likeness of what other Christians are doing. Faith requires hearing. Not simply preaching, but also hearing from God. Faith is placing your trust into what God says, how He directs your life.
The issue is you're making it the merit of personal faith that is of saving value. It misses the mark because salvation is external to us. It's not the force of our belief, but the action of God.
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Salvation is interpreted by Greek to mean "a deliverance". There is a deliverance when a born again child of God comes unto a knowledge of the righteousness of God, Rom 10:1-3.
Paul's prayer is for the born again children of God, for the fact that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge, that they might become knowledgeable of the righteousness of God, and would stop going about to establish their own righteousness by their good deeds of the old law.
Paul's prayer is for the born again children of God, for the fact that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge, that they might become knowledgeable of the righteousness of God, and would stop going about to establish their own righteousness by their good deeds of the old law.
A moslem say, Christian encourage criminal. As long as you believe Jesus is God than what ever you do you go to heaven. Salvation by faith not by work. Let rob the bank. I said how about if police get you, you will spend years of your live in prison. He say: Jesus forgive my sin, police don't have the right to put me in the prison.
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I think in this case, the moslim misunderstod the Bible.
Paul say salvation by faith in the context to disagree with Jews that believe salvation by animal sacrifice.
Martin Luther say salvation by faith alone but faith that saved never alone
In the context to not agree with catholic that sale forgiveness.
Faith that save never alone because it will bear fruit.
Paul say salvation by faith in the context to disagree with Jews that believe salvation by animal sacrifice.
Martin Luther say salvation by faith alone but faith that saved never alone
In the context to not agree with catholic that sale forgiveness.
Faith that save never alone because it will bear fruit.
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That is one of the most abused verses considering Paul was talking about facing all circumstances taking that verse to mean being capable of accomplishing tasks is not really correct.
The statement is that whether in a season of excess or a season of want, Christ provides the ability to carry on in faith.
The statement is that whether in a season of excess or a season of want, Christ provides the ability to carry on in faith.
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Paul says differently.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
That says, salvation happens or occurs WHEN they confess with their mouth.
No, believing causes one to confess good or bad, to proclaim or denounce.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall [THEN] be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
It is written, "Faith comes by hearing the word of God", and you can't have faith until you believe, and you can't believe until you agree, and you can't agree until you HEAR.
All that says is, God REVEALED who Jesus was, to Peter.
I don't know how you got, he was saved before he spoke.
THE MAN BELIEVED FIRST, THEN HE SPOKE.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
That says, salvation happens or occurs WHEN they confess with their mouth.
No, believing causes one to confess good or bad, to proclaim or denounce.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall [THEN] be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
It is written, "Faith comes by hearing the word of God", and you can't have faith until you believe, and you can't believe until you agree, and you can't agree until you HEAR.
All that says is, God REVEALED who Jesus was, to Peter.
I don't know how you got, he was saved before he spoke.
THE MAN BELIEVED FIRST, THEN HE SPOKE.
Paul isn't saying that the confessing act saves in Romans 10:10, especially considering that he had spent 10 chapters up to that point outlining the external nature of salvation. Confessing happens when someone is saved, but it isn't the confessing act that does the saving.
Do you think any of us can know who Jesus is if it is not revealed to us by the Father? Faith certainly comes by hearing and when the Holy Spirit convicts us that Jesus is God we know that we have salvation.
You're close on a lot of things, but the biggest divide is that you seem to believe that these things stem from you so you miss the mark severely.
Do you think any of us can know who Jesus is if it is not revealed to us by the Father? Faith certainly comes by hearing and when the Holy Spirit convicts us that Jesus is God we know that we have salvation.
You're close on a lot of things, but the biggest divide is that you seem to believe that these things stem from you so you miss the mark severely.
Call it what you like, but it very much does agrees with scripture.
Again, you are either not seeing what I have been saying or ignoring it, and I think it's the former, like so many others on CC.
Can we agree, there is only ONE kind of God like faith?
Jesus said in Mark 11:22, "...have the faith of God".
And God's faith works only one way.
Look at verse 23.
"...whosoever shall say unto... and shall not doubt in his heart, but believe that those things which he said shall come to pass, he shall have whatsoever he says."
Paul put it this way.
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Over and over again, the bible says, those who speak what they believe in their heart, have acted on the faith.
Whether it be for salvation or healing, it works the same way every time.
Believe and confess, believe and confess.
Again, you are either not seeing what I have been saying or ignoring it, and I think it's the former, like so many others on CC.
Can we agree, there is only ONE kind of God like faith?
Jesus said in Mark 11:22, "...have the faith of God".
And God's faith works only one way.
Look at verse 23.
"...whosoever shall say unto... and shall not doubt in his heart, but believe that those things which he said shall come to pass, he shall have whatsoever he says."
Paul put it this way.
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Over and over again, the bible says, those who speak what they believe in their heart, have acted on the faith.
Whether it be for salvation or healing, it works the same way every time.
Believe and confess, believe and confess.
Not even close.
They are entirely different.
I agree, one cannot get saved through general good works/acts/deeds.
Not stay saved based on the same.
Yet it is clear, we must act on our faith, BEFORE God will act on His promise.
Do you believe the gospel of Jesus Christ?
You say within yourself, 'yes, I believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.'
Are you then saved because you believe the gospel?
NO, NO, and NO, YOU ARE NOT.
You did nothing with that belief, it is therefore still dead and useless.
Nothing was accomplished.
You have yet to eat and drink Jesus' flesh and blood, respectively.
No blood, no life.
By failing to act on said belief, absolutely NOTHING happened.
You are still a lost soul.
Not speaking about you personally.
Now answer me this, if you can.
Is the act of speaking what one believes in their heart, a work of the law, such as what Paul wrote in Eph 2:9?
"Not of works, lest any man boast".
That is not what faith is, that is called, believing.
Faith is not an action word, as in, a verb, but it is a thing, as in, a noun.
As I stated earlier, both the author of Hebrews and Jesus stated what faith is, while Paul and James tell you HOW to use said faith.
Scripture says otherwise.
The kingdom of heaven is WITHIN YOU.
And again,
Pro 4:20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.
Pro 4:21 Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.
Pro 4:22 For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.
Pro 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
Whether you know it or not, it is the WORD OF GOD ITSELF, that saves us.
The word we receive, act on, and keep in our heart, is what saves us.
We are saved BY THE WORD OF GOD, and said word must be in our hearts, and released or sent forth, out our mouths, verbally, and the WORD OF GOD ITSELF, SAVES US.
We are saved and made the righteousness of God BECAUSE OF the seed/offspring of God, which is His word.
Without said seed/offspring in our heart, we are not or no more saved.
IT IS THE WORD OF GOD ITSELF THAT GIVES US LIFE, FOR IT IS BOTH THE FLESH AND BLOOD OF JESUS.
The blood is made of both blood and water.
The blood of Christ is a spirit/offspring/seed of THE SPIRIT OF GOD, and the water of the blood is the word of God.
The word of God is also the flesh of Jesus.
It is both the flesh and blood of Jesus, and without said word in us, we have no life in us.
We are told that we must both eat and drink Jesus' flesh and blood, respectively, or we have no life in us.
And how do we eat and drink Jesus' flesh and blood?
We do so by coming to him and receiving God's promised savior through the word we hear.
1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
They are entirely different.
I agree, one cannot get saved through general good works/acts/deeds.
Not stay saved based on the same.
Yet it is clear, we must act on our faith, BEFORE God will act on His promise.
Do you believe the gospel of Jesus Christ?
You say within yourself, 'yes, I believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.'
Are you then saved because you believe the gospel?
NO, NO, and NO, YOU ARE NOT.
You did nothing with that belief, it is therefore still dead and useless.
Nothing was accomplished.
You have yet to eat and drink Jesus' flesh and blood, respectively.
No blood, no life.
By failing to act on said belief, absolutely NOTHING happened.
You are still a lost soul.
Not speaking about you personally.
Now answer me this, if you can.
Is the act of speaking what one believes in their heart, a work of the law, such as what Paul wrote in Eph 2:9?
"Not of works, lest any man boast".
That is not what faith is, that is called, believing.
Faith is not an action word, as in, a verb, but it is a thing, as in, a noun.
As I stated earlier, both the author of Hebrews and Jesus stated what faith is, while Paul and James tell you HOW to use said faith.
Scripture says otherwise.
The kingdom of heaven is WITHIN YOU.
And again,
Pro 4:20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.
Pro 4:21 Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.
Pro 4:22 For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.
Pro 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
Whether you know it or not, it is the WORD OF GOD ITSELF, that saves us.
The word we receive, act on, and keep in our heart, is what saves us.
We are saved BY THE WORD OF GOD, and said word must be in our hearts, and released or sent forth, out our mouths, verbally, and the WORD OF GOD ITSELF, SAVES US.
We are saved and made the righteousness of God BECAUSE OF the seed/offspring of God, which is His word.
Without said seed/offspring in our heart, we are not or no more saved.
IT IS THE WORD OF GOD ITSELF THAT GIVES US LIFE, FOR IT IS BOTH THE FLESH AND BLOOD OF JESUS.
The blood is made of both blood and water.
The blood of Christ is a spirit/offspring/seed of THE SPIRIT OF GOD, and the water of the blood is the word of God.
The word of God is also the flesh of Jesus.
It is both the flesh and blood of Jesus, and without said word in us, we have no life in us.
We are told that we must both eat and drink Jesus' flesh and blood, respectively, or we have no life in us.
And how do we eat and drink Jesus' flesh and blood?
We do so by coming to him and receiving God's promised savior through the word we hear.
1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Thayer Definition:
1) to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction
1a) one (from injury or peril)
1a1) to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health
1b1) to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue
1b) to save in the technical biblical sense
1b1) negatively
1b1a) to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment
1b1b) to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance
Strong's definition:
From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, “safe”); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.
1) to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction
1a) one (from injury or peril)
1a1) to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health
1b1) to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue
1b) to save in the technical biblical sense
1b1) negatively
1b1a) to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment
1b1b) to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance
Strong's definition:
From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, “safe”); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.
Most of what you said goes fine with what I said about salvation being external. We become a new creation but it is not through our own actions but through the working of God.
The question is one of merit because it seems as if you're preaching a form of self-salvation in other posts, less so in this one. Whether faith is a possession or an action word the saving value of it does not come from within us but is entirely dependent on God.
So are you trying to say your works of faith are earning you your salvation?
The question is one of merit because it seems as if you're preaching a form of self-salvation in other posts, less so in this one. Whether faith is a possession or an action word the saving value of it does not come from within us but is entirely dependent on God.
So are you trying to say your works of faith are earning you your salvation?
It's not God I place limits on. Verses have to be understood within their context to derive meaning from them, and the context of 4:13 is a discussion of how Paul has learned to live according to God's provision. The strength he receives from Christ is the strength of perseverence, not some sort of mystical borrowed omnipotence.